New Member. Mum's Finances, Advice Required.

[John F]

Hello,

I am a new member. Please could anyone help me with the following problem?

My mum was diagnosed with dementia in October 2019. This year, she moved permanently into a care home this February following an assessment period.

During the assessment period, it was decided she has not got the capability to make her own decisions. As nobody did not have the power of attorney at this time, it will be difficult for me to look after her finances now.

Mum was a council tenant. I had set up direct debits to pay both her rent and council tax. My brother still lives in mum's house and has spoken to the housing officer regarding the tenancy.

Once mum was permanently in the care home for six weeks, her attendance allowance and housing benefits were stopped. This means both her rent and council tax went up a significant amount as she is still on the tenancy agreement for now! She has a limited amount of funds in her bank account but these are not enough to cover the increase of both rent and council tax monthly payments over a period of time.

The advice l require is who should l speak to in regarding stopping the direct debits for both rent and council tax plus other financial matters? As l think it is not right to expect mum to pay both for the tenancy and her contribution for care home costs.

Any help will be much appreciated. I will be happy to provide more information if this helps.

If this thread is in the wrong section, many apologies!

Cheers

John F.

 

[Violet Jane]

Speak to the bank. If they won’t take action then speak to the Council. Your brother urgently needs to find out his rights (if any) in relation to taking over the tenancy.

 

[thistlejak]

First thing I would do it get your brother to pay the new rent amount and the council tax to the council and get the direct debits from your mum's account stopped. Your mum is not living there so she is not liable for any rent or council tax. Who is paying the other bills?
If you cancel direct debits you have to notify the payee - in this case the council - because they can reinstate a direct debit if you don't notify them , so it is possible they they can cancel them from their end.

As you mum appears to be , at least, part funded by the LA - does she only get state pension or does she have other income?
If she only has state pension then you can apply to be an Appointee - this allows you to receive her pension and pay out any expenses for her.
If she has other income unfortunately your only route with be Deputyship - where you apply to the Court of Protection to be given permission to administer her financial affairs.

Sorry to pose more questions than I have given answers to your situation .

 

[John F]

Thanks for the replies so far.

My brother does not have the money to pay any household bills as he is not working at present. I do not know if he has discuss the rent and council tax with the housing officer? My mum pays all the bills!

I was told that I could not cancel my mum's direct debits as l was not a power of attorney.

As well as her state pension, my mum receives a private pension every month due to my dad passing away several years ago.

I have forms to be an Appointee.

 

[thistlejak]

As your mum has income other than a state pension you are going to need Deputyship to sort that out as you won't be able to access the account that it is paid into , or alter which account it goes to, even if you get her state pension paid into an Appointee account.
Appointeeship is quicker to sort out , and doesn't cost anything, and would give you control over that part of her income but won't get you access to her accounts.
Deputyship took us about 4 1/2 months to get and that was pre Covid.

You may need to be careful spending your mum's money on housing and bills for somewhere she is not living if the LA are contributing to her care costs or will be soon , as it might be considered deprivation of assets.

It might be worth helping your brother to sort out his situation as it will sort some of your mum's out as well.

 

[canary]

Ther was a problem with OHs and my bank account that needed us both to be there, but unfortunately OH was not physically able to get to the bank. I was told that if he wrote a letter to the bank saying what he wanted to happen this would be accepted.

If you wrote a letter to the bank asking for the direct debits to be cancelled, do you think your mum would have the capacity to sign it?

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

Much will depend on whether your brother is able to take over the tenancy. If not, he'll have to move out. I appreciate that within families, such things as who pays the rent and bills is often not formally sorted out and often one person - in this case your mother - ends up paying for everything. But that can't continue now she has moved into permanent care - your brother should be paying.

If he's allowed to take over the tenancy, then obviously the rent and all bills will fall to him, whether he's able to pay them or not....

And as has been said, in order to manage your mum's accounts, etc, you'll need to apply for deputyship. I believe the cost for doing this can be taken from her funds once you have access. Good luck...

 

[Banjomansmate]

I think if you inform the LA that your mother is no longer residing at the property then they will cancel the Direct Debit as they are the ones who set it up and decide how much money is taken each month.
Your brother will have to sort out his own residential problems with the LA, possibly moving to a smaller/cheaper property? He may get Housing Benefit if his income is too low.

 

[John F]

My brother seems to be confident that he can take over the tenancy after discussing the latter with the housing officer. I am not so sure!

I did let the relevant LA departments know about my mum being made permanent as soon as l knew. That was back at beginning of March. The Income office told me either the housing office or social services can cancel the direct debits. Both departments have not responded to my several calls!

I spoke to the financial assessment team of the LA and they have told me a letter was sent out to my mum's old address regarding her contribution to the care home costs but my brother insists that he received no such letter! I asked last week for a copy of the letter to be sent to me. I am still waiting for it to arrive.

 

[MartinWL]

Hi @John F welcome to the forum. Firstly as you are not an attorney for your mother you cannot give her bank any instructions at all. Possibly you could get your mother to sign a letter from her to the bank instructing the bank to cancel the direct debits.

Your brother has now got to stand on his own feet, get a job or claim benefits if unable to work. When someone does become a deputy for your mother they will have a duty to ensure she does not use her money to support your brother as an attorney or deputy must act only in her interests.

Things are going to be difficult until you or someone else is able to manage your mother’s affairs as Deputy.

 

[Shedrech]

Hello @John F
A warm welcome to DTP

You seem to have done your best to let the various LA depts know of your mum's current situation.... you mention calls, it may be worth sending emails to each dept with all the issues mentioned ( eg rent, council tax, care home fees, ending the tenancy, your brother still being in the property as single occupant but not paying bills) so each dept explicitly has notification of the others involved... it may prompt them to work together and get a move on

Should you not go ahead and apply for Deputyship, the LA will apply to the OPG for a professional Deputy to be appointed and both LA and Deputy will want your mum's finances sorted out... they will probably not give much consideration to your brother not paying bills which are no longer your mum's responsibility so it may be a way to get him to understand the new situation he is in without you having to be the one to deal with him

 

[John F]

Update:

My brother has received a notice to quit the property in two weeks (so has my mum as well).

I have stopped most of the direct debits in my mum's account. The gas/electricity DD is proving the most difficult to cancel as l cannot get though by telephone. The Housing Office also informed me that both rent and council tax payments have been cancelled.

I am in process in sorting out which items to keep and what to throw out. What will happen to any items of furniture if these are too big to move? Will the council remove them?

I have been told by the LA financial assessment team that I can have a deputyship without paying any fees because my mum has not enough asserts. Is this true ?

If l can think of any more questions, l will post them.

 

[nitram]

What will happen to any items of furniture if these are too big to move? Will the council remove them?

Most likely, yes.

I have been told by the LA financial assessment team that I can have a deputyship without paying any fees because my mum has not enough asserts. Is this true ?

Maybe, rules are >>>here<<<
I don't think the necessary >>>statement of capacity<<<> is included, I may be wrong.

 

[Banjomansmate]

The council will probably charge you for removing anything left in the house.
Do they have a furniture recycling scheme whereby they accept what they consider to be “useful” items for financially challenged residents? They take what they want then charge you for removing the rest!

 

[jennifer1967]

if the council has to clear the home, they will bill you highly. you could get a charity to see if they want it. we have basics bank that picks up furniture and give it to people that havent got anything. there are strict rules about who can take over tenancy. cross posted with @Banjomansmate if you pay the council, they will pick up items.

 

[ADT79]

Hello,

I am a new member. Please could anyone help me with the following problem?

My mum was diagnosed with dementia in October 2019. This year, she moved permanently into a care home this February following an assessment period.

During the assessment period, it was decided she has not got the capability to make her own decisions. As nobody did not have the power of attorney at this time, it will be difficult for me to look after her finances now.

Mum was a council tenant. I had set up direct debits to pay both her rent and council tax. My brother still lives in mum's house and has spoken to the housing officer regarding the tenancy.

Once mum was permanently in the care home for six weeks, her attendance allowance and housing benefits were stopped. This means both her rent and council tax went up a significant amount as she is still on the tenancy agreement for now! She has a limited amount of funds in her bank account but these are not enough to cover the increase of both rent and council tax monthly payments over a period of time.

The advice l require is who should l speak to in regarding stopping the direct debits for both rent and council tax plus other financial matters? As l think it is not right to expect mum to pay both for the tenancy and her contribution for care home costs.

Any help will be much appreciated. I will be happy to provide more information if this helps.

If this thread is in the wrong section, many apologies!

Cheers

John F.

could you call the companies with your mum present to at least cancel the DD's? she could authorise it if you say that you are there helping your mum? its worth a try?

 

[Lynmax]

Have you tried using the Live Chat option with the energy companies? I gave up trying to speak to someone when I was 162 in the queue but the Live Chat robot thingy sorted out the issue with my direct debit immediately.

 

[John F]

Many thanks for your replies.

I finally contacted the gas/electricity company and told them about mum's situation. They have closed down her account and will send me the final bill but left open the direct debit option which I am not so sure about.

I am not happy with the council as they have taken out of my mum's bank account a further month's rent of over £500 despite assurances from the housing office that they would cancel any further payments! I called the income office to ask why another payment was taken. They said to call the DD team but I explained that l cannot cancel the DD as I am not the power of attorney. I also found out that the rent is still in arrears by £300 or odd pounds. This is very strange as I thought the reason you took out DD that you would keep in credit and also I thought payments were made in advance.

I called a charity shop regarding collection of furniture. I sent photos of the items. They will call me back on Friday to discuss collection.

 

[jennifer1967]

Many thanks for your replies.

I finally contacted the gas/electricity company and told them about mum's situation. They have closed down her account and will send me the final bill but left open the direct debit option which I am not so sure about.

I am not happy with the council as they have taken out of my mum's bank account a further month's rent of over £500 despite assurances from the housing office that they would cancel any further payments! I called the income office to ask why another payment was taken. They said to call the DD team but I explained that l cannot cancel the DD as I am not the power of attorney. I also found out that the rent is still in arrears by £300 or odd pounds. This is very strange as I thought the reason you took out DD that you would keep in credit and also I thought payments were made in advance.

I called a charity shop regarding collection of furniture. I sent photos of the items. They will call me back on Friday to discuss collection.

that would be true if the DD is the right amount but also there maybe arrears before the DD was arranged.