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Power of attorney abuse?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Grump, May 21, 2019.

  1. Grump

    Grump Registered User

    Aug 29, 2016
    9
    To cut a long story short, my brother has been moving money that belonging to my mum (who has dementia) from her current account to another account he opened up in my mums name using the POA. He did not tell me he was doing this and only by chance did I find out where it had gone. To be honest he is doing it to maximise any money that will come to us when mum passes and not thinking about mum.

    I sent a message requesting he stopped moving mums money. He has since transferred more money from mums current account to get at me. This can not be in my mums interest.

    What can be done to stop this? Would the Public guardian office do anything if he was doing this just out of spite?
     
  2. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,387
    Female
    South coast
    If the account is in your mums name then it still belongs to her, so I really cant see what the problem is - especially if it will maximise the amount she has. I used to transfer mums money around, but the accounts were always in her name and the money always belonged to her.
     
  3. Grump

    Grump Registered User

    Aug 29, 2016
    9
    Without going into it, my brother is a horrible person and only does things for himself. My mum gets CHC and nothing except for haircuts and clothes should be coming out of her account. She already has a substantial amount of money and doesn't need any more. How many haircuts can you get for £200k?

    This is making me feel stressed. I visit nearly every day, I work and I have to contend with keeping track of mums money to make sure he's done nothing.
     
  4. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,496
    Female
    London
    If he is moving it into an account in his name, then it's fraud.

    If he is moving it into an account in your Mum's name, it is not.

    So you need to be pretty clear about that before you accuse him of anything.
     
  5. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    941
    As an attorney with financial POA you brother is legally obliged to ensure that the finances are being well managed. I can't see how he is doing anything wrong by maximising your Mum's assets. CHC can, and does, get removed on review so she might need her money to pay for her care in future, which won't be cheap. If he is the sole POA then he doesn't have to tell you what he is doing. Clearly you don't have a good relationship but if there's no evidence that he is abusing his position then there is no need for you to stress yourself out by keeping track of your Mum's money. It was your Mum's decision to make him attorney so maybe reduce your visits a bit and give yourself a break for a while. Working and caring can get really stressful so you need to look after yourself. If your brother is doing things out of spite or to wind you up then take the upper hand and step away and leave him to it.
     
  6. Grump

    Grump Registered User

    Aug 29, 2016
    9
    #6 Grump, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    So despite being asked to stop messing with mums money he moves it just out of spite is in my mum's best interest?? Moving it from a current account offering 0.75% to an account that offers 1% is actually worth it?

    I too have POA and could easily do what he is doing but it is not in my mothers interest. Him moving money around just to get at me surely is not working in my mothers interest. Fom what I see the POA isnt worth the paper it is written on if people acting this way can get away with it.

    Edit: Not getting at anyone, just frustrated. Mum never knew what kind of person he is so had no issue appointing him. My job is to make sure mums money doesnt just vanish over night and I cant do anything about until it goes missing
     
  7. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,496
    Female
    London
    #7 Beate, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    I would say that trying to maximise your mother's money is in her best interest, and I fail to see why anyone would be offended by that. If it makes him feel good getting an extra 0.25%, so what? How is this spiting you? There clearly seem to be deeper issues here between you two, but this is not POA abuse.
     
  8. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    1,421
    I have POA for my dad but I have not used it yet. I think what your brother has done is what I should really be doing. Dad has a ridiculous amount of money in his current account and a paltry amount in his savings account.

    I have left it alone up until now but really it would be in dad's best interest if I were to swap it about but I don't like to. I really should though.
     
  9. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    941
    Money in banks/building societies is only protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme up to a maximum of £85,000. If you have more than that in the same financial institution you need to spread it between different banks/building societies to ensure that it is safe. As your Mum has a substantial amount of money, which she isn't spending so will be gradually increasing due to interest added, then it needs to be moved into different accounts to protect it. I'm going to have to start doing the same when Mum's house is sold. As joint attorney with your brother it is your responsibility as much as his to keep your Mum's money safe.
     
  10. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    Why is him moving Mums money to an account with better interests NOT in Mums best interests? Seems to me that it is.

    As POA- are you joint, or joint and several? - if you are jont, then yes, you should know and agree to things before they happen, but if not, well, there will be a reason it was set up that way
     
  11. Rosettastone57

    Rosettastone57 Registered User

    Oct 27, 2016
    813
    There's obviously more going on with the relationship you have with your brother, which forum members are not privy to. That is your prerogative in not expanding on this. But on the facts as given regarding moving monies into accounts with higher interest in your mum's name, the advice you have been given is sound. There's nothing here that the OPG would be interested in
     
  12. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    4,353
    Kent
    With the £85,000 protection in any 1 institution limit in mind and the amount of funds your mum has then opening up more accounts in your mum's name is good management and a bonus if gaining better interest rates. That is what I did for Dad as his attorney. It isn't prudent in my view to keep a vast sum in a current account.
     
  13. Daffy123

    Daffy123 Registered User

    Feb 1, 2018
    43
    It sounds like your brother is doing the job he was trusted to do.
     
  14. Daffy123

    Daffy123 Registered User

    Feb 1, 2018
    43
    This was not meant to sound impolite. It makes sense that money is moved from poor paying accounts into better paying ones.
     
  15. silversea2020

    silversea2020 Registered User

    May 12, 2019
    30
    Yes, there’s nothing illegal or incorrect about moving finances into a better interest account when acting as POA - i cannot see why this should cause any concern
     
  16. Delphie

    Delphie Registered User

    Dec 14, 2011
    1,244
    Hi Grump. Can I ask why you're so frustrated that he's moving her money around? It's all still in mum's name, yes? And she's not being kept short of money for anything?

    To be honest, even if his motive is ultimately selfish in that you will both inherit more, he's still doing what he's supposed to, and that's looking after mums money.

    My mum's wealth has substantially increased on my watch. I don't particularly care that I will inherit when she passes away. I'm not really motivated by money but it's very important to me that I do a good job and as I'm a Deputy I know that this is what's expected of me. I'm sorry that you're so unhappy with the situation but it's hard to see what he's doing wrong.
     
  17. Alzheimer's Society

    Alzheimer's Society Volunteer Moderator

    This thread has now been closed as it has run its course. Thanks everyone.
     
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