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Respite care after hospital stay

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Hi Mum has been in hospital for 2 weeks after being admitted with delirium and subsequently testing positive for Covid. She is now ready to be discharged and I have been called by the ward to tell me she is being moved to a bed in an EMI care home in another town-this was the only bed available that met her needs apparently. This will be funded on the Covid 6 week follow on care budget.

I have POA and feel I should have been consulted about where she goes or does this not happen when people are discharged from hospital? I don't want her being stuck there for weeks on end if she improves and the delirium subsides. I feel so helpless and upset, I know she couldn't come home with her previous care package but this is not a home I would have chosen for her looking on line. Anyone else been in the same situation?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,935
0
South coast
Hi @Linsac - your mum is probably still very unwell and delirium is horrible. If they could only find one home that could meet her needs, then Im afraid that there wasnt really any choice.

At the end of the 6 weeks you should be able to have input about what happens next. If she has improved sufficiently she may be able to come home with a care package, alternatively she may need a care or nursing home permanantly- although it will probably need to be an EMI home. You could use these six weeks to research care/nursing homes. Be aware that the home you would prefer will still do a check to make sure that they can meet her needs before accepting her
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Hi @Linsac - your mum is probably still very unwell and delirium is horrible. If they could only find one home that could meet her needs, then Im afraid that there wasnt really any choice.

At the end of the 6 weeks you should be able to have input about what happens next. If she has improved sufficiently she may be able to come home with a care package, alternatively she may need a care or nursing home permanantly- although it will probably need to be an EMI home. You could use these six weeks to research care/nursing homes. Be aware that the home you would prefer will still do a check to make sure that they can meet her needs before accepting her
Thank you @canary yes she still is very unwell and unaware of where she is or what is wrong with her. She has Alzheimer's but was previously coping at home with carers 4 x a day.

I have since spoken to the CH and they sound kind and caring which has put my mind at ease a little but it's a "requires improvement" home which I think is often the case when NHS/SS are paying. I am actually looking at live in care for the future, I spoke to a local agency this morning and they were so helpful. It is much more affordable than an EMI home so I am hoping that might be a possibility.
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
1,390
0
Don't worry too much about the "requires improvement" @Linsac . This can be for things which don't matter to us relatives half as much as the kind and caring bit. My mum's in a small private care home which got a "requires improvement" at the last inspection but it oozes kindness and is able to look after some quite challenging residents, one of whom is mum.

This must be very stressful for you but you can also take some comfort from the fact that your mum probably won't remember anything about it. I agree that it would be a good time to take a breath and think about what to do next.
 

PetAng59

Registered User
Oct 11, 2020
28
0
Barnsley
Hi @Linsac,
I have thought about maybe going down the live in care root for my OH as and when the time comes but didn't know how it worked and the cost of it. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Hi @Linsac,
I have thought about maybe going down the live in care root for my OH as and when the time comes but didn't know how it worked and the cost of it. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
In my are (SE) it is around £800 per week. The agency sort everything out and you just have to pay the carer and buy food for them. They can be long term or change every few weeks.

I am more concerned about mum being in an EMI home. It specialises in challenging behaviour which mum definitely does not have! She is very quiet and well behaved normally, just confused and anxious. I really am unsure if this is the right place for her but what can I do?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
14,935
0
South coast
My mum was in an EMI home @Linsac because she was a wanderer. It was fine. Most of the people there were not violent or aggressive. There was the odd flare up, but the carers were adept at defusing the situation and I was never concerned about mum. The carers were wonderful, so kind and caring and mum thrived there.
Your mum is probably there because of the delirium. Try not to worry too much
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
My mum was in an EMI home @Linsac because she was a wanderer. It was fine. Most of the people there were not violent or aggressive. There was the odd flare up, but the carers were adept at defusing the situation and I was never concerned about mum. The carers were wonderful, so kind and caring and mum thrived there.
Your mum is probably there because of the delirium. Try not to worry too much
Thank you @canary your comments make me feel so much better
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Don't worry too much about the "requires improvement" @Linsac . This can be for things which don't matter to us relatives half as much as the kind and caring bit. My mum's in a small private care home which got a "requires improvement" at the last inspection but it oozes kindness and is able to look after some quite challenging residents, one of whom is mum.

This must be very stressful for you but you can also take some comfort from the fact that your mum probably won't remember anything about it. I agree that it would be a good time to take a breath and think about what to do next.
Thanks @lemonbalm I had a look at the CQC report and it was all to do with admin type stuff, record keeping and DOL procedure. The care itself scored well. I will just have to wait and see but unlikely I will get a feel for the home as I would imagine visits will be brief and through a window or similar.
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Hi just wanted so me advice as I am feeling very low and worried after visiting mum today.
As you know from my previous posts, I was worried about it being an EMI home. My fears were not unfounded and mum finds it awful. Lots of screaming, swearing and shouting which just terrifies her. (I have heard this over the phone). Some of the male residents are verbally aggressive and forever dropping their trousers! Mum was dressed in someone else's trousers and has plasters all up her legs. She says she fell out of bed last night but not sure how true that is.

She has been there 2 weeks and I can't imagine how she will cope there for another 4. A SW has been in touch and the CH have sent her their initially report and care plan. I have no idea if they can make her stay the full 6 weeks, I really can't see how it is doing her any good. I know dementia patients shouldn't be moved but I am just not convinced this is the right setting for her.

By the way, what is the difference between an EMI home and a normal CH that specialises in dementia?
 

Peace lily

Registered User
Jan 30, 2020
62
0
Hi @Linsac , I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. It's a similar situation as my dad, although he is in a nursing home and not EMI. My dad had been wearing clothes that had been donated (new) for two weeks When I queried it, they said that he hadn't come in with any??? The suitcase and bag of clothes I took for him had been misplaced (suitcase was eventually found on top of his wardrobe). I couldn't believe it. I have seen my dad in two occasions through a perspex screen. The first time he was unshaven and his fingernails were filthy and he was in someone else's clothes When I ring up for a handover, all I get is 'he's fine.' That means nothing to me? I feel dreadful. The sadness and guilt are overwhelming. I am so upset.My dad will spend six weeks there and then we will look at a longer term placement. I don't want him staying there. I don't want him staying anywhere, but at home, but my mum cannot manage any longer. Take care of yourself x
 

Peace lily

Registered User
Jan 30, 2020
62
0
EMI home is just for people with dementia only (I think) and nursing home has adults with various conditions as well as dementia. I hope this information is correct?
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
@Peace lily it is awful isn't it? I know it may not be as bad as she says and the nurses all seem kind and friendly. However, I only get information on how she is if I call. She has another UTI and conjunctivitis. She was so muddled and confused as to why she was there, saying "I haven't done anything, why can't I go home?" I tried to reassure her by telling her the doctors wanted her to stay there until she was a bit stronger but all she said was I want to go home and have the carers there, why can't I come home with you etc. She also implied she would be better off dead than in there which was hard to hear as she has never spoken like this before.

I think she would thrive in the right setting but I am convinced this is not it. Not sure how I go about doing anything about it though? I do hope your dad is okay too. What a worrying time for us, we must try not to feel guilty though. Thanks for your caring reply x
 

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
2,721
0
Dorset
@Peace lily , Quite often when I went to visit The Banjoman he would be unshaven , with his hair all over the place. One day while I was there one of the carers came into his room and said “He looks good today, yes? He let me shave him today!” It may be that your Dad is refusing their administrations.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
1,282
0
EMI home is just for people with dementia only (I think) and nursing home has adults with various conditions as well as dementia. I hope this information is correct?
EMI stands for elderly mentally infirm.
People seem to be reporting having difficulty finding EMI homes these days, so I wonder if someone has come up with a term judged to be ‘more appealing’?
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
1,390
0
Hello @Linsac

I'm sorry to hear about your visit. I still have flashbacks from some of my early visits to mum at the first care home I placed mum in. It was a temporary move just to get her out of hospital, where they just couldn't cope with her.

The trouble with a dementia care home is that it is full of people with dementia and some will behave in odd ways, sometimes aggressively. But it's important to remember that you are only getting a snapshot of the place, an impression of that particular time when you are there or that particular time when you 'phoned. When I was so horrified about the first care home, I asked the manager, who was a psychiatric nurse, about the noise, the shouting and occasional scream, and she said oh the residents just get used to it.

My mum is in a good small specialist dementia care home now (and it is sometimes mum who is behaving oddly or screaming). There is some shouting, occasional screaming, sometimes a person toddles in with very little on, there are scuffles between residents. The staff just deal with everything and the residents really do seem to acclimatise, and accept the behaviour from other residents.

I'm not sure how you go about moving your mum in her situation (I had no involvement from social services so it was all up to me). If you are unable to arrange for a move to somewhere which may be more suitable for the remainder of the 6 weeks, I would say that although it is very hard for you, it's extremely unlikely that your mum will remember anything about this time.
 

Linsac

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
71
0
Hello @Linsac

I'm sorry to hear about your visit. I still have flashbacks from some of my early visits to mum at the first care home I placed mum in. It was a temporary move just to get her out of hospital, where they just couldn't cope with her.

The trouble with a dementia care home is that it is full of people with dementia and some will behave in odd ways, sometimes aggressively. But it's important to remember that you are only getting a snapshot of the place, an impression of that particular time when you are there or that particular time when you 'phoned. When I was so horrified about the first care home, I asked the manager, who was a psychiatric nurse, about the noise, the shouting and occasional scream, and she said oh the residents just get used to it.

My mum is in a good small specialist dementia care home now (and it is sometimes mum who is behaving oddly or screaming). There is some shouting, occasional screaming, sometimes a person toddles in with very little on, there are scuffles between residents. The staff just deal with everything and the residents really do seem to acclimatise, and accept the behaviour from other residents.

I'm not sure how you go about moving your mum in her situation (I had no involvement from social services so it was all up to me). If you are unable to arrange for a move to somewhere which may be more suitable for the remainder of the 6 weeks, I would say that although it is very hard for you, it's extremely unlikely that your mum will remember anything about this time.
Thank you @lemonbalm your reply is very helpful. I am sure you are right, moving her at this stage probably would not be beneficial and quite likely there would be similar issues in an alternative home. She will have been in there 2 weeks today so I guess she may start to settle. I haven't been inside, only the garden pod but it seems they are not encouraged to be in their rooms during the day (makes sense I guess if they have to assess her needs) but what it does mean is there is no escape from the noise and drama! When she had respite care last year, I was able to pick the CH and residents were free to sit in their own rooms watching tv or mingle with the other residents.

You are right that she will probably not remember this, she thought that she had only been there for one day! I just feel helpless as I had no input in where she was going and what will happen next. I am going to contact her SW this week and see what the next steps are likely to be and then I may start making tentative inquires to alternative care homes if needs be. Mum gets section 117 aftercare so we have to involve them due to the funding but we can pay for a top up to a home of our choice if we like.
 

Peace lily

Registered User
Jan 30, 2020
62
0
Hi @Linsac and @lemonbalm, thank you for your replies. We just want the best for our loved ones and as you say, we only see a snippet of what's going on. My gut instinct is telling me that my dad's placement is not the right place. So many things have raised a red flag in such a short space of time. I feel so guilty that it has come to this and if I could, I would bring my dad to live with me. I hope that you find the right place for your mum @Linsac. Take care x
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
1,390
0
Thank you @lemonbalm your reply is very helpful. I am sure you are right, moving her at this stage probably would not be beneficial and quite likely there would be similar issues in an alternative home. She will have been in there 2 weeks today so I guess she may start to settle. I haven't been inside, only the garden pod but it seems they are not encouraged to be in their rooms during the day (makes sense I guess if they have to assess her needs) but what it does mean is there is no escape from the noise and drama! When she had respite care last year, I was able to pick the CH and residents were free to sit in their own rooms watching tv or mingle with the other residents.

You are right that she will probably not remember this, she thought that she had only been there for one day! I just feel helpless as I had no input in where she was going and what will happen next. I am going to contact her SW this week and see what the next steps are likely to be and then I may start making tentative inquires to alternative care homes if needs be. Mum gets section 117 aftercare so we have to involve them due to the funding but we can pay for a top up to a home of our choice if we like.

I suppose it makes life more difficult for the carers if people are in their rooms but, if my mum has the heebie-jeebies, the carers will take her to her room for some quiet time and she is often fine after a snooze or a doze in her chair. It might be worth asking if your mum can have some quiet time during the day, perhaps a snooze after lunch if she did that at home.

https://www.carehome.co.uk/ is a very useful site for looking around for care-homes (lots of advice at the bottom of the main page too). Good luck.