1. MrsChristmas

    MrsChristmas Registered User

    Jun 1, 2015
    Hi there again

    Thank you for that information.

    As I said to you, I have emailed my brother about this and we have had a chat on the phone and he has told me that he had already suggested this to Mum but she refused to have anything to do with it. So back to square one again. My brother is not prepared to take this any further and that Mum should be allowed to live her own life and not be bothered. He says that if an accident occurs and Mum hospitalised or she deteriorates then so be it. He feels that people cannot be forced to do things that they don't want to and that we should only counsel and advise.....

    He has said however, that he will pay for care if needed.

    If you have any other ideas then it would be great to hear them.

    Thank you again for your help and advice.
  2. MrsChristmas

    MrsChristmas Registered User

    Jun 1, 2015
    Hi there Amy

    Just to say that I just spoken to my brother and he says that he has already spoken to Mum about an LPA but she would hear nothing of it. He is reluctant to make Mum do something that she doesn't want to and that if she is comfortable and fed and reasonably happy then he is happy with that. He says her driving is her business, her health is her business and her finances are her business too....

    He will pay for her care, if necessary and will speak to her about going to her GP but that is the most he will do.

    So, back to square one with me fretting over mum.....

    Frustrated and fed up describes how I feel now...

    Thanks for listening

    I hope everything is stable with you.

    Mrs c
  3. Linbrusco

    Linbrusco Registered User

    Mar 4, 2013
    Auckland...... New Zealand
    All very well, when somone is in full possesion of their faculties, but it appears as though your Mum may not?
    I really feel for you Mrs C. Between a rock and a hard place.
    I think if arranging a POA is going to be so difficult, you can only concentrate on the here and now. You say you have emailed your Mums doctor which is a good starting point.
    I woud also email a copy to your brother, and let him know of the outcome.
    Ask him if he wants to be kept in the loop. If he doesn't, then so be it and he can't complain when the going gets difficult. Hard on you though :(

    My Mum has Alzheimers and Dad has cognitive impairment. Thankfully Mum has never driven, and Dad has never owned a car since his last one was stolen 20 yrs ago, and his licence has long expired.
    I had to take over both Mum & Dads medication when Mum was double dosing or forgetting, and Dad was not taking his correctly and with a prostate issue ended up with a severe urinary infection, and was hospitalised for 3 days.
    I had to take over their finances ( which Mum always did) as Mum was sending the wrong cheques in the wrong envelopes, and gave my brother her credit card and PIN who conveniently helped himself to several thousand.

    Thankfully my parents are pretty compliant when my sister and I suggest anything.
    Whether its setting up their POA's, seeing the doctor or attending hospital appts.
    Try getting Dad to pay money for a gardner or any house maintenance its a different story. :rolleyes: They are entitled to home help for cleaning, but refuse.

    Both of them have had blood tests, memory tests, and CT scans.
    Mums CT scan was in better shape than Dads, but she's the one diagnosed with AD :confused:
    They say Dad doesn't have dementia, but sometimes I wonder if he has frontal temporal dementia.. His memory isn't so bad, it's more his behaviours.

    The pair of them together is dynamite :rolleyes::eek:
  4. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    Its such a difficult time, Mrs C. I had exactly the same problem with Mum and had to eventually go for Court of Protection - which is long-winded, much more expensive and (IMO) a whole load of hassle.

    Your brother is burying his head in the sand. BTW - does he know how much care costs? I bet he wont pay for it when the time comes.
  5. marsaday

    marsaday Registered User

    Mar 2, 2012
    Sorry haven't read whole thread from start but does your brother know that getting deputyship will be a whole lot more complicated if you don't get LPA?
    It's all very well him saying he will pay for mum's care but her own money will have to be accessed for her care. Has he really got the spare cash if she needs a care home?
    Sounds like my brothers. Didn't want to be bothered. Stuck their heads in sand and then it was too late and we had to go through courts in the end. My Mum was like yours - Refused and was suspicious so that delayed things. In the end, whether they have capacity or not, some will never agree to it.
  6. marsaday

    marsaday Registered User

    Mar 2, 2012
    Ah Canary beat me to it, saying exactly the same thing:)
  7. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    Ha! Snap marsaday!
  8. Fred Flintstone

    Fred Flintstone Registered User

    Aug 28, 2014
    S. E. England
    Mrs Christmas,

    Does your brother have any idea what the starting price for a private care home is? Enquiries round here show me that a half-way decent care home will want documentary evidence of liquid assets of £45,000 before they will admit a new resident on a purely private basis. I don't even think that's the full cost for a single year.

    Does he know that if your mother had a serious car accident in which someone else was hurt, her own driving insurance company might well consider her uninsured, and attempt to recover third party damages incurred from your mother or her estate?

    I suspect he has thought about neither. He is also unaware of the strain incurred by the sister who is taking day-to-day responsibility for the mother who lives so close.

    From what you say your mother probably has started the process of dementia, of uncertain cause as yet, but very likely she still has legal capacity. One of her offspring is either as yet unbothered or in denial, so the burden falls on the other one.

    This is a set of circumstances that general practitioners must regularly see. Some will prefer to skirt the issue, some will want to help. Could you go and see your mother's GP on her behalf? An e-mail is one thing, but any answer given in writing is much more enduring than cautious hints and significant pauses during a face to face meeting. It might just be a matter of giving the name of someone locally who he thinks will be able to help.

    Do you know your mother's GP, Mrs Christmas? You might even have the same one, living so close.

    Then there is the route involving social workers. I don't know much about this.

    Your brother reminds me of mine, in some respects.

    All I can think of to say just now.

  9. Fred Flintstone

    Fred Flintstone Registered User

    Aug 28, 2014
    S. E. England
    #29 Fred Flintstone, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
    Fred will be fine, Amy, it really will.

    Just as long as you don't confuse your Bedrock in the USA with its namesake in England (which was mentioned in the Doomsday Book, you know).

  10. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    SW London
    Is there anyone she would listen to, who could get a bit tough or forceful with her? My mother's old style P of A was instigated by herself pre dementia. However by the time we needed to activate it - when she was no longer capable of managing her finances and a cheque for £4k had gone missing and been cashed by God knows whom - she got very stroppy and didn't want to do it - accused us all of being after her money.

    But my brother who had always been Golden Boy was able to be very tough - it was 'sign here or else' , and she did, amid a lot of tears and upset, but thank goodness they were very soon forgotten.
    We didn't want to have to get tough, but by then it was the only way - she could not begin to comprehend that she could manage absolutely nothing any more.
  11. MrsChristmas

    MrsChristmas Registered User

    Jun 1, 2015
    Hi Fred, Amy, Lindy50, Marsaday and everyone else too!

    Thank you all for your help, support and advice it has been invaluable.

    I so agree with you Fred F and will arrange an appointment to see one of our GPs this week - you are right we are both at the same surgery but don't often see the same doctors.

    I am reluctant to start contacting SS until I have spoken/and/or heard from our GP in response to my email..if any.

    I did make some headway with Bruv in our conversation yesterday tho...we were talking about Mum driving and I did point out to him that Mum's reactions are slow and that if a child or animal ran out in front of her could she stop in time? Do we wait until she kills someone? And then I finished off by saying that Mum was driving something that would kill or main Mum or someone...I got silence then.....! He is due to make an appearance soon and we've agreed to meet up with Mum BUT he has not committed himself to anything so it may all come to nought...as usual.

    Fred and all you diamonds out there - I have started another thread about the stages of Dementia because I really want to start looking for the signs in Mum. Lindy 50 has been really helpful with her experiences.

    I really noticed things when I my father because ill with cancer at 87 which spread to his brain in 2012. He was the intelligent driver in their relationship and Mum was the follower. I am like my Dad and my brother favours my Mum although he is bright too. Hence I am one driving this thing with Mum and my brother just follows on but puts the breaks on when he doesn't agree, which is so like my Mum. I know my Dad would have supported me in this.

    Anyway, I digress sorry. So when Dad collapsed, Mum just went to pieces and I took over the role of being the 'strong one' and my partner (whom I had only known 6 months at the time) was fantastic and it has been that way ever since. Mum always calls me when there is a problem and absolutely refuses to call on my brother because, she says 'it is so far for him to come and what could he do?' He lives 100 miles away..not the other side of the world.

    My brother says that I do too much for Mum and that takes away her independence but I disagree I think Mum is failing and either disguising it very well when my brother visits or maybe it is just old age.

    What should I be looking for?

    A few years ago Mum and I could chat for hours but not so much now. She is very deaf and does not wait for pauses in conversation when she does talk. We are taking her holiday later this year and both my partner and me have told her many times when and where we are going. Mum will still make me coffee when she knows that I gave it up a year ago. I don't wear glasses any more but she still thinks I do. She cannot grasp direct debits which I manage and struggles to write a cheque. She has good days and bad days. She does not sleep well waking up at 2 and going back to sleep at 5 and sleeping in 8 9 in the morning.

    Thank you again for listening.

    Mrs C

    Sorry if I have rambled on
  12. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    Mrs C, you needn't apologise here for "rambling on." This is a safe place to come and vent about whatever is bothering you at any time.

    It's great that you brought up the driving issue with your brother. Perhaps he is beginning to be able to listen to you. I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I spent, worrying about my mother driving and killing/injuring someone or herself, or starting a fire in her condo (do you have condominiums in the UK?) and killing the neighbours or herself (young children in the upstairs unit directly over my mother's unit, and a disabled, bed-bound neighbor upstairs and across the hall). I could never have lived with myself if, through my inaction, something had happened. I'd be quite happy to tell your brother that myself if he'd care to ring me!

    Sorry, digressed a bit there. Anyway, the point is that I know you must worry about these issues and good for you for plugging away at it.

    I also know that with my mother's dementia, yes, in early days she was VERY able to "put up a good front" or "put a good face on" and be very convincing that she was fine. She can still do this to some degree, but looking back, I can see a pattern. She would do this for visits with me, social events, and especially trips to the doctor. She would be very "on" and appropriate with the doctor, but the minute we'd leave the exam room after the appointment was over, she would just sort of collapse. It must have been a tremendous strain on her.

    So I do think it's quite possible that your brother is not seeing what you are seeing, and maybe not just because he doesn't want to, although that's clearly happening. One of the hospital nurses told me that dementia patients can be very skilled at "covering up" their dementia and that certain social skills, or the veneer at any rate, can stay intact well into the advance of the dementia. For example, until recently, my mother could go into a restaurant or the bank or the drugstore (I think I mean chemist?) and seem perfectly normal to the staff--but only on a "hello, I'd like some coffee, thank you" level. So your mother may be able to interact with your brother in a seemingly "normal" way and he may be missing (intentionally or otherwise) the more subtle signs that you are seeing, if that makes any sense?

    Definitely pursue the GP visit and good for you!
  13. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
  14. Fred Flintstone

    Fred Flintstone Registered User

    Aug 28, 2014
    S. E. England
  15. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    Yes, my mum can put on a good front for others too.
    When mum was in her care home and started to not know who I was I bullied my brother into going to visit her as I was afraid that he would leave it too late and she wouldnt know who he was. I must add that he had not been to visit her for several years before that, so he had not seen her since she had got dementia.

    He went and visited her and I spoke to her later afterwards. She told me that 2 men had been to visit her and she didnt know who they were. I knew that one of them had been my brother, but didnt know who the other one was. I phoned my brother the next day and asked him how mum was when he saw her. He said emphatically that she was perfectly OK, knew who he was and didnt know why she was in there :rolleyes: I said that she had told me that 2 men had come to visit her and I asked him if he had taken his son. There was a very long pause before he told me that he had gone with his wife...............
  16. Suzanna1969

    Suzanna1969 Registered User

    Mar 28, 2015
    Ooooh awkward!
  17. Pinky101

    Pinky101 Registered User

    Jun 9, 2015
    East anglia
    My FIL was similar before we realised he was ill. We worried about his driving but could do nothing until one day he reversed in our drive and nearly put it in the ditch. I took the keys and said he had to see the GP before I would give them back. It was easier for me than for my husband because I am not related so can be more objective. Upshot was we took him to GP who did a memory/motor skills test and declared him unfit to drive. It was important that the GP understood we weren't just abusive controlling relatives, and it might take several goes to find a GP who's on your wavelength but once you do you may find your mum totally trusts him/her and allows GP to suggest all manner of things that will help you all out (eg your name on the patient documents so you can discuss medical things with the docs), or doing the LPA, or getting Social services to do an assessment. It's all very hard and very frustrating but worth pursuing. Good luck :)

    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
  18. MrsChristmas

    MrsChristmas Registered User

    Jun 1, 2015
    Lasting Power of Attorney done at last but still no further forward

    Hello everyone

    I often log and read other people's threads and it really makes me realise how just damn frustrating things can be and how kind everyone is on this forum.

    I was wondering if I could ask for some help or just someone to talk to please?

    My mother is nearly 90 and is very forgetful and is showing all of the signs of early dementia. She has been to the doctor for all of the physical tests and, for her age, amazingly healthy. She is due to go back this week to have a chat with the Dr but has told me that she does not want anything more done to her and 'just wants to be left alone'.

    My mother has been widowed for 3 years and my late father left her very comfortably off which is a great relief.

    I have a brother (6 years older than me) who lives about 100 miles away who comes to see Mum every few months. We have discussed an LPA but my brother is of the mind that we wil deal with that when necessary and that whilst mum is able to cope in her own home on her own then just leave at that. I live next to my mum and it is usually me that she calls on for support, usually the way when a sibling lives close by.

    I recently went on holiday with mum in October on a cruise for two weeks. My partner and I realised very quickly just how confused, vague and forgetful mum was out of her home environment. We could not leave the ship with mum nor could we leave mum on her own at any time. We decided that mum was very vulnerable and I let her GP know by email as soon as we got back off holiday because I had made the GP aware of my concerns. I also discussed this with my brother and he eventually agreed to organise an LPA. This took a real effort to get mum to agree to this because she felt that we were going behind her back and she felt that she had been rail roaded. Anyway, it was signed last week and mum is happy because she is sure that no one is going to take her money or home away from her.

    However, up to now, my partner has looked after mum's garden (he works a 12 hour day and has his own family and home to look after) and I have dealt with most other things as they crop up, taken mum shopping, helped her with weeding, repairs to her house and her finances. There is a limit to what my brother can do because he lives so far away.

    What I have been doing over the past three years since Dad passed away is to try and support mum emotionally, physically and mentally because I have felt sorry for her. I think mum has now begun to rely on me more than she realises. My children have grown up and left home and so my partner and me enjoy what time we can spend together when he is not working or spending time with his daughter and grandson.

    Dad always did everything for mum when he was alive and I have sort of taken over his roles. Mum does look after herself reasonably well but has not got the mindset to organise gardeners, handymen or how to organise her finances. So, if anything goes wrong, of course she comes knocking at my door for my help which I am happy to give.

    Now that mum is very forgetful, I can see this getting worse over time. I must confess that I am beginning to resent the fact that I am on call when my brother is totally free.

    So, in effort to resolve this, I asked my brother to talk to mum to see if she would agree for an account to be opened in either of our names so that either my brother or me can arrange for mum's garden to be maintained, hedges cut and her bungalow to be looked after on a regular basis and we pay for it out of this account, rather than having to rely on mum to organise it.

    I feel that the problem lies with trying to organise anything with mum is nightmare because she wants to control it totally but does not have the skills to plan and organise. For example, her garden got very overgrown this year and mum started complaining to me about it. So, we spent a half an hour trying to sort it out but, after a bit, mum told me to stop doing any more because she was tired and wanted to stop. I offered to carry on for the rest of the afternoon but she told me that she didn't want me to do any more either! Meanwhile, the garden gets more overgrown and mum continues to complain to me. After a few weeks, I offer to find gardeners for her but she does not like the ones that I find for her. In the end, I find a gardener and I explain the situation, that mum is suspicious and so on and the gardener is primed to handle mum with kid gloves, voila mum is happy and the garden is done! This involves a lot of work for me and I do have my own home to run.

    I thought that organising a gardener, hanyman, window cleaner, electrician, plumber on a regular basis that could be done by me or my brother and paid for out of a general account supplied with money from mum would solve it. Rather, than have mum call me asking me to sort out a blocked drain, toilet, mice in the kitchen cupboards, clearing out a shed, speaking to utility providers, organising a skip, clearing her garden...ect.ect. Especially, as mum is very frail, forgetful and vulnerable.

    This was not agreed to by mum and my brother was not prepared to persuade her. Mum wants to have complete control over her finances, her home and who comes to look after it. What she wants from me is to be there for her when she needs me, find someone to sort out her problems but dictate to me (whilst I am on the phone at her house trying to sort things out!) who does it!

    Frankly, I have had enough.

    All I can see now is me being jerked around by my mother who's mental capacity is fading and there is nothing I can do about it because I love and care about her but it does mean that I feel guilty if I don't see her regularly or help her when she asks (even if it is inconvenient to me) or if I go away and leave her on her own.

    I have spoken to my brother about how I feel but he says that I am 'nannying' mum and that she should be allowed to organise her own repairs and maintenance to her home. He says that if she cannot cope then he will speak to her. I have explained my concerns about mum's memory but he thinks that she can cope. Which is easy to say when you live 100 miles away and it is not on your doorstep.

    I do not have loads of money and mum will always pay me for anything that I organise on her behalf. I just feel that I am mum's 'go for'.

    Has anybody experienced this? Has anyone any suggestions how I solve this?

    I thought that a diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease would persuade my brother to help me but it looks like that will fail because mum is now refusing to engage with the doctor because she wants to be left alone.
  19. Clueless2

    Clueless2 Registered User

    May 14, 2015
    There is much in your last post MrsChristmas, that chimed with me too. We were not able to get mum diagnosed for many years, despite the obvious symptoms of dementia that she was exhibiting, for as far as she was concerned (and to an extent my brother too!) there was nothing wrong with her. My brother also said my father and I did too much for her.

    Eventually I wrote a letter to her GP outlining my concerns, along with the symptoms and I asked if he could invite her in under the guise of "now you are over 70 we run more regular health checks on you". A diagnosis certainly will help to open up access to other avenues of support for both of you.

    My mother was also lost in new surroundings, unable to find her way to the toilet and back again if out at the theatre or a restaurant.

    If I offered to do anything around the home or garden she would get exasperated with me and say that she was perfectly capable, had managed all those years....... Eventually I succumbed to doing her gardening in the wee small hours of the night with a head torch, far from ideal and frankly not to be recommended.

    The reality is that your mum, like mine, is in denial, resenting the implication that she can't manage, and thus will resent any handyman or handy-woman that you arrange. Likelihood is her dementia will cause her to accuse them of stealing / not doing a good job etc. Her dementia is not within her control, it isn't what or how she would have wanted to be, and hanging onto that thought is how I found the strength and patience to continue to help mum, despite her assaults on me (verbal and physical).

    Would it help to set a mental time limit on how long you are prepared to be the "go for"? Review things in the spring? perhaps suggest to your brother that he might like to come and spend a long weekend with your mum so that you and your partner can have a 5 day break, might help him to realise the true extent of her dementia? He will think you are overreacting, will not come to stay etc, so make sure that you have his mobile number stuck everywhere so that your mum can call him easily!

    Good luck.
  20. MrsChristmas

    MrsChristmas Registered User

    Jun 1, 2015
    Hello again and thank you for your thoughts...

    Hello again..

    Thank you I will review things in the spring and will try to set the mental limit.

    I have suggested (and mum) to my brother to come and stay but he refuses. He will only come when it suits him and he only stays for a couple of hours to take mum out for dinner. He usually arrives at 10:30 and is leaving by 3:30 to 'miss the heavy traffic'. My brother seems to be just doing what he has always done with my parents is just to turn up, say hello and leave.

    But, your idea of leaving his mobile phone number everywhere is a good idea.

    I hope you don't think I am being nosy but at what stage are you at with your mother? It would help me understand what to expect. At what stage (in your experience) are we at with Mum? It would help me to understand if you could share your experiences and how you dealt with it.

    Thank you for your help..much appreciated.


    Mrs c

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