Mrs Thatcher film and dementia

[alex]

Mrs Thatcher has dementia (that’s a fact)

I’m not sure why someone would want to make a film of her life and hide that fact other than to cry indignity, well sorry but to me that’s a cop-out...........I admire Margaret Thatcher with or without Dementia.
Love her or loathe her, It does not detract from her achievements of taking over the running of this Country amid the turmoil of an energy crisis, a miners’ strike and the three-day week, as well as taking on the unions and making home ownership possible for many, not to mention opening the door to high powered jobs for women around the world.

Yes she ordered the sinking of the Belgrano.......on the information from the MOD that it was a threat to our troops.

Political rant over and going back to the point of whether the Dementia should have been included in the film.......well why not? I am not ashamed of my mum having Dementia, I’m very proud of my mum and I will shout it from the rooftops at every opportunity.......... SHE HAS DEMENTIA AND I’M PROUD OF HER.........and if Carol Thatcher is half the woman her mother was she will shout it too.

There can be no better awareness than us all shouting it............and I’m ashamed to say that the only indignity in Dementia.......is ours.

Alex

 

[Tender Face]

and if Carol Thatcher is half the woman her mother was she will shout it too.

Alex (I can’t sleep either tonight!) ... there have been biopics before about The Iron Lady – I think – could well be wrong - what makes this so significant is the emphasis now on her dementia – not her political life and you have just raised something which touches such a personal nerve with me regarding Carol Thatcher.

As carers/daughters/sons/spouses many of us know what it is like to agonise over consent over different issues ... (and you probably more than most, I recall in one instance) where privacy and raising awareness start to fudge ... where taking part in research, just one example, might become intrusive .....where helping others is ..... mind blowingly awful to contemplate against your own losses .....

It takes a lot of courage to have the conviction that you are doing right by those who are unable to give consent. I have read mutterings from some of Mrs T’s ‘friends’ that she is not entirely happy about this film .... then again, who is to judge just what her own level of awareness is ... and is that not likely to now be Carol Thatcher who is best placed to make that judgement, in which case, hats off to her for having such courage? How is Abi Morgan sleeping in her bed tonight etc etc?

I have been back-tracking since news of this film about Ronald Reagan (who first introduced Alzheimer’s into my vocabulary watching news of him ‘fluffing lines’ and the subsequent public announcement of his diagnosis). Nancy Reagan announced his withdrawal from public view/life soon after as she claimed it would have been his wish to ‘have been remembered as he was’. No-one saw anything other than him becoming a bit forgetful and muddled until his death was announced years later? (and yes, the cruel jibes followed, of course, about his abilities pre-Alzheimer’s, but through that withdrawal of a very public figure, the later stages of Alzheimer’s were ‘hidden away’ – the ‘forgetting stuff’ being the only apparent issue and indeed that ignorance and misconception stayed with me for many years after, to my shame).

Interesting the Thatcher family – or certainly Carol – has made quite the opposite judgement in terms of openness about Mrs T’s dementia? I know who I applaud. But I have to respect each personal decision, too.

You stay proud of that mum, Alex. You are so right. There is no shame in dementia. Only for those who you would expect to know better - and there are a lot out there - and recognise its lack of discrimination across all cultures, races, gender, sexuality, political standpoints, intelligence levels, whatever ..... and encompass all sufferers and their carers in trying to offer support in whatever form.

Right – will go away and stop posting again now!

Karen, x

 

[achidgey]

I saw the film yesterday. The cinema was jam packed with people of all ages.

It did surprise me that so much of the film was about dementia. The whole thing is seen through the eyes of Mrs Thatcher in older age reminiscing with dementia. I did think it was done tastefully and sensitively done though. Dementia is a part of life. We shouldn't hide it away because hiding it makes it even more difficult for people.

Commentators seem to have very mixed views about portraying Mrs Thatcher's dementia. Boris Johnson has written in today's Daily Telegraph that he thought it was a sensitive portrayal of dementia although he felt there was too much dementia in the film. Douglas Hurd says it is ghoulish and Steve Norris says it is shameful. I suppose those who were/are closely connected to Mrs Thatcher are bound to have strong opinions.

Historical accuracy in the film? Not really. But interesting entertainment and Meryl Streep is very convincing. I'd encourage people to go and see it and share further views.

Best wishes

Andrew

 

[Loopiloo]

Andrew wrote:

Douglas Hurd says it is ghoulish and Steve Norris says it is shameful. I suppose those who were/are closely connected to Mrs Thatcher are bound to have strong opinions.

Somewhat extreme... "ghoulish" and "shameful". Hurd and Norris sound like remnants from the past Victorian and Edwardian eras.

Boris Johnston's comment was more realistic:

" The dementia stuff was actually quite tastefully done - a sensitive treament of an important reality for millions of families."

Apparently his only criticism was that there was too much of it.

For me, Jim Broadbent really said it all:

Jim Broadbent is bemused. The controversy surrounding The Iron Lady, which opened last week and in which he plays Denis Thatcher, is simply beyond him.
"I don't really get it," Broadbent muses. "I think it's good that dementia is up for discussion. It's about taking away the taboo and fear of it, acknowledging it as a condition which so many of us have experienced and will experience. With any other disability, such as a physical disability, that would be up for grabs, but there's still some sort of resistance to mental illness being shown: people think it's intrusive, but I don't; I think that shouldn't be the case really."

Loo

 

[Jill C]

A lady with dementia.

Hi Everyone
I hadnt realised that this film actually included the issue of Baroness Thatcher's dementia, so I might just give it a watch now, as I hadnt previously planned to. If it raises the issue of dementia, then well done, its certainly got us talking.

I think that one issue that has arisen for me whilst reading this thread is that of our personal history. Many of us have strong feelings about what happened in those 'Thatcher' years, some good, some bad, but can we let these colour our opinion or attitude towards a lady with dementia? I know that our history makes us who we are, and that those with dementia can dwell and become fixed at points in their history, but really we need to follow their lead into their past and not let our perceptions of their past dictate our approach to them.

I hope that if Baroness Thatcher should need someone to hold her hand and make her feel safe and loved, that that someone is there for her and can live with her in the moment without dwelling on her past.

Jill

 

[TinaT]

It seems unsatisfactory to me that the only two films I can recall concerning English women suffering from Az are the current Thatcher film and the film about Iris Murdoch. Both women had/have plenty of money so that the caring aspect of the disease was not compounded by money worries or getting access to the care they need/needed. The only other films I have seen which touch in any way on dementia are oversentimentalised American twaddle, again portraying financially comfortably off people

Films do not portray ordinary people living ordinary lives struggling to cope with dementia and no matter how sympathetically portrayed and touching the current film, it scratches the surface of what real life reality is for the majority of carerer and cared for. It amazes me that some creative, talented person has not been able to produce a filmscript depicting the disease and its effects in an ordinary family. With all the problems and dramas this creates as I'm sure it would make a film worth seeing.

I'm not sure whether anyone can ever get a true picture or insight into this deasese from films so far and do not think in this respect they are of any value in furthering the cause of dementia sufferers and carers.

xxTinaT

 

[jenniferpa]

I think there's a difference between raising awareness about dementia and raising awareness about the care situation of people with dementia. I think films like this do raise awareness of dementia in that they show it can affect anyone, no matter how famous, well off, and well educated they are.

 

[Jancis]

Money can't buy love

Money can buy more care it's true, however, not in my Uncle's case as he didn't want care, he just wanted to be on his own and to be free to let nature take it's course. It's such a tragic disease that all the money in the world cannot cure. And money can't buy love (which is the route of care). The sector of society I feel sorry for are those who have no family or friends who love them.

This is a great discussion.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

Films do not portray ordinary people living ordinary lives struggling to cope with dementia and no matter how sympathetically portrayed and touching the current film, it scratches the surface of what real life reality is for the majority of carerer and cared for.

I think that films rarely portray ordinary people living ordinary lives ever. Most of them are escapist material and I do understand the need for that type of film. But in terms of dramatic tension and so on, I think we are very unlikely to ever see a film about ordinary people. That's where documentaries fill in the gap.

At least a film about dementia, done with reasonable accuracy and taste, is better than no portrayal or one of those full of stereotypes.

 

[Loopiloo]

Films do not portray ordinary people living ordinary lives struggling to cope with dementia and no matter how sympathetically portrayed and touching the current film, it scratches the surface of what real life reality is for the majority of carerer and cared for. It amazes me that some creative, talented person has not been able to produce a filmscript depicting the disease and its effects in an ordinary family. With all the problems and dramas this creates as I'm sure it would make a film worth seeing.xxTinaT

Yes it probably would make a film worth seeing. But who would go to see it? Very likely ordinary people living ordinary lives and struggling to cope with dementia.

I doubt if a film about ordinary people with loved ones who have/had dementia would attract an audience of people who have no connection whatsoever with dementia and who have no knowledge of the disease. Sadly, when it comes to raising awareness of dementia through films there has to be something that will attract an audience; someone with a high profile.

The British Iris Murdoch and Margaret Thatcher were/are high profile. Both true stories. There was the American film, I think it was fiction (?), 'Away From Her' but it starred Julie Christie, a well known actress with a following of admirers. ( I was not impressed by that film about dementia)

I agree with Jennifer here. Such films featuring well known people with dementia do stand a chance of raising awareness in audiences.

Yesterday, 06:40 PMjenniferpa I think films like this do raise awareness of dementia in that they show it can affect anyone, no matter how famous, well off, and well educated they are. .

Loo

 

[Loopiloo]

I agree, Joanne, about documentaries and probably TV is a better medium concerning reaching a wide audience. But yes, better a controversial film about a high profile person with dementia than no film at all.

Loo

 

[alex]

Hi Tina

I don’t think a film of an ordinary family coping with dementia would be a box office hit or attract top stars tipped for Oscar nominations, let alone the amount of politicians, worldwide dignitaries and even the Royal Family who will no doubt see this film.......so as far as raising awareness goes, it gets my vote every time.

Alex x

 

[Countryboy]

Mrs Thatcher

Hi If you go to this site www.simplesite.com/BarrysAlzheimers
you can get information written by people who are themselves
living with dementia and as the saying goes their wearing the T shirt
a lot of dementia suffers do have and live a good life remember to late when
your six feet under

Tony

 

[Monz]

I have not yet seen the film but will do. Like many of you I was not a fan of Margaret I do feel sad that Margaret Thatcher herself might not be happy about the film portraying her as she is. However I do think the importance of the film is that it raises awareness of dementia which outweighs any harm it might do. As a public figure Margaret Thatcher can do more good for the cause than anyone who is not famous. I would hope that she would be happy to know she is helping her fellow sufferers.

My husband has dementia but is not aware of his illness and when its necessary for me to make decisions for him I struggle because I constantly think what would he want, how would he have decided and is what I have decided taking away his dignity and self respect. Its not like making a decision for a child.

We are getting better at treating people with physical disabilities with the respect and dignity they deserve like anyone else. However, with dementia its easy to forget the person is still there. They are but just locked away in their mind somewhere and you just need to dig deeper to find out what they really want. Obviously as the condition deteriorates its harder to reach them but we have to keep trying as much as possible. I sometimes find myself talking about my husband as if he was not there which is shameful. Even though people with dementia may not follow everything they still need to be treated with respect to the very last.

Monica

 

[cornish]

Hello All

I went to see the film today, and i had mixed thoughts about Mrs Thatcher before, but I found the film very uspetting but so well written and such good quality acting, If the film was the exact truth about what exactly happened when she was in power, I really can understand why she made a lot of the choices she did, and if It was the truth, I also think she may have been the best primeminester in the last 40+years.
Superb film I thought.

Some may not agree, but life is to short to hold blame and dislike, one thing I feel we can all agree on is no one person or family deserves to suffer with Dementia/Alzheimers no matter what they have done in life.

Thanks, Ryan.

 

[susiesue]

I saw the film last week and was very impressed with the way it told Mrs Thatcher's story. I thought Meryl Streep was absolutely brilliant, not only in the way she must have studied Mrs Thatcher, but she must also have studied dementia too.

I too have nothing but admiration for Mrs Thatcher and wish our politicians today had some of the guts she had - perhaps we might not be in the terrible situation we are in today. Of course she upset some people but I do believe she meant well.

The theme of dementia runs through the whole film and I thought it was treated very sympathetically, but of course was upsetting to watch. However if this is the only way we can raise awareness, then only good can come from it.

 

[creativesarah]

I wish someone had filmed our lives on a day to day, night by night basis to get a true picture - no one would have wanted to see it though - we were ordinary people, of no interest to the general public

You Elaine are not an ordinary person
and it would have been of interest to loads of people !
Lots of support

Sarah

 

[maryw]

I found this an interesting review by Max Pemberton, the Daily Telegraph's "inhouse" doctor. He raises some interesting points, particularly this one:

"This is what angered me most about The Iron Lady. It is representative of how society largely views elderly people, particularly those with dementia. They are ignored."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-despicable-film-makes-voyeurs-of-us-all.html

 

[danny]

That is a really good article Margaret. Not seen the film yet but will.

Not sure for once where I lie with this.Will comment after seeing it.

 

[alex]

Hi

As stated earlier, i have not seen the film yet, but can’t wait until next weekend when I hopefully will see it.

Thanks for the link Maryw, I personally don’t agree with most of it but will wait until I see the film before commenting further, the only thing I will say up to now is that Max Pemberton has experience of working with dementia patients, I would give more weight to his views if he lived with it.

Those with dementia experience a loss, not just of their memory and cognition, but of respect and dignity.

Totally disagree, there is no dementia in this world that would cause me to lose respect for my Mum and I certainly would not lose respect for what Mrs. Thatcher achieved just because she has Dementia, so maybe Max Pemberton should question why he feels there would automatically be a loss of respect for someone suffering dementia????? ..........and as said in an earlier thread, the only indignity in Dementia is ours.
I am surprised that a Doctor working with Dementia has this kind of attitude

As people with dementia decline, they are no longer deemed worthy of attention or thought. As far as society is concerned, they are already history.

That is exactly what we are fighting to change..........and hopefully this film will go some way towards changing attitudes in the society he talks about.

Alex