The Lack Of Care In Hospitals Now

jayne-b

Registered User
Sep 7, 2009
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Staffs
Jayne I agree entirely about people being left lying in damp beds...or in wheelchairs for too long....food being left out of reach...not cut up when a patient is unable to do it for themselves...it is wrong....and we all should do all that we can to improve care.


There are things that can be improved....but even with excellent care, accidents will still happen. People with dementia become unsteady on their feet, lose depth perception, become confused. We all know accidents will happen...because they have happened to so many of us in our own homes whilst caring. As I said earlier, if a person is prone to falling the only way to ensure that they dont is to drug them, or restrain them...neither option is acceptable to me.

Just my opinion.
Amy

Amy thank you, this is the reason I now ask people to look around them in a hospital environment and make comment, not everyone subjected to poor care has someone to speak up for them, even those that do can sometimes feel unable to make complaint because it can cause unwanted friction in an already stressful situation.

Yes accidents are accidents, proper after care, when that accident happens while in your care would be a good step forward.

jxx
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
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Hi again Ladywriter,

I think some people with dementia are on specific EMI wards, but people with dementia also get things like your dad with his broken hip, or gynae problems or cancers...so need to be on those specialist acute wards.

It must be so hard for you to see dad as he is. He is going to need your help to help him rehabilitate. The physio will give him instructions on how to mobilise; have you asked if you can be present when he sees the physio, or if you can speak to the physio, so that you understand what dad needs to be doing?

I know what you mean about 'blanking out'... thats how I coped with it....never looked back to how my mum had been when she was well...just loved her as she was at that moment in time...to look back was too painful.

I hope that your dad makes a good recovery....please keep us informed.

Amy
 

piedwarbler

Registered User
Aug 3, 2010
7,189
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South Ribble
In my experience, it's the things like taking blood pressure. I have seen nurses taking BPs of patients on geri wards just going round wordlessly... for some of these patients, who don't have visitors, that is the only human contact they have all day, ... would it hurt to say hello, how are you?, ... I saw a nurse pulling off the BP cuffs one handed, so that she wouldn't have to use both hands... that's uncomfy for people like my mum who are all stiff with MS... it's the basics, treating people like people, not lumps.

Or, giving food to people wrapped in cling, that the patient can't remove, orange juice in little cartons with foil tops that weak patients haven't the strength to remove... I wouldn't like to be vulnerable and in hospital from the care I have witnessed...
 

ellejay

Registered User
Jan 28, 2011
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Essex
When my mum was in hospital having broken her arm, she was given a cup with a lid for safety.Unfortunately they didn't think how she would get the lid off to refill it!
On her chart the nurse noted the canula was in her left arm. It was her left arm that was broken and the canula was actually in her right arm. When my niece pointed this mistake out, the nurse said it wasn't important. My niece insisted it WAS important and the nurse got stroppy and said "Just put the notes back where you found them!!"
Doesn't inspire confidence :( Lin x
 

maryw

Registered User
Nov 16, 2008
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Surrey
In my experience, it's the things like taking blood pressure. I have seen nurses taking BPs of patients on geri wards just going round wordlessly... for some of these patients, who don't have visitors, that is the only human contact they have all day, ... would it hurt to say hello, how are you?, ... I saw a nurse pulling off the BP cuffs one handed, so that she wouldn't have to use both hands... that's uncomfy for people like my mum who are all stiff with MS... it's the basics, treating people like people, not lumps.

Or, giving food to people wrapped in cling, that the patient can't remove, orange juice in little cartons with foil tops that weak patients haven't the strength to remove... I wouldn't like to be vulnerable and in hospital from the care I have witnessed...

In the 5 weeks my Mum was in hospital I witnessed similar episodes. I think Pied has hit on one .... WORDLESS !! Treating the elderly like lumps.... Not people who have lived interesting lives, given loads back to their society and now just wish to be treated with compassion and kindness in their time of vulnerability. On my Mum's ward a lot of the nurses were hard, dismissive, rude and arrogant. There was one who was wonderful, gentle, kind, compassionate, spent time with the elderly reassuring them. And the elderly knew that and loved her, hated the others! She had a vocation, the others did it for money.....
 

jayne-b

Registered User
Sep 7, 2009
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Staffs
Completely agree with you Pied and Mary, after witnessing Mom's treatment and lack of regard for the person she was I handed out a lot of copies of "Crabbit Old Woman", something I read over 20 years ago and had such an impact I kept a copy all that time.

jxx
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
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I know where you are all coming from....but do you realise how demoralising it is for those who do their best, to only ever feel that they are being criticised?:( But I remember in the past complaining about why TV news was always bad, and someone said when it is good news that is the exception and has to be reported...then it is a sad day.
Amy
 

maryw

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Nov 16, 2008
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Surrey
Dear Amy, I have just praised the nurse who took time and was gentle with my mother. Unfortunately she was outnumbered by about 4-5 others who would have been better suited to the role of prison warder than nurse, and that on an elderly dementia ward!! That is just not right and I hope people like you inspire better behaviour in those who do not have compassion.
 

Soobee

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Aug 22, 2009
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South
When you are visiting a person in hospital, the last thing you want to be doing is to have to keep asking for help, keep asking for information, etc. You can only fight some battles and I never did complain about any of the stuff I've seen because I did not have the energy to do so at the time.

Now I want to make it different, but how? I have seen that our local hospital is looking for volunteers to sit and talk to elderly patients and to feed them. I understand that this needs doing but surely this is vital healthcare, essential to patient recovery. Not an extra to be done by unpaid volunteers. What do you think?

In five different wards I saw so much variation in care and support - what was common to all was a lack of communication with the patient's family when they were aware the patient had dementia and couldn't necessarily tell us herself what was going on.
 

maryw

Registered User
Nov 16, 2008
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Surrey
Now I want to make it different, but how? I have seen that our local hospital is looking for volunteers to sit and talk to elderly patients and to feed them. I understand that this needs doing but surely this is vital healthcare, essential to patient recovery. Not an extra to be done by unpaid volunteers. What do you think?

In five different wards I saw so much variation in care and support - what was common to all was a lack of communication with the patient's family when they were aware the patient had dementia and couldn't necessarily tell us herself what was going on.

Agree with you totally Soobee. I too am thinking how I can help to make changes. Spending time sitting and feeding the elderly is one such thing; I too think about this, but could not bring myself to go back on that same ward AT THE MOMENT. Agree with you that this is what care should be about, but with current lack of money, it's not looking good.

I cannot get it out of my head that somehow or other somebody or other could give better training to nursing staff on how to communicate with the patient's relative or carer, rather than brushing them aside. This has to have advantages for the patient and therefore for the hospital in promoting an earlier discharge. You have prompted me to follow this up with a management consultant friend, ex local councillor who has a large interest in the community, to see if he has any ideas... Just a small idea ...
 

Amy

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Jan 4, 2006
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Hi Soobee,

Sounds a good idea to go in and talk with older patients and to help at mealtimes. Nursing staff already do those things, but with limited resources and an ever increasing aging population, and an increasing number of people with dementia, volunteers are always going to be welcome.

Amy
 

Ladywriter1968

Registered User
Oct 2, 2009
438
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London UK
Try to reply to all messages here

Hi Everyone,

Read all your comments and its interesting, I will try from memory to address all the things discussed if I can. Maybe also a good way of improving my memory for exercise rather then replying individually. Just a thought.

As for them asking for volunteers to go and feed patients, although this may be a good idea, but in other ways not, would these volunteers be vetted before doing this? Otherwise any old Tom Dick or Harry could go in there and if they have issues themselves could actually end up causing more harm to the patient. Not everybody has caring skills. When the nurse said I could feed my Dad which I had never done before, as I have no children, I wasn't sure how much to give him or nothing. and then thought, what if I hurt him with the fork or something in his mouth so was a bit nervous of doing this at first to be honest.

I got used to doing it. But volunteers coming in and doing this, they should remember, they are not the volunteers parents so they may not be so considerate with a stranger. It angers me that this country is paying out lots of money to help other countries, when sorry, but charity begins at home. What about our elderly people here. Plus also volunteers that have never been around dementia patients may not know how to respond to them and respond wrong or something.

These are Dads conditions.
Heart disease, bleed to the brain. Dementia. Back trouble, Macular degeneration in his eyes, he had skin grafting years ago when he was young and was burned with tar. Skin grafting on his body, He had a hernia quite a few years ago as well. And now this hip operation. So he has been through a lot really over the years. Trying to think if I left anything out on this part.

My Mother died when I was 16 myself and I am only child so makes it even harder really. My Mother was also very sick and when I reached 10 she had a nasty stroke and got worse over time, she would pass out and collapse and I would have to deal with it as a child, as my Father was always at work. So life has not exactly been a bundle of laughs for me really, but I just learned to get on with it. Cause I really had no choice.

Plus I live quite far from him as well. Have an unsupported family as well his side. They don't really care. Put it this way, my cousin was rowing with me on FB about really stupid things when my Dads in hospital which she knows, I said to her, not once have you even asked how he is you selfish cow.

He originally was living in a care home before he went into hospital, he fell in his room at the care home and broke his hip, thats how it all started. The hospital is a long way away from where I live so its not easy and cant visit him every day as cant afford the travel costs. But my uncle lives near the hospital so we take it in turns.

When Dad first went in I got to speak to the doctor, which is rare these days, but thats cause I go before visiting hours which is late in afternoon and I told them I cant come that late from my distance so I come in the morning which helps them as I can help Dad to eat his dinner then, which saves them having to do this. The doctor told me about his broken hip and his concerned of Dads other illnesses and the affects of this. He was very good to explain all. I have only met one or two nurses on Dads ward so cant comment on their performance, but the ones I have seen are friendly enough. I told nurse my Dad couldn't feel his hand and she came over and looked at it, he has just been laying on it really.

But I do feel they need to keep a better eye on dementia patients though and also understand they are short staffed. I cant be there all the time to check stuff like spilt tea on his blanket, or stop him from trying to walk off and stuff like that. or to feed him. He already only weighed 8st.7lbs when he was in the care home but they were gradually getting him to eat more, but now he in hospital his weight will probably drop even lower. And the size of the meals are very very small as well. It would not even fill up a child. I thought of taking food in there but he probably would not eat it. My friend took him some fruit juice in. They say to me, he is managing to eat himself but if this is so true, why is it when I have visited him he has struggled to use the knife and fork then? Is it a cover up to make me think he is managing or something.

Once he ok and ready to leave, I dont know whats going to happen, whether he will be able to return back to the care home now as if they can meet his needs or whether he will need a nursing home. It would be good if he can return back there as he was settled in there, keep moving him to new strange places will mess up his head even worse.

I think I have covered stuff here. any more comments welcome
 
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Ladywriter1968

Registered User
Oct 2, 2009
438
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London UK
It keeps happening

Hospital rang and he fell again, she said even when he in bed with the bars up he climbs over them. He was not this bad at the care home, I guess cause out of his comfort zone, he said to them, I am ready to leave now. He will be in there forever at this rate if he keeps falling.
 

Amy

Registered User
Jan 4, 2006
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Sadly many elderly people become disorientated by hospital...even when they haven't been diagnosed with dementia. Bars on the bed lead to difficulty because people do climb over them, or they get their legs trapped between the bars and the bed.
How has your dad been today?
Amy
 

kezzie

Registered User
Nov 5, 2010
18
0
You could try meeting with the ward manager or the matron or your dad's consultant and suggest that, as your father has had repeated falls and is at high risk of further serious injury, they need to 'special' him. This would mean a member of staff would remain with him all the time.

Hospital bed rail policies state that if a patient is confused and able to climb over the bed rails they should not be used - falling from the top of a rail just increases the risk of injury.

The alternatives are alarmed bed and chair pads that alert staff if the patient is trying to get up, 'extra low' beds that lower right down to the floor so that the patient cannot hurt themselves if they climb off the bed (without rails), or 'specialing'.

And i'm afraid it's the old 'squeaky wheel' thing. The patients who get these services tend to be the ones with the 'pushy' (in the nicest sense!) relatives...
 
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manningt

Registered User
Feb 25, 2011
6
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london
Hi to all yes there are such things as alarms that can be put on a chair or bed although speaking from experience they are costly!! have only ever seen this being used once as a trial its all well and good although if there arent enough staff to manage the ward it defeats the object altogether, also that if a patient is at risk of falls and they are even trying to climb out of the bed they should be specialed meaning that the patient should recieve one to one care even though it will be paid extra out of the ward budget it will long term be less costly than any legal affairs, this is called neglect :mad: unfortunatly the nhs are trying to cut down on soo much now the main people who suffer are our patients, staffing levels on an elderly care ward esp wards with dementia patients should have extra staff, i personally find that this is very stressful on nurses and the care carried out is not sufficient, oohh i could go on and on in any hospital enviroment the patient is from the wotd go institutionalised to fit into the ward routine og which is far from what thje patient is used to feel soo out of my depth i am a nurse working in elderly rehab i treat my patients as i would expect to be treated, some days i leave my shift knowing that ive done all i can in my power to care for my patients, other days i leave feeling absolutly :mad::eek::( that even with doing all i can possibly do its not enough, so frustrated i have got to get out of this ward based care and do community nursing in a patients own enviroment cant take much more of this **** sorry i love caring for my patients but it also takes an exellent team and good communication yes bloody communicaton with your staff with your patients with your patients family in elderly care it is not just your patients your caring for it is also their family why cant some people have more compassion err .
 

piedwarbler

Registered User
Aug 3, 2010
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South Ribble
I think that is the key thing you have said manning, you care for your patients as you would wish to be cared for. Sadly I do not feel that all health professionals take the same view.
 

kezzie

Registered User
Nov 5, 2010
18
0
A lot of it comes down to leadership. You need to have a ward manager who is prepared to be unpopular (where necessary) with some of their ward staff and with higher managment in order to ensure a high standard of care. Someone who doesn't just avoid issues in order to keep the peace.

Unfortunately, ward managers are not always well selected or well trained or properly supported and many will try to avoid upsetting any of their staff and are also easily bullied by their own managers.
 

Ladywriter1968

Registered User
Oct 2, 2009
438
0
London UK
hi everyone

My Dad is doing ok today. He is still waiting for a bed at the other hospital so he can have his physio, this seems to be taken forever really. Its simply crazy.

The nurse did say they may assign a nurse to him all the time if he keeps falling. But I don't think they have enough staff there to do that really from what I have seen on the ward. A man in opp bed to Dad shouted out, what do I have to do to get a paper around here, and my husband gave the man his paper cause the nurses were around the other side and didn't hear him. The man said thanks to my husband. The other patients in Dads ward seem to have left now yet my Dad is still there and went in after them. Accept for the one opp Dads bed they look ill.

I am not keen on that hospital but thats where the patients in Dads area go to as the other one the A and E has closed down now. and the one slightly further out that hospital has closed down completely now I was told.

My Dad is a wanderer when he in hospital thats the trouble, yet when he was in the care home you had to try to get him out of bed some times.

I really dont know what the answer is any more as I get no help from any family, they simply do not care about him. If Dad was rich be a different story, they would all crawl out of the wood work like worms then. I live quite far away to.

I just wish that this could be all over and that he can return to the care home as everything was ok then. But I aint even sure now if he will be able to or not. He is in a completely different borough to me.

When I visit him I have to get two trains and then 2 buses to the hospital. If the trains are not running I cant get there, and family will not come and pick me up either. They cant even be bothered to pick me up from the station at that end and drop me at the hospital to save me paying out even more money on buses when I get off the trains at that end. So I had to cut down going because I simply did not have the money to keep it up. So now I visit weekend or once in the week, thats all I can afford.
 
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grobertson62

Registered User
Mar 7, 2011
581
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Sheffield
so sorry to hear about your dads fall I do hope he is recovering & getting the care he so richly deserves

I would just like to say not all hospitals are bad, not all wards are bad.
dad has just had 10 weeks on a ward & the staff could not have been better, they kept him on the same ward & in the same bed for the entire 10 weeks, knowing that to move him would just add to his confusion, They had support workers on the ward & one was assigned to dad to keep an eye on him as he was prone to wander.
did feel sorry for her as he must have walked her miles, this was better than them resorting to drugging him to ensure he stayed in one place

I do feel sorry for nursing staff they have a hard job to do & are often under staffed . Not their fault



Gill