Sign our care homes petition and read the manifesto for change

[Skye]

There's also a survey, for those of us with relatives in care homes

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article5510279.ece

I've filled that one in too.

 

[JPG1]

Bring on the pubs and delights and irritations of normal living!!

Hi, Mark

Like you, I don’t necessarily agree with everything in the way the ‘manifesto’ is written, and have some question marks to place over some of it. Starting with the heading they’ve allocated to it, which is somewhat misleading and excluding. It might have been better to remove the word “homes” altogether, and just call it a Petition for Care

“So we want minimum care standards at the cheaper end of provision to be raised. For example, there is no excuse for the stench of urine to persist in the corridors of care homes.” - those two thoughts don’t sit comfortably side-by-side to my way of thinking. I almost felt that something had accidentally been deleted between the two sentences.

“We want a shake up in the patterns of financing care with the government making clear what we, after a lifetime paying taxes and insurance stamps, are entitled to.” That’s ok by me, but only if it allows space for us to tell the government what we are entitled to! And that is where the Continuing Care will come in. There are many other areas of care that should be funded and improved too “after a lifetime paying taxes and insurance stamps”, including outside of care homes.

There were more than enough ‘positives’ to allow me to sign.

“We would like to be able to choose between a community consisting largely of our own age group, or to remain part of the broader community, with noisy children, dogs, pubs and all the delights and irritations of normal living” to name just one!

Yes, please, the “irritations of normal living” rather than a soul-free, regimented care home. And I’m sure there will be a lot of people who need assistance, but not necessarily Continuing Care, who would opt for the same irritations of living, as long as they are accompanied by the provision of good quality, reliable, dependable, and accessible support. Which is not what many people are receiving at present.

So, I’m happy to sign up to it. Bring on the pubs and delights and irritations of normal living!!

.

 

[TyJane]

care home petition

Hi

I would not sign! each and everyone of us are individuals, even our children can have completely different idea's to our own. What is good for us now, does not mean it is right for them in the future.

No! I would not agree that people should sale their homes to pay for their care, it should be free. Surely to leave something for your children and grandchildren, helps them to move on in life. Otherwise there will be no chance for ordinary people to improve their lives.

I certainly believe that we should not be a burden to the rest of our family either. To own your property today does not mean you are rich. It means you have stood on your own two feet.

Just my thoughts

Regards
Jane

 

[Grannie G]

It`s a question of selling homes, not marital homes, only likely to be inherited homes, or having our children pay higher taxes.
Quid pro quo.

 

[TyJane]

care homes petition

Hi Sylvia!

What does that mean?

Jane

 

[MarkEdge]

It`s a question of selling homes, not marital homes, only likely to be inherited homes, or having our children pay higher taxes.
Quid pro quo.

Hi Grannie G

Why should these be the only choices? It's simply a case of re-prioritisation of funding across the whole spectrum, e.g. we're ok to spend billions on bailing out failed financial organisations and being yoked with a huge debt burden, yet fail to adequately provide for elderly ones who have worked hard all their lives and have paid their due. Seems like very odd priorities to me.

I agree that prospectively we need to think about how our own care (as in those under, say, 50) will be funded, but any changes should not apply to those already of an age where they need care now or may do in the near future.

My main point about this (and any other) petition is that you need to know what you're signing up to. Some aspects are very good, but others are far too opaque to say 'yes' or 'no' to.

Mark

 

[TyJane]

care home partition

Hi Silvia

Understand what it means, and my answer is still No!

I do not like being told what to do, I never have, stems from my background living in a children's home.

But one thing I know for sure, dementia damages families!

The fact is dementia care should be free, FULL STOP! problem solved.

Jane

 

[Skye]

Oh dear, Jane. I tried!

Sorry!

 

[JPG1]

We can achieve far better care

Hi Jane

The petition is not about dementia care; it is about care. Care full stop.

I have no idea whether I will need care in the future ... but I may do.
I have no idea whether I will need dementia care in the future ... but I may do.
I have no idea whether my house will still be standing when I need care ... but it may do.
I have no idea whether my house will be worth what is worth today, or less, or more, whenever I may need care ... but it may do.

I have no idea. Full stop.

All I would like is that the care in the future ... for you, and for me, and for all ... is better than the care available today to all.

I signed the petition for the very reason that I do not like being told that the available system of care is the best that we can achieve.

We can achieve far more; we can achieve far better care.

To finish on a positive note: WE WILL ACHIEVE A FAR BETTER SYSTEM OF CARE THAN IS AVAILABLE AT PRESENT.

That is all I care about for now.


.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

The fact is dementia care should be free, FULL STOP! problem solved.Jane

So dementia care should be paid out of general taxes then? I would think taxes would go up in that case.

Somewhere, somehow we pay in the end. Either by paying directly for services or having them covered and paying higher taxes. Unfortunately, there is no way around this.

 

[Clive]

Oh Joanne, if only it was so simple.

I am quite happy to vote for either of your suggestions.

Pay from tax OR pay from savings.

What I am very unhappy about is that my mum’s neighbour earned twice what dad did and spent every penny, including re-mortgaging the house so it belonged to the bank. But because she has no money she gets free Care.

Dad had half the income, never had a holiday, pays off the mortgage, works till he is 70 and, because mum gets AD, she was expected to pay for her Care.

If only everything was black or white.

Clive

 

[Canadian Joanne]

I agree, Clive. We pay for Mum's care but others who don't are covered. There's a whole process and pensions are considered.

It's a different system for us in Ontario but I will say I have been deeply shocked at the costs I have heard of in the UK. That is what is really criminal, in my opinion. We pay the equivalent of £830 or so a MONTH for a shared room. A private room is about £1,100 a MONTH. All long term care facilities in the province of Ontario cost exactly the same. All are overseen by the Ministry of Health and receive additional funding from the Ministry and operate under the same regulations.

It seems to be a real hodge-podge in the UK. Granted, there are different areas, as we have different provinces. But it does sound very confusing to me - there seem to be multiple levels of jurisdictions which compete and contradict. It looks like a minefield to me. I do feel for you all.

 

[Vonny]

Hi Joanne,

I shan't tell my dad about your last post, it will give him an excuse to say he should never have left Toronto!

Vonny xxx

 

[JPG1]

I have neighbours like that too, Clive.

Every penny is spent on Caribbean holidays (frequent and long and expensive), new cars, curtains, carpets, chairs, cleaner .... all the 'c's except care. They will get totally free care, if they ever need it. Having spent every single pound they earned on their own enjoyment. Nothing wrong with that. But there is something wrong with the system that we now allow to be operated.

Definitely not black and white.

We have paid our taxes from the beginning of our working years. We paid National Insurance contributions which reached exactly the same maximum that a millionaire would have been required to pay, because there has always been a 'maximum' NI contribution. And what was the purpose of those NI contributions? To contribute to any 'benefits' that we might need at any point in the future. Nobody said to us ... but those benefits will stop if you ever need care, did they, Clive? No.

So where do we stand now?

Taxes have always gone up, and gone down slightly ... normally just before a General Election they go down slightly; normally just after a General Election they go up!

Those who spent every penny receive free care, even though they may have been millionaires, at one time. And millionaires get child allowances too, and free bus passes when they reach retirement age, and heating allowances, and Council Tax relief if they develop dementia or any other seriously disabling condition. And heating allowances, and ... well, you name it.

Those who were more 'careful' with their money, and made 'savings', well they pay for care. Not only for their own care, but for the care of those who spent every penny they ever earned. Or ever 'made', and there is a difference!!

Joanne, we too have different provinces, different 'areas of jurisdiction' - they are called local authorities, in differing counties. That is what we mean when we talk about the 'postcode lottery'.

And we pay £600 - £800 per week for care home rooms!! It varies, but roughly that now. But it can cost much much more if you are talking about Dementia specialist care homes.

It is an enormous hotch-potch here. Far worse than any one of us could ever have envisaged. Before we came into the frame, of course. Before we ever needed to care about care.

Something has got to change NOW.

.

.

 

[Margarita]

I was wondering where that petition go to, read it go toward a Green paper . found this on it .

http://careandsupport.direct.gov.uk/news/2009/04/june-launch-confirmed-for-green-paper/

The fact is dementia care should be free, FULL STOP! problem solved

I totally agree with that also.

Dad had half the income, never had a holiday, pays off the mortgage, works till he is 70 and, because mum gets AD, she was expected to pay for her Care.

Same as my parents , even thought they did have holidays, while owning they own property, but sold up after my father died .

I never new mum was expected to pay for her care out of her property, if she was to go into a care home or nursing home.

What I am very unhappy about is that my mum’s neighbour earned twice what dad did and spent every penny, including re-mortgaging the house so it belonged to the bank. But because she has no money she gets free Care

Then I found that out .

But because she has no money she gets free Care

It is totally unfair, One rule for all .

Its sending out the wrong message to the next generation .

they no such thing as inheriting a house from one generation to another , seem that was all theory , to get the working class / Middle class people out of social housing.
That Just my point of view , my perception of it .

 

[jenniferpa]

One thing to be said for paying for your own care (although it may not apply to everyone - sorry Amber) is that theoretically it allows rather more choice than may be available if you're relying on social services. I remember one poor poster who lived in Lemington Spa and there wasn't a single appropriate home within a 30 mile radius that would accept an LA funded resident without substantial 3rd party top-up.

I'm not saying this is right, you understand, just that it is.

Without her own money my mother would never have been able to take advantage of the care home solution we found - very sheltered housing with onsite carers in the grounds of a nursing home. For her (and me) it was perfect. My only regret was that she didn't do it when she could have really taken advantage of everything that was on offer. To clarify - she owned her own flat in this scheme and carers cost about half the price that agency staff did before she moved there.

 

[Margarita]

is that theoretically it allows rather more choice than may be available if you're relying on social services

That true good point.

Also if they is a good nursing home, seem if your paying the care totally self funded your get in faster, there no waiting list. Social worker told me that .

 

[jenniferpa]

While I'm sure some homes would "magically" lose their waiting list when it came to self-payers I think most of them either have a place or they don't. It's possible that they may maintain 2 waiting lists though. The other problem, Maggie, is the one I think you're going through at the moment - it can take forever to get funding for an appropriate home from the LA. When people start to say "well, person A spent all their income and now get free care" there is no doubt in my mind that sometimes it's better to be person B who saved and now has a choice. Anyway - I'm sure that no one who posts here would imply that everyone who is entitled to LA financing is entitled because they are/were feckless. That would really get my goat.

I never minded my mother spending her money that she had earned and saved for a "rainy day" in what became a monsoon, but neither did I feel resentful that there were people in the rooms around her getting the same quality care without paying any more than their pension. I was grateful that she lived in a society that would do that - I don't (and have taken out insurance policies to deal with that fact).

 

[Sandy]

Local Authority Care Funding Rates

I heard this story on the news yesterday:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8036140.stm

A group of 250 care home owners are planning legal action against all 150 English local authorities claiming that the rates funded by councils do not reflect the true cost of care.

I don't have enough information about the issues raised in this case to have a string opinion, but will be interested to see how it develops.

There have often been comments about the difference between the rates of council-funded residents and privately-funded residents, including comments about 'two waiting lists'.

It's that terrible tension between trying to keep fees affordable for councils and self-funders and providing high quality care, including having enough care staff and paying them a decent wage.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Margarita]

That is a very interesting link Sandy .

The local authorities created this mess in the first place, with closing down all they own Local authorities homes handing it all over to privet companies.

We have 2 privet company , that is also part funded by the local authority , after they pulled down our own local authorities run care homes, let the privet company build they own dementia / nursing care homes.

The company that built the privet care homes in my area , was one of the privet company's that was name in Panorama, on BBC1 .

Seem to me, that they (privet company's) can take the LA to court over wanting more money, but we the public can't take them (privet company's) to court over neglect.