It might be time for a care home ...

[Amorphia]

I called my mum today and she was beyond tired after having a tough night and day with my dad. We had discussed moving them back to Cyprus where they're originally from as she would have more support and finances would last a lot longer but I now don't think that's going to be possible. It might be time for a care home. Hoping someone can answer a couple of questions:

1. Do you just pick a home and get them moved in and then worry about if the LA will fund afterwards? Dad can self fund for a few months. Or should we ask the LA for a list of care homes to choose from?

2. As I mentioned, Dad only has self-care funds for a few months. The house is in his name but my mum lives there so the LA can't throw her out. Neither mum or I have enough to provide top up fees. If we refuse to pay Top Up fees, what happens?

3. Dad never put the house in joint names. Mum & dad have been married for over 50 years but he bought the house before they married and I guess he never thought of changing the ownership to both their names. Let's say the house is worth £300,000 and the LA ends up paying £400,000 for his care. I understand they will take the money from the sale of the house (when mum dies) to recoup whatever they've paid out but if the sale of the house doesn't cover the full amount they paid do they expect to get that extra £100,000 back from someone?

I'm so stressed thinking about everything and not knowing how to proceed.

 

[Grannie G]

Hello @Amorphia.

Your mum needs a carers assessment and your parents need a financial assessment by Social Services who will answer all your questions.

The Care Needs Assessment Explained | Age UK

You will need to complete the Care Needs Assessment in order to be eligible for support from social services. Find out more from Age UK.

www.ageuk.org.uk

Care homes: When is the right time and who decides?

Advice and practical tips for carers on when is the right time for a person to be moved to a care home.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[canary]

Hi @Amorphia

In answer to your questions

1) As your dad wont be self-funding for long, get SS to do a needs assessment and financial assessment as grannie g's post. Questions are best asked of the financial assessor - SWs dont always get answers to financial questions right.
There is nothing to stop you going round and looking at care homes now and talking to the managers so that you know what is available and which ones are likely to accept him.

2) Top-up fees are "voluntary", but this does not mean that homes necessarily will accept people whose relatives cannot pay the top up. Some homes do not require a top up, some will ask for a top up and some (especially the "luxury" end of the market) will not accept LA funding at all and only want self-funders.
When you look at the homes ask them whether they accept the LA funding and what they do about top ups. Places that do not require top ups are usually quite basic and may look a bit shabby, but look beyond the decor, bells and whistles to the actual care provided. Mums care home looked shabby and old fashioned and the place OH uses for respite is very basic, but in both cases the care is wonderful

3)The house will be disregarded. This means that it wont be counted in the financial assessment so long as your mum is still living in it. This means that if your dad dies first there will be no repayment of fees from the house and it will not have to be sold. If your mum dies first while he is in a care home then the house will counted towards his assets but only from the date that she dies. I hope this makes sense and reassures your mum

 

[Banjomansmate]

If the LA will have to take on the funding for Dad’s care then they will probably offer you the choice of a couple, maybe three, Care Homes that are willing to accept your Dad. It is not just where you want someone to go but also who the Care Homes themselves want to take on, depending on needs and behaviours.

 

[Amorphia]

Thank you everyone for your kind advice and information. Much appreciated

Hi @Amorphia

3)The house will be disregarded. This means that it wont be counted in the financial assessment so long as your mum is still living in it. This means that if your dad dies first there will be no repayment of fees from the house and it will not have to be sold. If your mum dies first while he is in a care home then the house will counted towards his assets but only from the date that she dies. I hope this makes sense and reassures your mum

Thank you. I understand that eventually the LA will want their money back but what if they've paid out more than the house is worth? If my mum dies after my dad then they get their money back from the house which is totally fine but what if the LA is owed more than the house is worth? Do they just write off that debt?

I was also informed by a friend who owns a couple of care homes (too far away from mum & dad) that the LA not only wants repayment from the sale of the house but also wants interest on the payments they've made. Does anyone know if that's the case and how much interest they charge?

 

[canary]

I understand that eventually the LA will want their money back

No, if the house is disregarded they will not want their money back

If the house is no longer disregarded (because your mum dies first) then the house will only become part of your dads assets from the date that your mum dies. They will not be looking for retrospective payment during the time your mum was alive

Edit to say that I think your friend is confusing the situation with what would happen if your dad were self funded (ie your mum was dead) and the house was not sold to pay the care home fees. Usually, if the house is not disregarded, it is then sold, but the family can choose to enter a Deferred Payment Agreement. In this case, yes the LA would pay and would then need repaying (and they would indeed charge interest). This is an unusual situation and would NOT happen while your mum is alive as the house would be disregarded and the LA would never need repaying

 

[Amorphia]

No, if the house is disregarded they will not want their money back

If the house is no longer disregarded (because your mum dies first) then the house will only become part of your dads assets from the date that your mum dies. They will not be looking for retrospective payment during the time your mum was alive

Edit to say that I think your friend is confusing the situation with what would happen if your dad were self funded (ie your mum was dead) and the house was not sold to pay the care home fees. Usually, if the house is not disregarded, it is then sold, but the family can choose to enter a Deferred Payment Agreement. In this case, yes the LA would pay and would then need repaying (and they would indeed charge interest). This is an unusual situation and would NOT happen while your mum is alive as the house would be disregarded and the LA would never need repaying

Thank you for this information. Just to reiterate, the house is only on dad's name. I know they can't throw mum out while she's alive but I was under the impression that if the LA pays the care fees, if mum dies after dad and the house is sold, the LA are reimbursed whatever they've paid from the sale of the house. I'm asking because I want things to be clear in my stressed out brain!

 

[canary]

I was under the impression that if the LA pays the care fees, if mum dies after dad and the house is sold, the LA are reimbursed whatever they've paid from the sale of the house.

No, if your dad dies first the LA will not want the money that they have paid in fees back at all, because the house has been disregarded. They will not put a charge on it or anything, so when it is sold after your mum dies there will be no retrospective claim. You have been given wrong information