1. Wolfsgirl

    Wolfsgirl Registered User

    Well done Poll glad to hear you didn't have time to dwell on it and agonise over it with her!

    Your poor Dad lots of tlc I think! It is early days yet so he will I hope, eventually understand that it is for her best as there will be fitter people to help her with her needs.

  2. carastro

    carastro Registered User

    May 7, 2012
    Can't offer any advice other than what you have ultimately done and that is "only until Dad's well enough". The sad thing with dementia is although she will fight for a while, as her dementia gets worse, the fight will lessen. As stated you can re-cycle the fibs.

    When my mum went into a CH I didn't even had the stepping stone of hospital to CH route, so it was extremely hard to get her into care. I found with experience that it upsets them less to tell white lies rather than the truth which will upset them. Often a "ok but not today" answer can pacify.

    Keep you own strength up. How fortunate that your mum already knows some of the other residents.

  3. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    SW London
    This is it, isn't it? So many of them simply will never believe it, so the fibs are the lesser of two evils. You just say whatever will make things a mite easier at the time.

    I do hope the next few weeks will not be too traumatic for you all.
  4. leedsfan

    leedsfan Registered User

    Apr 1, 2012
    Oh Poll, just logged onto here for my daily look at whats happening and was compeled to read your thread.

    My heart goes out to you it really does. You have done, and are doing an amazing job.

    Hope in time things settle for all of you, please let us know how you go on.

    Take care of yourself too.

  5. poll1

    poll1 Registered User

    Jun 15, 2009
    You're all very kind.

    Took a day off yesterday - at least, stayed at home, doing laundry and running errands, picking up a few bits & pieces that Mum's going to need, rather than visiting. They live about an hour and a half from me and the care home is local to Dad rather than to here. By the sounds of it, though, Mum had quite a good day; she spent the morning in one of the lounges (surprising - suspect much encouragement from staff!) and in the afternoon she had a number of visitors, so held court in her room. It was hard not to ring, but I didn't. We know and trust this home and part of the process, I guess, is letting go and allowing the staff to get on with their job.

    Back up the road today. Hope she isn't too upset by seeing me.
  6. poll1

    poll1 Registered User

    Jun 15, 2009
    Oh dear. Disasterous visit yesterday. Mum seemed calm and settled, chatting to other residents when I arrived but quickly began raging at me to take her home. I ended up having to walk out on her, because there was a meeting with the SW at Dad's yesterday afternoon, too, and she wouldn't let me leave.

    Very afraid that her behaviour will be too difficult for the residential staff to manage. There's a review on 13 May, so we'll find out more then. In the meantime, today I'll ring her GP (who has been lovely and very helpful) to discuss her medication and see whether anything can be prescribed to take the edge off her agitation.

    It's so sad. I pushed for a dementia diagnosis in the hope that the right medication might mean she and dad could have a little more time together - but while the donapezil certainly gave her more energy it also seems to have made her unmanageably confrontational. Or is it just the natural progression of the disease? There's no way of knowing unless she comes off it and we see what happens.
    The other dilemma is visiting - she's been ok with other visitors, but family (ie me, because dad's still ill) is clearly a trigger She has high blood pressure and a history of TIAs and I'm genuinely afraid that when I visit she becomes so upset that she might have a stroke.

    I'm beginning to find some empathy for all those 'dreadful, heartless people who dump their relatives in care homes and never go anywhere near them again.'

    I miss my mum.
  7. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    West Midlands
    It's still early days.

    It's so horrible when you are ranted at for being cruel and the demands to be taken home get so out of hand.

    I think you did the right thing. Walked away. Doesn't feel the right thing to do, but I would guess its only you she is going to rant and rail at - hopefully not for too long.

    You are the "safe person" she can rage at. I'm sure the staff will have had experience of this type of behaviour and will know how to deal with it.

    Thinking of you
  8. 1954

    1954 Registered User

    Jan 3, 2013
    I agree that you are probably the 'trigger' for rage. Unfortunately it is often the nearest and dearest that it is aimed at. Its very difficult but you need to just walk away when she starts.

    Thinking of you

    Kairen x
  9. Ding Dong

    Ding Dong Registered User

    May 1, 2013
    When I read "I'm now worried that she may be so uncooperative during the pre-admission assessment to the new home that they may refuse to take her" it reminded me of when my mum first went into care.

    She has Vascular dementia with Alzheimers and became very angry and frustrated when the disease really began to affect her ability to cope at home. My dad was in his 80's and had his own medical problems including diabetes and going blind with macular degeneration. He could not really accept that she was unable to function and felt she was being lazy and difficult. I felt like a ping pong ball between them, but tried to keep my mum at home. Eventually the frustrations on both sides erupted and when my dad got cross with my mum she attacked my dad with her fingernails. As he was blind, she drew blood, so she was put in care as an emergency.

    When she first went into the home she was very angry and pushed plates of food off the table, slammed doors etc. It took a couple of months to settle down and was very hard for me to watch. I feel so sorry for what you are coping with, but I knew we could not go on at home and she did settle and her previous life at home did fade from her mind. I kept taking her treats, kept reminding her how nice it was not having to wahup, hoover, iron, etc while she was on her "holiday". She got a lot of comfort from a large cuddly sheep I bought her. (She called it Cuddles).

    It is very hard, but it did get better.
  10. poll1

    poll1 Registered User

    Jun 15, 2009
    Thank you everybody. It's hard, but its comforting to know that others have pushed on through this and find that either it gets easier or you get used to it.

    Dithering today. I want to visit but my visits send her into a rage, which can't be good for a person with high blood pressure and a history of TIAs. The home have advised my dad not to phone for a little while for the same reason.

    I just don't know what to do for the best.
  11. Aquamanda

    Aquamanda Registered User

    Jan 8, 2012
    Just wanted to pick up on something you said earlier about feeling like you were having to choose between your parents. Honestly, you have not made a bad choice for one parent, you must think of it as making the best choice for both of your parents.
    Instead of visiting would it be possible to have a conversation with her on the phone; then if she gets really cross you could quickly terminate the conversation.
    Also, if you feel she will rant when she sees you, could you make sure she is maybe in her room at the time you visit, so she is not in a public area if that is a worry for you, that she will start shouting in front of other residents etc.
    Maybe you could go in just before lunch time for a very short visit so there is something to distract her when you leave?
    Good luck. xx
  12. poll1

    poll1 Registered User

    Jun 15, 2009
    Thanks Dogcrazy. It turns out that today she's already had a rant at my dad on the phone, so I'll go up tomorrow, on the basis that one rant a day is probably enough.

    I'm so, so scared that the home will not be able to cope with her. It has a terrific reputation, we know it well and we were lucky to get her a place there. I feel sick at the thought of having to go back to the drawing board.
  13. CarolS

    CarolS Registered User

    May 4, 2013
    I feel for you

    Reading your issues I am able to take hope that I will be able to cope.
    I have troubled my self with guilt, at the thought of taking the steps of having him in care as there are moments when all seem normal and we have a few hours of please and fun, but it then turns nasty and I feel hurt and lonely.
    My husband threatens to kick me out, change the locks, and says I am having affairs.
    He shouts and thumps the table. He has, to add to his Alzheimer's, bladder cancer.
    My daughter suggested using the hospital stay (to have cancer removed) to move him to a dementia care home to give me a respite, as he too is in denial of this awful illness.
    The operation cannot now go ahead and I have no way of knowing how I can take a respite or how anyone could help me to get him into care. I now believe that the best way is to be up front and tell him he has to cooperate but please tell me how you actually get him out of the house?
  14. longacre

    longacre Registered User

    Feb 17, 2008
    I so feel for you having been through this twice. But I think that, hugely difficult though it is, taking the care homes advice of not visiting until she is more settled is worth thinking about. They are very used to this sort of behaviour and will have seen it hundreds of times before. For all of us it is the first (or second) time only and it is really distressing as well as bringing up all sorts of other emotions. And there often particular dynamics with the family that dont necessarily get exhibited the rest of the time with others in the home. As your mother is a drive away the idea of a short visit may not work but the suggestion of going before a meal of something else happening is one we have used so that there is a distraction at the end of the visit. By the way nowadays, 2.5 years in for my mother, she doesnt bat an eyelid when we leave...nor does she remember that we visited either as I know when sometimes I pop back with something at the weekends after a visit and she greets me as if we haven't met for a lifetime, as well as telling other visitors that we never visit her at all!:)
  15. Aquaria

    Aquaria Registered User

    Dec 10, 2012
    Despite recognising everybody's anguish, for which I am sorry, this complete thread with all the posts has given me some relief by providing valuable information to a problem which has tormented me for such a long time. How do you physically get someone into a CH against their will especially when you know they are so independent that they will fight against it to the point of aggression?
    For some reason I thought everyone managed to get their loved ones to "accept" the situation reluctantly or that they "were not aware" and became passive.
    I see now that I have even greater guilt, tears and pain ahead of me but at least I can try and be prepared.
  16. CarolS

    CarolS Registered User

    May 4, 2013
    I too have a very independent husband who will not just walk into care. I am seriously worried how I can get him to go. I know he will refuse and tell me to leave him and move on to someone else if I do not want to (as he puts it) put up with my situation .
    Does anyone know how to help as no amount of words will persuade him that I need help.
  17. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    SW London
    I do so feel for you - this is such a difficult situation. Can only say what we did with my mother, and we had 3 problems there: 1) although she was very bad by then, according to her there was absolutely nothing wrong with her, 2) NO WAY would she ever have gone willingly into a CH, and 3) for ages it had been almost impossible to get her out of the house at all.

    It was a case of Valium from the GP (to make her more tractable on the day) followed by lies and deception, i.e. 'We're going for a drive and maybe out for lunch.' No, not nice and not easy, but by then it was the only way. We had to plan it all very carefully, i.e. my sister and bil staying the night before, sister surreptitiously packing some of her things ready to go, etc. My sister and I actually took her (60 mile drive to a CH near my house) brother and BIL followed later with her things. CH had asked us to arrive for lunch, so we all had lunch together (my mother thought it was a restaurant, which startled us, we honestly would have thought she'd have twigged by then ) before my sister broke the news that she was staying. Must admit I wasn't brave enough.

    All the best, I do hope you work something out. Would suggest discarding any stiff upper lip completely and telling GP (for a start) that you simply and absolutely CANNOT cope any more without a break and MUST have help to get him there.
  18. poll1

    poll1 Registered User

    Jun 15, 2009
    I'm going to nip up today, timing the visit for about 3.30. Supper is served at about 5pm, so I'm hoping to make a clean getaway then.

    I'm very sorry for everyone who's at a loss to know how to manage a move to residential care for your relatives. We were in exactly the same position; under no circumstances would my mum have complied, even with the idea of a day centre or a respite break for dad, who no longer had the heart for the fight, tbh. So I used the disruption to routine of the hospital stay to force the change, simply by saying to the SW that care for my mum could no longer be provided at home. I might be wrong, but I think as soon as that's your position, then it becomes a social services problem. Given that Mum had a formal diagnosis of dementia, and my dad's age and his own health issues, nobody batted an eyelid.

    Pep talk from my daughter last night. 'Mum, we're responsible for making sure that Nana's safe and properly cared for. But we can't be responsible for making sure she's happy.' There's a wise head on young shoulders.
  19. Raffles

    Raffles Registered User

    Nov 8, 2008
    North Wales
    Nothing he or I could say soothed her, and of course its practically impossible to train elderly husbands not to argue back.

    With a wry smile I so agree with this statement as an 82 year old with a n 84 year old husband with AD and having been married for 64 years when you know someone so well it is extremely difficult not to argue back. I am always having to bite my tongue.
  20. CarolS

    CarolS Registered User

    May 4, 2013
    Thank you so much Witzend. I assume that once you are in the CH the staff take over and any reluctance to stay on the part of my husband will be controlled by them and he will not be able to stop me from going. I imagine all sorts of scenes and his temper causing staff to say they will not take him.

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