Mrs Thatcher film and dementia

[achidgey]

I've just been on London radio discussing the new film The Iron Lady in which Meryl Streep portrays former Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher, including her dementia. I haven't seen the film yet but will go and see it. Some people are very angry and say that it is shameful to portray someone who is still alive with dementia. I do wonder myself whether it is fair to intrude into the private family experiences of people who are no longer in private life. However, I also have some concern that failure to acknowledge dementia risks hiding it away when we need people to talk about it. What do others think?

Best wishes

Andrew

 

[Grannie G]

Carol Thatcher made it known officially her mother has Alzheimer`s so no secrets are being betrayed.

The more the general public is shown how many [supposedly] intelligent people can be affected by dementia, the better for all who suffer with it.

 

[Contrary Mary]

However, I also have some concern that failure to acknowledge dementia risks hiding it away when we need people to talk about it.

And to dispel the myth that it is just a memory problem and a nuisance, rather than the evil disease that it is.

 

[florence43]

I was also listening to the same radio programme...and was absorbing the mixed reaction. I never like to have hard and fast opinions until I've got a little perspective. My gut feeling is that it's a good thing to show how dementia affects all and any... I know there's an issue with Mrs Thatcher herself not giving consent, but in a way, doesn't that sum up the side of dementia we all face, as carers? We all become their voice and do and say what we think is right.

I can only assume her daughter is no different.

I don't like it when people are afraid or disturbed by dementia, and I wonder if this is the case here? Wait until she has died? That's what many are saying...but what's the difference? Out of respect? Maybe, but any film or programme, book or campaign that raises awareness can surely only help both sufferers and carers alike? A public understanding of a cruel disease can possibly be achieved by a high profile film...so over all I see it as a good thing.

Not sure if I can see it yet though. Part of me feels it's too soon after losing mum, but the other part of me comes on TP every day, and will never forget what mum went through, so maybe I can. But I'll probably wait for it to come to dvd!

 

[sussexsue]

My dilemma about seeing it is slightly different. I have also thought of Thatcher as an extremely unpleasant woman pre-dementia - confirmed by several people I know who have met her socially. She also caused a lot of distress and anguish to people during her political life, so I can't raise much sympathy for her. As such I have no wish to see a film about her.

If her children are happy about it, then I dont see a problem.

 

[sistermillicent]

I am not able to comment on the film as I haven't seen it. I did see a picture in the paper quite a while ago, a year maybe, of John Major holding Margaret Thatcher's hand during a service in Westminster Abbey or St Pauls, I can't remember what service it was but it was full of dignitaries.

I found this very touching, I could see from it that things were not "right" with her, (no pun intended) it showed a real vulnerable side and I felt sad for her, believe me I was no fan. Who knows whether she would have wanted this photo to be published, but it spoke volumes about what she must be going through. I hope they used that moment in the film.

Pippa

 

[nicoise]

Another aspect of this story for me is that it also shows that dementia does not differentiate between educated/non-educated, rich/poor, celebrity/private citizen, prime minister/unskilled labourer; whatever your life story it can affect anyone, and its effects in terms of family and wider relationships are felt by everyone involved.

As for any of the publicity in recent news stories about Mrs Thatcher's children and their Christmas holiday arrangements, we always have to take what we read in the press with a pinch of salt. We are only ever told what someone chooses to tell us.

 

[Jancis]

I haven't seen the film yet but wonder if a film about Mrs T would be as interesting if she had not suffered the tragic effects of dementia?

 

[DeborahBlythe]

Some people are very angry and say that it is shameful to portray someone who is still alive with dementia. I do wonder myself whether it is fair to intrude into the private family experiences of people who are no longer in private life.

I felt the same about this film, because I had heard that Mrs Thatcher was herself unhappy with the film, and whilst her family may or may not have agreed to the film going forward, I thought that the dignity of the person with dementia would be by-passed, for monetary gain. I did hear Meryl Streep talking about the film on Radio 4 Woman's Hour earlier this week and saying fairly convincingly that it was a very respectful film.

So I went to see it this afternoon, and by chance, on my way home afterwards, I heard a review of it broadcast on Radio 4 Saturday Live. .bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01944k7

By the end of it, I was very bowled over, or at least my scruples were. Meryl Streep was staggeringly good as Mrs Thatcher and her portrayal of a woman with dementia was also very affecting. The scenes with her daughter Carol (Olivia Colman) were wonderful. The quality of the acting and its truthfulness for me as the daughter of a mother with dementia felt very profound.

I had to agree with the reviewers who said that you wouldn't turn to this film for political acuity or historical veracity. (There appeared to be no other female MPs in the House of Commons in the scenes in Parliament, at a time when in fact there were at least 25 other female MPs). The first parts of the film really do Mrs Thatcher a lot of favours, but then again, there she was, the first female Prime Minister, and she did have to battle her way to get where she was. That much is true.

However much one may have disliked Mrs Thatcher during her heyday, it is impossible not to feel sympathy for her as a frail older lady with dementia. And that is the conundrum. One of the reviewers on Saturday Review said, 'This film treats Mrs Thatcher as if she were dead, simply because she has dementia. She isn't dead. She has dementia'. They wouldn't have made the film if she hadn't had dementia and can be deemed to be a non-person.

If I thought the proceeds of this film were actually going to support the fight to combat dementia or raise awareness in any meaningful way about Alzheimers, I think I would rest more easily tonight. But I did enjoy the film, so I won't be losing too much sleep.

 

[alex]

I would totally disagree with what’s been said, I have total admiration for Mrs. Thatcher. I think she was the best PM we have had and I’d vote for another like her, because whoever that might be - they couldn’t make a worse job than the PM’s since.
I have not seen the film yet but look forward to seeing it. I have however listened to the reviews, interviews etc.
I think the film is about her life not her dementia, but if it was left out then it would only portray the part of her life as a politician rather than the truth about her whole life.

Alex

 

[Amy]

Ha ha Alex....the bit that you disagreed with has gone!!!!. Thought I had better say that, as everyone else might be wondering what they have said for you to disagree with.

Amy x

 

[Jancis]

Thank you Deborah for your excellent and interesting review of the film. Nice to hear from Mrs T supporters too. And I'm sure there are others who care about her - now - as she has involuntarily joined the twilight world of dementia.

 

[beech mount]

Why feel sympathy for her now? she was hardly sympatico whem she was in office, lets not make her into a saint now that she has this illness,it killed my wife and she was a much nicer person than "Mrs T".
John.

 

[jenniferpa]

Because I hope we can feel sympathy for anyone who is suffering, no matter what our views might be about their previous lives.

 

[beech mount]

But we are alowed our views? lets not forget the sinking of the Belgrano.
John.

 

[jenniferpa]

Provided they don't contravene our T & Cs.

3.2 Messages must not be obscene, defamatory or libellous, inflammatory, vulgar, sexually orientated, racial, political, hateful, threatening, in violation of any laws or good morals and practice or personally abusive.

 

[beech mount]

Jeniferpa, i dont think i have broken any of the above rules, however if my posts are removed that could be construed as "hatefull" by the person requesting the removel of them,just a thought!
John.

 

[Loopiloo]

My thanks also, Deborah, for your interesting review of the film 'The Iron Lady'.

I tried your link to listen to the Radio4 Saturday Live review but it didn't work, then spent a while trying to get it but in vain. Although I have read some of the film's reviews.

One of the reviewers on Saturday Review said, 'This film treats Mrs Thatcher as if she were dead, simply because she has dementia. She isn't dead. She has dementia'.

I was interested in that - in what way the film treats Mrs Thatcher as if she were dead.

My personal interest is that this is an attitude I have encountered since my husband went into a care home on 30th May last year after six months in hospitals following a hip fracture, plus other health problems. People enquired about him when he was in hospital, not all of them may have known he has dementia. But since he went into the care home people behave as if he were dead. They talk to me but never mention my husband.

The only people who ask about my husband and actually refer to him having dementia are those who themselves have or have had a close loved one or a close friend with dementia. Others do not refer to him at all.

I so want to say those words "He is not dead. He has dementia"

I do wonder myself whether it is fair to intrude into the private family experiences of people who are no longer in private life. However, I also have some concern that failure to acknowledge dementia risks hiding it away when we need people to talk about it. What do others think?
Best wishes
Andrew

I understand your mixed feelings. However, Carol Thatcher brought her mother's dementia into the public domain when she wrote her biography about her mother. I have not read the book so do not know what she wrote. She surely must also have given her approval concerning the film.

If my husband had been a widely known eminent public figure I would have wanted to write about his dementia. I would have wanted to bring it out of the closet rather than hide it away, and I know he would have fully approved. We do need people to talk about it.

I agree with what Annie/Florence43 wrote:

I don't like it when people are afraid or disturbed by dementia, and I wonder if this is the case here? Wait until she has died? That's what many are saying...but what's the difference? Out of respect? Maybe, but any film or programme, book or campaign that raises awareness can surely only help both sufferers and carers alike? A public understanding of a cruel disease can possibly be achieved by a high profile film...so over all I see it as a good thing.

I do not think it is insensitive to have included Mrs Thatcher's illness in the film about her life. It is part of her later life and it is known to the public that she has dementia. From what I have read it has been handled sensitively in the film, and since her daughter Carol has written about it, talked about it in public, presumably gave her approval concerning the film, then surely it cannot be regarded as an intrusion into the family's privacy?

Loo

 

[elaine n]

I haven't seen the film yet, like Annie, I'm not sure I'm ready to watch something so emotive where dementia is concerned but whatever I feel about Margaret Thatcher, I wouldn't wish this disease on my worst enemy. I do feel, however, that anything that raises the awareness of the true meaning of dementia to the public- and how better than a film about a high profile figure, can only help us. I wish someone had filmed our lives on a day to day, night by night basis to get a true picture - no one would have wanted to see it though - we were ordinary people, of no interest to the general public

 

[Tender Face]

Many of us are angry or disturbed still by our own losses but that anger should surely not be targetted at someone who is now a very frail and vulnerable woman – whether you agreed with her politics or liked her personality or not – who is now battling the demons her own particular dementia brings?

It is a tragedy to lose anyone you love to this disease. You know that, we all do here. It’s why I had resolved to go see this film even on my own this week but have decided I might be better served with a huge box of tissues in the privacy of my own home before watching it when it’s available on DVD and not trying to think of this ‘Iron Lady’ – whether I liked her or her politics or not – reduced to the fragile, confused little lady that could have been my own mother a few years ago.

That is my huge worry about this film. That people will say – well – ‘She gave the order to sink the Belgrano’ so it’s tough!’ That people might say ‘Oh well look – it proves she was already losing her mind when she made XY or Z decision’ ....... and it could all go horribly pear-shaped because of some people’s vitriol about her political past (if they didn’t agree with her) when an OSCAR winning film (which it is already tipped to be) has to be the greatest medium for raising awareness globally (even if that means a lot of debate, but in itself that promotes awareness if just through discussion).

There is a lot of uneasiness on my part about the film, consent and privacy issues .... then again I believe it could be the greatest legacy Mrs T and her family – as well as the filmmakers etc etc - may have gifted us all in making dementia awareness so high profile on a world stage.

(Elaine n – just seen your post between typing this and you have said it all far more succinctly and eloquently than me. Bless you).

Karen, x