1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Had some difficult times over the last few weeks culminating in having to get Police assistance to find Jean who had wndered off, dressed but in carpet slippers.

    They managed to locate her in someone's house about a mile and a half away. She was in a very distressed condition as well as being worn out from the walk.

    I have pushed my case with the Social Services and got the usual reply that, because she is under 65 there are no daycare centres which will take her for a few hours a day whilst I am at work.

    They did, however, tell me about a voucher scheme whereby I can receive funding to appoint my own carer for so many hours a week.

    The Social worker who is dealing with my case openly admits that, if I were to take this up, I would be traiblazing for the Doncaster area as no one else appears to be on this system and that he, the Social Worker, had no idea how the system works.

    Does anyone have any experience of this system or know of anyone in the Doncaster area who is actually using the system, this latter because I have learned to check everything Soc. Serv people tell me.?

    The other thing he said is that each area may have different variations of the system and that what applies in one area may not necessarily apply in others.
     
  2. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Perhaps I should rephrase the first sentence to "fully dressed but shod in carpet slippers".
     
  3. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,722
    Kent
    Dear Grommit,

    So sorry it`s come to this.

    Have you thought of phoning the AS helpline, 0800 300 0366 they are open till 6.30 p.m. They may be able to clarify the system.

    Love xx

    P.S. sorry it`s too late for today, but they operate from 8.30 a.m.
     
  4. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Grommit, thanks for the rephrase, I was worried!

    I'm sorry you've been having a bad time, I missed you.

    I don't know about the voucher scheme, but it may be a variant of direct payments. If so, Norman is the one to help you, he has lots of experience, and actually gives talks on it. If you do a search on direct payment I'm sure you'll find some of his posts.

    Sorry I can't be more help, but it sounds as if it would be worth investigating. I hope you manage to get something sorted out soon.

    Love,
     
  5. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hello Grommit, Hazel beat me to it, was going to say 'Direct Payments'.

    Even with DP some SW really have no idea how the system works. I have only today taken all the info I gleaned from a Counsel & Care meeting into my local AS office (for reference)

    Do hope you manage to get something sorted out.

    Here, in this area, we managed to get one of the local centres for the elderly, to take under 65's for just one day a week on a trial period. That was 4 years ago.

    Today, we still only have one centre, serving 50 mile radius, fully coping for one day a week.

    Do try the Direct Payment route, if that is what is being offered.
     
  6. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Thanks Connie. I think you might be right about direct payments rather than vouchers. I think those are for respite and not for employment of someone to sit.

    I will keep posting as i go down this road as it may be of some help to others on the whys and wherefores of the scheme.
     
  7. fearful fiona

    fearful fiona Registered User

    Apr 19, 2007
    723
    London
    Dear Grommit,

    I missed you too! I can't be much help on the practical side but I really do hope you get something sorted out asap. Being under 65? How ridiculous is that, surely if the need if there, it's there.

    Best of luck, I shall be thinking of you both.

    Much love
     
  8. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Grommit

    As you know I'm in the wrong part of the country to be of any practical help, just wanted to send you a hug, and I hope you get some help soon.

    Lots of love

    Cate xxxx
     
  9. Petrus

    Petrus Registered User

    Aug 7, 2007
    61
    Northumberland
    Direct Payments: A Positive Story

    Grommit,
    Like others, I believe that you are into the Direct Payments system. It covers all sorts of help, not just respite. From a government web site ( http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CaringForSomeone/MoneyMatters/DG_10018517 ) in answer to the questions What are Direct Payments For?

    "Direct payments can be used to buy services from an organisation or employ somebody to provide assistance. As a carer, you can use a direct payment to purchase the services you are assessed as needing to support you in your caring role. This includes support that may help maintain your health and well-being. For example, driving lessons or a holiday so you can have time to yourself.

    If you are assessed as needing domestic help, you may ask for a direct payment and buy the support services you need."

    My wife's (J.) Care Manager phoned me earlier today to say that she has just got approval on my behalf for a Direct Payment for respite care and another for 2 weekly visits each for 2 hours to give me a break (J. is under 65).

    The process for me was that the Care Manager, after arranging for a wide series of checks that I could do what I said and fully look after J. (cooking, house work, washing etc.) asked me how Social Services could best help me. At that time (summer), I honestly did not know. She arranged for someone in her group to take J. out twice a week over a couple of months to add to the already available assessment info. (from the consultant and the weekly memory clinic which J. attended for 9 months until she could no longer cope).

    Social Services and the medics (consultant and GP) talked and came to me with the recommendation to plan for respite before Christmas and to have someone take J. out regularly (simply for a change for her and a break for me). Their combined thinking is that J. is living at a performance level way above her measured cognition level and they ascribe this to a combination of her innate intelligence (effect well known in the literature) and my care for her (a lovely tribute; also supported by a recently published major piece of research from the US). They want this to continue for as long as possible, even though the consultant tells me that, with J. having rapid on-set AD, the most probable prognosis is that J. will need an EMI unit care within the next 6 months or so (and I have worked with our son over the past 3 months or so on all the necessary planning for this).

    The Social Services support implied in the Direct Payment is helpful in a key practical way - it puts me into the top tier of waiting lists for a bed for respite and a visitor (since Social Services do not have one spare, they have arranged with the local Age Concern office for one of their visitors to take the responsibility).

    The systems can work - and in my experience usually do!!
     
  10. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Thanks Petrus. You're a star. Have made a note of the site and will download and print it off tomorrow at work as i have no printer here.

    Thanks also Cate and Fiona for the good wishes.
     
  11. katherine

    katherine Registered User

    Sep 5, 2006
    57
    Hello Grommit
    Quite recently we got the OK for direct payments to pay for my mum's care at home. Now all her care is funded by the Social Services via direct payments and the independent living fund. Mum has 24 hour care.
    The whole thing is means tested - so if you have savings this will effect it, but whatever your financial situaion absolutely go for it. It's hard to set up as you have to employ carers yourself and you have to manage the finances, but once it's set up it works very well. We now employ 4 carers who are lovely. Mum lives in Gloucestershire and they have a trust called 'The Penderels Trust' who help with employing people, accounts, payroll and contracts so there is very little you have to do in the end. (I think Penderels are a countrywide thing) If you do get the money make sure that you get put in touch with someone like that who can help you. As for getting the money, just push, push, push for it. Don't take no for an answer - and make a strong case for yourself and your wife. Good luck - it's really worth the effort - be a trail blazer...
    Kate x
     
  12. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Thanks Katherine. I downloaded the info from the Gov Direct website.

    As usual it gives a half paragraph of who is entitled to it and a full paragraph to who is not entitled to it.

    The main point of interest to me was the fact that members of the immediate family cannot recieve payment from me. It does not explain who the immediate family is.

    Presumably, wife and kids but does it extend to brothers/sisters/sisters in law?

    Who interprets the word "immediate" and what criteria do they use?

    This is particularly relevant in my case because it is my nearly retired brother who has offered to help.
     
  13. Petrus

    Petrus Registered User

    Aug 7, 2007
    61
    Northumberland
    Immediate Family

    Grommit,
    At one point it looked likely that my sister would be able to take my wife (J.) for respite breaks. I was working with my care manager to get direct payment funding to help pay for this. In the event, family circumstances for my sister have changed and it is no longer possible for her to do it.

    The Care Manager had told me that the meaning of "immediate" was purposely vague to give the LA leeway to support those upright citizens who deserved support and to protect themselves from those of a dubious disposition. (My phraseology is much more diplomatic than the one she used). She felt sure the Direct Payments Team (especially including the finance officer) would agree with her that I was upright. (It may also be important that the monetary award to me would have been low - means testing).
     
  14. katherine

    katherine Registered User

    Sep 5, 2006
    57
    Grommit
    I don't think your brother would be termed immediate family. I think it may just be a partner or parents of the person who is ill. I know that myself or brother could be paid. The only thing is you have to set up a trust to have direct payments if the person they re for isn't well enough to manage the money themselves - and you need three trustees. One has to be independent and so not family (although they will bend the rules on this if desperate). All trustees aren't allowed to be paid. Myself and my brother are trustees so we can't be paid for the hours we do - SO... as long as your brother isn't a trustee it should be fine for him to be a carer. Obviously check all that but i'm pretty sure i'm right....
    good luck with it
    katherine x
     
  15. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
  16. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Thank you Norman. It does to some extent and I will pursue this further with the links on the site you have sent me.

    I thank you very much for your time and expertise in this matter.
     
  17. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Just a quick update.

    I have downloaded the Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council document on Direct Payments all 83 pages of it.

    As far as I can see it gives useful information but does not answer many of the questions which I need to ask inter alia:-

    1) Can I employ a retired person to care for Jean.
    2) How will that affect their pension rights and benefits if I do?
    3) What scales of payments are available.
    4) What criteria is used when making assessments of my self and Jean. i.e who is holding the book of rules and why can't I see it?

    All the document keeps telling me is that "your local Council will inform you " of this that or the other.

    Sorry, but that will not do for me. I have little faith in councils and even less in the Social Services.

    I want to know which hymn book they are singing from so that I can properly prepare for any meetings that are held and be in a position counteract any moves they may make to back out of or withold information which I should be party to.

    Bruce or any moderator can you please tell me if the Alzheimers society has any special section that deals with this sort of thing.

    The document i have have cites the Alzheimers Society and the Independent Living Association as being the most likely places to get assistance.
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Grommit I think the answers are as follows
    1) Yes, with the close relative proviso
    2) See here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/PensionsAndRetirement/MoneyInRetirement/DG_10014663 that covers emplyment after retirement
    3) and 4) though I'm not going to make a stab at, since it all depends on your personal cicumstances AND the going rate for care in your community. I will offer this tidbit though: when I was looking at this for my mother the maximum her LA would have paid was the maximum the LA would have charged to provide the care themselves. There was a massive difference between what they would have charged and what it would have actually cost, and she wasn't eligible anyway, but I did note that major discrepancy.
     
  19. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    Grommit
    a thought ,all areas do not have voucher schemes.
    Birmingham does not have them at present.
    A stupid question, does Doncaster have them?
    Norman
     
  20. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    2,127
    Doncaster
    Thanks Jennifer I will certainly make a note of that one.

    Thanks again Norman. Doncaster does have a voucher system and a drirect payments but no one seems to be using it according the social worker attached to my case.

    Im fact he openly admitted thathe was aware of its existence but had no idea haow it worked..

    I am trying to get myself out of the blind leading the blind scenario and believe that somewhere there is a document, created by Government, that all Councils are using as a base line for their deliberations.

    Is the Direct payment controlled by a fund which is allocaterd to each Council?

    If so what are the fund rules on allocation? If it is a fund, how big (orsmall)is it?

    I think I can feel a letter to my MP coming on.
     

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