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Putting dad into a home AGAIN

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Sharonk43, May 24, 2015.

  1. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    My dad was diagnosed with dementia/alzeimers 5yrs ago after a fall which exelerated the underlying condition to a point where he was violent, confused, scared, didn't recognize any of us. We cared for him 24/7 for about a month before he then started trying to get out of the house and we had to call the police and get him admitted into a home. He was there was 6mths, very unhappy and sad but he coped. Once he was put on the correct medication he improved dramatically to a point where he was suffering because he was placed on the floor with clients with extreme dementia. His mobility was more of an issue than anything. We decided to bring him home where my mum and brother would be his full time carers, with help from a care agency too. It's been hard and for me a constant battle to make sure everything required was being done and that dad was being cared for properly. Having family as carers is hard when there is that emotional connection, it's very hard to criticize a person for not doing something when they are family. My dads illness has torn my family apart.
    Anyway 3yrs on dads physical side has deteriorated dramatically, he can hardly manage to walk, his posture has crumbled, he struggles to feed himself and heed constant assistance. His memory has worsened to the point where he doesn't remember what he done a lot of the time, he can't understand questions or direction. He tends to want to go to bed very early.
    Recently there has been an incident where dad wasn't able to sit on his bed and my brother pushed dad onto it. This broke my heart to hear and I then increased the care to relieve the pressure but again it seems my brother is now speaking to my dad in a disrespectful manner and swearing at it whilst losing his temper and taking it out on objects around him. I visited my dad as I do every week and he broke down in tears and said he was scared of my brother!! Said he swears at him. Obviously this is heart breaking for him and for me. My brother holds a lot of resentment towards my dad because of what he has given up which is why this is happening. I asked my mum to speak to my brother and tell him what dad had said and how upset he was. My brothers reply was he has cared for dad for 3yrs and now wants to get on with his life. This I can understand but leaves me now in the position of having to put my dad back into a home. If this was happening in a care home i wouldn't ignore it and I won't now.
    If his dementia was at the stage where he wouldn't know about it then that would be easier but unfortunately his care needs are more physical than mental at present.
    My heart is breaking for the 2nd time and I still carry the guilt from the first time, now I have to do it all again and dreading having to tell dad this week.
    I am hoping to get him in to a home near me rather than the hour drive to where he lives at home at the moment, Atleast then I can keep check on him and the home and visit him regularly.
    I want to ask if I am doing the right thing but really it's my only option to make sure dad is safe and treated as he should be with respect and dignity in a home which obviously I will really need to make sure has the good reputation.
     
  2. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    Hello Sharon

    Welcome to Talking Point.

    Moving your dad into care is probably the right thing. Being looked after by a resentful carer is a far worse option, imo.

    Whereas I don't condone your brother's actions, I can appreciate he has probably reached the end of his tether and I would support his right to say "I've done my bit. I've had enough". A three year stint is a lot longer than many sons and daughters are prepared to do as a day to day hands-on carer, me included. Better to act now before he does something he may regret.

    I'm a bit concerned that you don't mention your mum much. What are her views? How is she going to be able to visit your dad if you move him nearer you? Won't that mean an hour's journey for her instead? Will she be happy with that?
     
  3. opaline

    opaline Registered User

    Nov 13, 2014
    182
    You are definitely doing the right thing for EVERYONE, your dad will be looked after, you will have peace of mind and your brother will be relieved. Please don't resent him for his feelings as he has been living a nightmare as well for the last 3 years, x
     
  4. susy

    susy Registered User

    Jul 29, 2013
    806
    North East
    You are doing the right thing and I'm sure your dad will be happier this time. I agree with Chemmy though about your mum, what are her thoughts? She herself will have gone through a lot caring for your dad. It will be a relief and a grief all at the same time to have this taken out of her hands but I would imagine she will want to visit him every day.
    I would also think your brother will want to visit him too. I know he is at the end of his tether but this is down to the stress of 24/7 caring.
    I wish you good luck in finding a wonderful home where ever you decide to look for one.
     
  5. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    11,604
    West Midlands
    Sounds like your brother is having carers breakdown to me

    An awful situation for all of you. Hope you can find something that helps all of you x


    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
     
  6. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    Thanks guys. I did forget to mention that my mum and dad are actually separated and have been for nearly 20yrs. My mum moved back into the family home when my dad was first in care as she is part owner and the mortgage needed paying and she was struggling paying rent where she was living. She was the one who agreed to have him back home and to care for him whilst still working.
    My brother has also been a carer yes but right from the start but he has also been fighting me with every decision made and very shabby with his care. The only reason he has cared for dad is because he didn't want to be the baddy like he said I was when dad went into care the first time and also he gets a roof over his head because he is to bone idle to find his own. There are a lot of family issues involved here as well as the care issues like my mum and brother don't communicate, my mum is also scared of my brother because of past violence towards her. When my dad came home from care it was all arranged by my brother and mum behind my back because they said they could cope. I must mention that I am POA for my dad!!
    As for my brother visiting dad in care, well the last time my brother went in every day as dad was local but he made dad so reliant on him that it made keeping dad there even harder, my dad wanted to see my brother all the time and when he couldn't I was getting the calls from the home because dad was upset. Bearing in mind I was pregnant and living where I do which is a 2hrs round trip.
    My brother is basically a freeloader who is waiting for my dad to pass so he gets his half of the house but this won't happen because if dad can't be at home then mum said she will sell the house and I will use his half to pay towards his care when needed.
    I am going to see if direct payments would add another 20hrs to dad care so then there would be cover for when mum is at work and also to give her time to herself. My brother will have to leave and stand on his own two feet. Not sure they will pay anymore as he already gets about 40hrs a week but worth a try. They may just say it's cheaper to go into care.
     
  7. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    Ah, that clarifies things.

    I'd forget the extra care and get him into a good CH near you asap. If I was your dad, I wouldn't want to be at the mercy of a resentful son and an 'ex'-wife. Somewhere where the staff actually like and respect him. Poor man.
     
  8. susy

    susy Registered User

    Jul 29, 2013
    806
    North East
    Again I'm with Chemmy here. Your poor dad and poor you!
    I'm so glad you are the one with POA. I would be watchful about the sale of the house though. As your mum is living in it a charge can be put against it possibly but in reality she doesn't have to sell it and it should be disregarded. As for your brother, to get someone like this to leave.... Change the locks when he is out???
     
  9. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    #9 Sharonk43, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter what my brother does my dad although he said he is scared of him, he still sees him as his golden boy and well mum won't see him homeless which really angers me. Why should dad have to go into a CH just because my brother can't be bothered and because if sad was to stay it would be so awkward having brother still living there and not caring for dad. And having to explain to dad why
    I am really am so confused as to what to do, wouldn't it be cruel to put dad in a CH if there is a possibility that the right amount of care can be brought in?
    My brother has no rights over the house as his name is not on the mortgage he just pays rent so to speak. I have no problem with a ticket being put on the house for my dads half if it means it's going towards his care but as mentioned my mum won't see my brother homeless and is to scared to even tell him to go.
    I'm sorry for going in but I am really struggling with what is really the best thing to do and I wish it wasn't just up to me the youngest out of 4 children to decide but no one else gets involved and can be that selfish to detach themselves from it
     
  10. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    #10 Jessbow, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    I am not sure as your brother 'cant be bothered'. caring takes a toll on everyone, especially those on the front line. A well as caring for dad, you say he pays rent, I Don't think he's freeloading

    No one HAS to care for anyone.

    Sounds like everyone is at the end of their tether.Difficult family dynamics- You don't seem to have a good word to say about your brother at all- very sad. Yet he's kept dad at home. When dad was in a care home last time your bro even visited daily...and you criticise him for that!!

    Sounds like a care home placement would be the best for everyone.And near where he is now- don't deprive him of your mother and brother out of resentment.
     
  11. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    Forgive me, but I'm going to play Devil's advocate here for a minute. No offence intended:)

    Suppose your brother contacted TP; what would his side of the story be?

    Three years ago I moved in to the family home to help care for my dad. My mum, who has been separated from Dad for many years, moved back in too. I have now had enough, even with the help of carers, and I am losing my temper with my dad. I think the time has come for him to move into a CH.

    My sister, whom I don't get on with, lives an hour away. She has POA and is against the CH option. She wants to bring in more care - maybe 40hrs per week, which is unlikely -but that still leaves me and Mum (who works) looking after Dad for the rest of the time. Am I being unreasonable wanting my life back?


    OK, I accept its not that simple but the truth usually lies somewhere in between both perspectives. And as Jessbow says, he'd probably be told he does not have to be a carer and congratulated for giving his dad an extra three years at home.

    You cannot -and should not - force your brother or your mum to continue looking after your dad if they don't want to do it any more. Anyway, your dad deserves better. Unless you are able to provide a more hands-on role yourself, then a CH would seem to be the best option all round. And if you are happy for carers to look after him, why does it have to be in his own home? He may well find life is much more convivial in a communal setting. I know my MIL does.
     
  12. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,713
    Female
    London
    Your dad sounds like a prime candidate for a care home and not just because your brother does not want to do it anymore!

    To be honest, I am sad about how you speak about your brother. There seems to be a lot of resentment on your part but he probably resents your role too. You say he is a bone idle freeloader who can't be bothered anymore, yet he has cared for your dad for three years. While I don't deny you care for him too, he's the one who's done it 24/7 and until you've been in his shoes and seen what it's like I don't think you ought to critise him like that. Caring is hard work, both physical and emotional, plus a lot of carers do not get the respect they deserve. Have you ever asked him what he would like to do instead of caring? Because unpaid caring isn't a career choice, I can tell you.

    If you want to keep your dad at home you have to live with him yourself (which I am guessing is not an option) but you cannot force someone else to do it. No person can be forced. Your dad might even be happier in a communal setting, but even if not, he will be safe and looked after properly and that's really all you can expect.
     
  13. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    4,296
    SW London
    I have to agree that a care home sounds the best option. Please don't think it would be 'cruel' - despite the horror stories there are a lot of very good ones out there, as many of us on here have found, and many people do very well in them. Some people even improve considerably.

    Unless you have done it - maybe you have at some time - it is almost impossible to understand how stressful and exhausting caring for someone with dementia can be. And many of us will have lost our rags occasionally - it can drive you almost beyond endurance when someone cannot or will not cooperate with washing, dressing, eating, whatever, or incessantly asks the same question, or is endlessly agitated because they have some false bee in their bonnet which they go on about non stop, and cannot understand that it's all in their head - I could go on. And all this goes on day in, day out, over and over and over and over.

    If someone is willing to devote themselves to 24/7 care, all well and good, but if they are unwilling, or have truly come to the end of their tether, then I honestly think a good care home is the best option.
     
  14. AlsoConfused

    AlsoConfused Registered User

    Sep 17, 2010
    1,955
    I agree with the others. Care in a care home is likely to be a far better solution for your Dad than the situation at home. It might even provide the opportunity for some healing of family relationships.

    I love my Mum deeply. If Dad didn't still insist on looking after her himself (which he does - though recently with increasing doubt in his voice) or was out of the picture then Mum would go into the right care home as soon as we could find her a place. All of the siblings are agreed on that. I'm sure Mum'd be physically cleaner, better cared for and safer (the stairs are a worry); also that the people looking after her would be more relaxed with her and more stimulating company. She probably wouldn't eat as well and she'd lose whatever comfort she now has in the familiar surroundings of home.
     
  15. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    Ok so I have obviously got my message over wrong when it comes to my brother so let me clarify a few things. I have cared for my dad 24/7 when he was in a worse state than he is now and I was pregnant at the time. Yes my brother has cared for my dad there is no denying that but my mum does alot of the care and works. My brother is a part time fireman so when he is not on call he cares for dad. When I call him a freeloader I mean yes his pays rent( only because I have to tell him every month to pay it) but he doesn't pay towards any utility bills or food and expects my mum to fork that out. He has gone behind my back from day one and never once acknowledge my input as I have his. I may not be there 24/7 as I have a 3yr old daughter to look after but from day one I have made every single arrangement for dads care, made all arrangements and explored all avenues to make things easier for both my brother and my mum without a single thank you from my brother only threats and accused of interfering.
    Any ideas or advice given has been totally ignored by him, every Drs appointment, hospital appointment, equipment needed has been arranged by ME because he can not be bothered and again ignores my suggestions.
    This may seem like a personal vendetta towards by brother but it's not, he has stolen, threatened and lied threw his teeth from day one. I will not thank him for fighting me on every thing I have tried to do and yes the stress of caring for someone can be hard but having to continually monitor and check things are being done is very stressful for me to.
    You think my brother was doing my dad a favour going to see him everyday!! You have no idea the reasons why he done that and it wasn't because he wanted to see dad. And when it came to me going over there which I did regularly and hearing how all he done was slag me off and then having to explain that dad wouldn't be seeing my brother because he had gone away with no warning, try explaining that when he again made dad so reliant and never gave him the chance to settle in to a new setting.
    I could go on and on and list all the nasty, selfish things my brother has done to me, my mum and dad but I won't because this is about what's best for my dad and unfortunately you are right there is so much hate because of what's happened over the years that it always comes back to the way my brother has been.
    I will discuss with the social this week and they will decided what they think is best and not what is best for my poor hard done by brother. My mum is happy to drive over to see my dad, if my brother wants to get on with his life and eventually move away then I am not going to home dad over there where no one but my mum and I will go and visit. Here I can keep an eye on things, I gave more support around me and my brother can get a lift with his friend if he is still here to visit.
     
  16. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    Also when you volunteer to care for someone with dementia you have to take the rough with the smooth as hard as it is and not choose to only be civil to the sufferer when they are having a good day. When an accusation is made which as we all know can be made quite often with dementia, you can't ignore the situation it needs to be discussed which it was, you can't just turn round and say I want my life back and stop caring, u admit the struggle abs maybe the mistakes and arrange alternative care!!!
     
  17. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    Oh and it was my mums idea to try and get a lot more care in to keep him at home and my brother would no longer have to share the are with my mum, NOT my idea!!!
     
  18. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    We may be coming across as judgmental. I don't think any of us intended to do that, it's just that there are a lot of hands-on carers on TP who are at breaking point and we tend to give those at the coal face, so to speak, the benefit of the doubt as well as support.

    Only you know your brother. All I would say is that if a carer in my mum's CH had behaved in the way you described, s/he would rightly have been sacked.

    It's now three years since your dad's last stint in a CH and he appears to have deteriorated. You might find that he settles pretty well. People with dementia might not understand everything that's going on but they do pick up the vibes, good and bad. When my mum wasn't able to talk, I knew at least she could hear the chatter going on between the staff and other residents. It was quite a jolly place, albeit slightly surreal :D At the very least it seemed a less lonely world for her there than alone at home in a lounge with a telly.

    How about moving him in near you for respite for a couple of weeks to give everyone some breathing space? Would that be feasible financially? I guess you may be looking at LA funding as there would seem to be a strong case for the house being disregarded, if his wife still lives there and she and your brother have been carers for the last three years.
     
  19. Sharonk43

    Sharonk43 Registered User

    May 24, 2015
    29
    My dad is very with it so to speak even though he has alzheimers, is know whats going on around him but is unable to make a decisions based on what would be best and does get confused and forgetful. I think if his alzheimiers was worse then the decision would be easier as he wouldn't realise what was happening. Unfortunately he has been affected more with his mobiity and can not understand directions or instruction. We are waiting to get him scanned for parkinsons as he shows all the signs.
    I agree that if he had been treated like this in a CH then yes i would make sure that staff member was sacked and just because its a family member does not give the right to mentally and physically abuse cracking under the pressure or not. My father has deterioated in the 3yrs he has been home again more physically than mentally but still he is worse. i feel this is to do with lack of stimulation, motivation, socialisation. He gets up at 10.00am, has a shower, gets dressed, goes downstairs sits in his armchair and stares at the tv, half the time not even knowing what he is actually watching. When my brother is with him he doesn't strike up a conversation, he sits on his laptop. There is no emotional contact from him and my mum because mum worries he might get the wrong impression and doesn't want dad upset. I always make sure i kiss and hug him and tell him i love him, and i take my daughter over once a week because she is the one person he really looks for ward to seeing and getting hugs from. He gets very car sick so on the occasions that we can get him in and out of a car he ends up feeling really ill even with travel tablets so he is literally housebound, we try and get him in the garden for a walk but again his walking id terrible and he ends up scaring himself when he stumbles.
    I have thought about respite but then i feel he will remember that his last stint started as respite and he ended up having to stay for 6mths. Wouldn't it be better just to be honest from the start and try and get him settled and he will be staying on a permanent basis anyway? its gone past the stage of breathing space for my brother i feel. I do actually think respite or permanent care will eventually kill my dad but i may be totally wrong, he said the other day his life is over and thats before we have even mentioned the CH.
    Because my mum owns half and lives in the home then that is not taken into account but dads pension will obviously be taken towards care which is fine if it gets him the care he needs.
    I honestly don't know which way to go, i know in my heart where he would be better off but i know dad will hate me for it.
     
  20. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,713
    Female
    London
    I do apologise if I came across as being judgmental but I could only go on what's been written.

    You say yourself you think your dad lacks stimulation and social contact. He would get that in a good care home. You also say he hasn't got the capacity anymore to decide what's best for him. That's where you as POA holder come in. Someone here said something very wise once: "you have to accept that you can make him safe but you can't always make him happy." Lots of people promise their loved ones that they will never put them in a home. This is a promise that can't always be kept and is not in the person's best interest to be kept, whatever they might think of it. Your dad might find contentment in a care home, or he might not, but it still seems the best for his overall welfare. Also, think of it this way: while he can still know what's going on around him he could also get settled and possibly make friends - something it's too late for if he's no longer with it.
     

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