1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    My application for Direct Payments has been turned down on the grounds that Jean cannot legally apply for it in her own right.

    I know and can prove that carers whose wives or husbands are no position to apply have been granted Direct Payments by our Local Council

    I have written to Mp's and had the same response, no Direct Paments. I have contacted the Head of Social Dervices at Doncaster Council and have not receieved the courtesy of a response in 5 months.

    I have written to the Local Government Ombudsman to find out why the Council are not talking to me or telling me anything.

    Yesterday I had a telephone converstion with my newly appointed Social Worker.
    She openly admitted that she had been party to obtaining Direct Payments for carers where their charges are unable to apply for them due to mental illness.

    She then wentt on to say the following:-

    " If I (Grommit) were to pursue this matter further I would still not get Direct Payments as it would be against the law.

    Was I aware that Direct Payments is not a "for life" award but is subject to review and therefore, if I could get the payments now, they may be recinded at some later stage.

    Also, should I wish to pursue this matter further, was I aware that it would prompt a review of the payments at this time being illegally made to carers and that these carers may stand the chance of having the payments withdrawn"

    I need someone out there with the judgement of Solomon to help.
  2. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    Hello Grommit:

    This sounds ridiculous but I am totally ignorant. Have you thought of PMing Norman - I suspect he will know all about this.
    I hope that is in order to say this.

    Good luck Jan
  3. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    #3 TinaT, May 23, 2008
    Last edited: May 23, 2008
    Hi Grommit,

    I had a 'carer's assessment' so I'm not sure if the direct payments which we received were given for Ken or for myself as his carer. I had to open a separate bank account (in my name) and all payments were made into this account. I then wrote cheques for the care agency each month after they sent me the bills.

    At the carer's assessment it was deemed that I needed 12 hours per week where I could leave Ken with a paid carer. Some of this time was for 'shopping' and some of this was to enable me to attend a language course at the local Higher Ed institute.

    If you cannot get direct payments as a result of your wife's needs, then ask for a carer's assessment. Every LA is obliged to complete one. They have no 'get out clause' for this. You will need to stress that you need time for yourself if you are to get what you want.

    Once Direct payments was set up, the carer came in and I stayed home to help with the caring as Ken wouldn't allow me to leave. My carer was a strong, willing and lovely young man. He did lots of things for me which I don't suppose should have taken place. He mowed lawns, dug up tree roots, went shopping for me, even cleaned the windows as I find this job very difficult.

    This inequality between what one local authority are prepared to do and a neighbouring one which refuses point blank will have to be addressed soon. After all 'direct payments' are a cornerstone of the (at present) governments Social Policy!!

    Good luck Grommit in getting the help you most certainly need.

  4. May

    May Registered User

    Oct 15, 2005

    I smell rotten fish in Denmark, and the sound of someone being advised by their boss to lock the cashbox!:( ( It's not her d..med money anyway.)
    How utterly galling for a social worker to try and use what is tantamount to emotional blackmail.:mad:

    So sorry Grommit to hear you are still banging your head on the proverbial brick wall. I cannot see why it should be illegal, I presume you are Jean's epa/guardian, for monetary matters, pensions etc. in that case I'm sure you can apply for any payments needed.

    I think in this case we'll leave the baby out of it and just substitute the social worker instead...:D

    Do feel for you Grommit but have no experience of DP's, as Beckyjan said maybe Norman may have a few answers. Take care.
  5. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    Thanks for the good wishes.

    I am going to try to seek further advice over the next couple of weeks and if I can't get what I want it will be out with the chains and the padlock and fasten myself to the Mansion House railings in Doncaster.

    Keep a look out for me on the news.
  6. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005

    Before you chain yourself to the Mansion House have you tried 'The Wisdom of Norman':eek: - I hope he is not away but you may have to PM to alert him to your thread.

    Take care Jan
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    I take it from this that the implication is if you rock the boat, then you'll be dumping other carers in it and it will be your fault? Some social worker. Way to provide you with support. Frankly, while I don't wish what you are going through on any other carer, the people you have to look out for is you and your wife, not anyone else. And if to do that you've got to make waves then so be it. Logically, as well, the more people who are placed in this position, the more voices complaining and the quicker it's resolved for everyone. I'm with May - let's divide the social worker.
  8. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    #8 Margarita, May 24, 2008
    Last edited: May 24, 2008
    I get respite & join you :D .

    I can not believe what they have said to you

    Sound like they are trying to intermediate you .

    I would be asking them to show me the rule laws that say that it is illegal as they are discriminating against my mother because she Lacking the mental capacity to do it on her own , that why I am her carer, so I can do it on her behalf.


    read this . .


    ROSEANN Registered User

    Oct 1, 2006
    Dear Grommit
    I really am dumbstruck that you are told you cannot have Direct Payments after all this time.
    As I told you early on in year I get the payments for myself and also for my husband, which I got after a carers assessment.
    My husbands payments are to pay for a sitter and mine are to pay for things like going for meals out or pampering treatments or to take up training courses at collage.
    I had to open to seperate accounts and keep receipts for the things I pay for.
    Even if you cannot get them for Jean you should be able to get them for yourself, do you have a local Alzheimers support group ? or maybe the CAB can help.
    Get back to your SW and insist on a assessment for yourself if you have not had one because as Tina says every LA is obliged to give the carer one.
    Good luck Roseann
  10. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    Birmingham Hades
    #10 Norman, May 25, 2008
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
    so sorry to hear that you are still fighting for your rights.
    Following the community assessment you could claim 12 hours for yourself and a further 14 hours for Jean.
    You could then employ a personal assistant if you wished.
    From what you say it seems that someone is being very awkward and you are being pressured to drop the application.
    Next move I think is the AS help line for legal advice and then a formal complaint the the Social services department.
    The proceedure would include an independent assessor who in our case awarded in our favour.

    I understand the new Health bill has altered things and I would ask AS about this.
    Good luck,I will keep thinkink,PM if you wish
  11. Grommit

    Grommit Registered User

    Apr 26, 2006
    Thanks for the assistance everyone and the support.

    I will get back to the Social Worker although I know that she has already started talking to the Council Solicitors. she says it is to try and find a way out of this mess.

    I believe she is just stalling.

    Of course, it is Bank Holiday so nothng happens until at least Tuesday.

    I will keep you informed.
  12. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    Yeah & you tell her your going to talk to a solicitor that deals Mental health and incapacity law.

    bet she is like mine are .
  13. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
  14. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    North Derbyshire
    GRommit, this is terrible. Do try the CAB, I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago on a different matter and found them surprisingly knowledgeable, which I didn't think they would be.

    Do you have Power of Attorney?

    In which case there should be no problem.

    Gee, the system is vile.

    When I am retired, I am going to sort it all out! And I mean it! I am going to join pressure groups, political groups, anything at all. I can't be doing with all this, when people are coping with sick relatives and doing the job that the government should be doing, or at least supporting. You will see my name in the press one day as a champion for the elderly.

    No use to you now of course, but let us know how you go on.


  15. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005

    Please let us know how you get on.

    I checked on the link that Margarita left for us (thanks Maggie) - I cannot find anything which indicates whether aDirect Payment is means tested or not.

    Does anyone know the answer to that?

    Best wishes Jan
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Currently I believe it is, in the sense that all LA support is means tested. There may be some anomalies, particularly when it comes to providing support for carers, but since you can only get direct payments instead of directly provided services from the LA, you'd have to be entitled to those directly provided services, if you see what I mean. It's a big generalisation, but couples are more likely to be entitled since savings are split when calculating.
  17. gigi

    gigi Registered User

    Nov 16, 2007
    East Midlands
    I'm not sure..but I've a feeling that Direct Payments to buy in care are means tested..

    If I'm wrong then I need to take this up with with the lady from the Mental Health team who advises me about such things.

    The whole benefits system is so complicated it's beyond me how anyone manages to navigate their way through..

    Watching this thread with interest..

    Good Luck Grommit....:)

    Love gigi xx
  18. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    Hello Jennifer:

    That is what I thought at first, but since David came out of hospital I have been offered morning washing and dressing (bedtime too if we wanted it), possible 1 day per week day care, and 4 hrs sitting.

    None of the above is means tested and I wondered if I could ask for Direct Payments instead, without rocking the boat.

    There seems to be a vagueness about it.

    Best wishes Jan
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    #19 Margarita, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008

    I always thought they where not mean tested , so I look it up could only find this , but then I do not know if its a National frame work

  20. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    I think it will vary by LA and also, could this being provided by the NHS rather than the LA? I do know that if the LA is providing the service AND they provided direct payment to that "class" of recipients then you can choose to recieve direct payments. However as Grommit has found not every LA will provide direct payments to every recipient AND I don't know if something is provided to everyone and it's not means tested whether the same rules apply. I suspect not.

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