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Is Artifical Intelligence a viable support tool?

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,893
South coast
Intuition is surely the application of knowledge plus experience?
Probably, but it is impossible to describe. Its also known as a "lightbulb" moment, where the brain suddenly jumps at an answer without consciously going through a method of analysis. No-one really knows how it happens.
If we dont know how it happens in our own brains then its impossible to program computors to mimic it.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
1,006
High Peak
Computers use logic. Dementia does not.

Dementia symptoms are often extremely personal. They might reflect the person's upbringing or their fears and prejudices. Some have huge personality changes, others do not. PWDs are often delusional and live in a world that's very far from reality. But again, the things they obsess about or believe to be happening are very personal to them. They are affected by their environment which becomes unfamiliar to them and by the people around them. They might cling to those people or fear and resent them. They don't understand anything is wrong so they think the world around them is wrong. They are reluctant to co-operate with medical examinations, tests and scans. Their mood can change from one moment to the next - there is no consistency.

Carers must be constantly on their guard, ready for 'the next thing' whatever that might be. Rationality and logic are useless tools in the world of dementia. You have to be crafty, resourceful and always ready to fail and have to try something else.

For these reasons, I think computers and AI will only ever have limited usefulness in the field of dementia. I just don't feel sitting somone with dementia in front of a hearing tablet that will prompt speech for them is anything more than a drop in the ocean. About as much use as a pill dispenser, i.e. it might work on some occasions. It might work for a few weeks but ultimately the PWD needs people around them not machines.

Of course, if you could come up with a system that predicts when a PWD is going to soil themselves and walk it round the house, that would be great. And if the AI robot could wash and change the PWD too that would be brilliant. Diagnosis is such a small part of things. It's the years spent looking after the person with dementia that's the hard part.

Until neuroscientists can look at a brain scan and say, 'look - you can see what his thoughts are,' we still know almost nothing about brains. Being with someone who has dementia actually gives you a good view of just how amazingly complex, complicated and unbelievable our brains are.

Just my opinion...
 

kindred

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
2,524
Computers use logic. Dementia does not.

Dementia symptoms are often extremely personal. They might reflect the person's upbringing or their fears and prejudices. Some have huge personality changes, others do not. PWDs are often delusional and live in a world that's very far from reality. But again, the things they obsess about or believe to be happening are very personal to them. They are affected by their environment which becomes unfamiliar to them and by the people around them. They might cling to those people or fear and resent them. They don't understand anything is wrong so they think the world around them is wrong. They are reluctant to co-operate with medical examinations, tests and scans. Their mood can change from one moment to the next - there is no consistency.

Carers must be constantly on their guard, ready for 'the next thing' whatever that might be. Rationality and logic are useless tools in the world of dementia. You have to be crafty, resourceful and always ready to fail and have to try something else.

For these reasons, I think computers and AI will only ever have limited usefulness in the field of dementia. I just don't feel sitting somone with dementia in front of a hearing tablet that will prompt speech for them is anything more than a drop in the ocean. About as much use as a pill dispenser, i.e. it might work on some occasions. It might work for a few weeks but ultimately the PWD needs people around them not machines.

Of course, if you could come up with a system that predicts when a PWD is going to soil themselves and walk it round the house, that would be great. And if the AI robot could wash and change the PWD too that would be brilliant. Diagnosis is such a small part of things. It's the years spent looking after the person with dementia that's the hard part.

Until neuroscientists can look at a brain scan and say, 'look - you can see what his thoughts are,' we still know almost nothing about brains. Being with someone who has dementia actually gives you a good view of just how amazingly complex, complicated and unbelievable our brains are.

Just my opinion...
That is a wonderful and comprehensive analysis. Thank you, I agree so much! Warmest, Kindred
 

imthedaughter

Registered User
Apr 3, 2019
518
I suspect AI has a part to play in almost all areas of medicine, but as a tool - when someone says 'use AI to diagnose' they often are overstating it when realistically it would simply be used as a tool to assist, a bit like using the computer to update notes rather than by hand.

AI has been used to 'read' scans of 'ground glass' effect in COVID-19 patients, for example. It has a number of different things it could be used for, from digesting lots of different data and identifying patterns, again, this has been done with COVID-19 research papers, or to predict trends in future data - automatically, while we do other things like check the scans the AI has flagged. Ok I'm being flippant now but hopefully you get what I mean!

I have a client who is very interested in AI and I do their research and send them links. (You'd think they'd have sorted out some AI to do that for them by now but, happily for me, they have not.)
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
1,006
High Peak
In the early stages of dementia, we spend a lot of time wondering if something is actually wrong or if we're imagining it or making too much of something. But when you have been through years of watching/caring for a loved one with dementia, you know the difference between 'normal old age' and dementia. I don't know how, but you just know.

I bet there are many on these boards who could correctly identify dementia after talking to someone for just a few minutes yet none (few) of us have any medical training. (We wouldn't need to look at scans either!) I'm not saying we'd be able to diagnose some of the more unusual dementias, particularly in the early stages, as often they 'present' in different ways and can resemble other mental health problems or other medical conditions.

I'd even go so far as to say many of us would be better at diagnosing dementia than many GPs but we absolutely can't because we are not doctors. But I'm pretty sure we'd make a better job of it than any AI !
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
749
I am the person that purchases almost all the technology available.
I don’t have an opinion on reading scans, but in my opinion robotics will be invaluable in the future.
They will be programmed to talk in the accent of the service user.
They will answer the question ‘ when can I go home ‘ 17 thousand times with interest, politeness and respect.
I can’t wait.
Bring on the future.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
749
Anyone interested in technology especially digital health and social care here is the Topol Report from last year, it makes interesting reading:
Many thanks for taking the trouble to put up the link.
Very interesting.
One other point is we always think things will get better in the future!
why?
Am i the only person that thinks that pedestrian crossings that don’t go ‘ beep beep beep are a backward step?
And having wasted my money going to see Tenet at the cinema where you can only hear about 30 per cent of the dialogue, because that is partof the visceral experience, makes me want to start singing ‘ the king is in the all together’!
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,115
North West
Many thanks for taking the trouble to put up the link.
Very interesting.
One other point is we always think things will get better in the future!
why?
Am i the only person that thinks that pedestrian crossings that don’t go ‘ beep beep beep are a backward step?
And having wasted my money going to see Tenet at the cinema where you can only hear about 30 per cent of the dialogue, because that is partof the visceral experience, makes me want to start singing ‘ the king is in the all together’!
Thats ok.

I posted because this technology is coming and it will, replace what we know in terms of certain aspects of care. It isn't going to happen in the next few years, but by 2040 to 2050 it should be here and under continuous development.

AI is already here, many of us have it in our homes already its called Alexa. But, Alexa is not yet advanced enough nor is any other AI system. One day in the future an AI system will replace seeing your doctor and AI systems will decide what is wrong with you (in part)....its coming, whether it will be of help in dementia care remains to be seen