Im so confused............

annam15

New member
Oct 11, 2017
6
0
Hello ,


I really need some help as every seems to have got confusing.


My father made a will after my Mother pasted away 6 1/2 years ago, since then (4 years ago ) he has been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and Vascular Dementia.

I have been the Primary Carer for my father and have Power of attorney.

My father went into a care home 12 months ago. I visit him every week and the care home staff says he asked and talks about me every day. Nobody else visits my father.


On making his will my father appointed both me and my sister as joint executors and give us a 50/50 split share of the very little he has, he also pointed out in the will his two daughters from a previous marriage that have nothing to do with him was to not get any of the inheritance.

My sister decided to withdraw herself from my father life when he was diagnosed with Dementia, she has barely visited him in the last 4 years and shall I say isn’t in the most stable position in life, she’s in a lot of debt and rents a room in a friends house.


When my father went into the care home I had to sort out his finances, on doing this I discovered he was owed a small sum of money from social services who had stopped a joint payment when my mother died.

My father now has a small sum of approximately £25,000 in a bank account in my name.

I have not mentioned this money to my sister ( whom I don’t really talk to anyway) as I don’t want her seeing my father purely from the financial gain she will get one day.


When my father was paid this money I needed to set up a bank account to pay his care home fees from and pay his pension into. This proved difficult without his signature which he could do as he has lost mental capacity.


So a few things I needs to understand;


  1. Is it legal to have my father’s money in a bank account in my name?
  2. Does this bank account get mentioned and closed in the event of my father passing away.
  3. My sister has agreed to not be an executor so will be taken off when probate is applied for, but is probate needed for this value of money?
  4. Is there any way I can distribute some of the money to his grandchild as a gift as this is something he woud have done.

In no shape or form do I want my father’s money or want to benefit from it but I would like as he would for it to be given to grandchild as I don’t want it and I don’t feel my sister has the right after disowning him in illness to get any.


Watching my father slow disappear is something do every day/week/month/year and know he would let me deal with things has he would.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,734
0
Midlands
Hello ,


I really need some help as every seems to have got confusing.


My father made a will after my Mother pasted away 6 1/2 years ago, since then (4 years ago ) he has been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and Vascular Dementia.

I have been the Primary Carer for my father and have Power of attorney.

My father went into a care home 12 months ago. I visit him every week and the care home staff says he asked and talks about me every day. Nobody else visits my father.


On making his will my father appointed both me and my sister as joint executors and give us a 50/50 split share of the very little he has, he also pointed out in the will his two daughters from a previous marriage that have nothing to do with him was to not get any of the inheritance.

My sister decided to withdraw herself from my father life when he was diagnosed with Dementia, she has barely visited him in the last 4 years and shall I say isn’t in the most stable position in life, she’s in a lot of debt and rents a room in a friends house.


When my father went into the care home I had to sort out his finances, on doing this I discovered he was owed a small sum of money from social services who had stopped a joint payment when my mother died.

My father now has a small sum of approximately £25,000 in a bank account in my name.

I have not mentioned this money to my sister ( whom I don’t really talk to anyway) as I don’t want her seeing my father purely from the financial gain she will get one day.


When my father was paid this money I needed to set up a bank account to pay his care home fees from and pay his pension into. This proved difficult without his signature which he could do as he has lost mental capacity.


So a few things I needs to understand;


  1. Is it legal to have my father’s money in a bank account in my name?
  2. Does this bank account get mentioned and closed in the event of my father passing away.
  3. My sister has agreed to not be an executor so will be taken off when probate is applied for, but is probate needed for this value of money?
  4. Is there any way I can distribute some of the money to his grandchild as a gift as this is something he woud have done.

In no shape or form do I want my father’s money or want to benefit from it but I would like as he would for it to be given to grandchild as I don’t want it and I don’t feel my sister has the right after disowning him in illness to get any.


Watching my father slow disappear is something do every day/week/month/year and know he would let me deal with things has he would.

Its your fathers money and should be in an account in hi name, with you named as POA. It is very ill advised to have it in your name.

Its his money, when he passes away it forms part of his estate.

When the time comes, and it doesn't come until your father passes away, your sister has to fill in a for to relinquish the duty of executor, otherwise she is as liable as you for correct distribution of funds.

Putting it bluntly, you have to adhere to what your father says in his will, what you want or feel is appropriate/right or wrong, doesn't come into it
 

annam15

New member
Oct 11, 2017
6
0
Its your fathers money and should be in an account in hi name, with you named as POA. It is very ill advised to have it in your name.

Its his money, when he passes away it forms part of his estate.

When the time comes, and it doesn't come until your father passes away, your sister has to fill in a for to relinquish the duty of executor, otherwise she is as liable as you for correct distribution of funds.

Putting it bluntly, you have to adhere to what your father says in his will, what you want or feel is appropriate/right or wrong, doesn't come into it

Hi.. thank you for the reply.

How can I get an account for him set up without his signature etc?? Everywhere ive been don't allow it :(
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hello annam15
welcome to TP
I think you're wise to be wanting to sort out your father's financial affairs
as you are his Attorney and he has lost capacity to manage his affairs, you do not need his signature to deal with his accounts - what you do need to do is take your certified copy of the Document to his bank and have it registered with them to take over the running of his accounts - make an appointment and take along some photo ID with some back-up eg Council Tax bill, utility bill and something to prove your father's current residence in the care home

the amount you mention really should be in his name - so once the POA is registered with his bank/building society transfer the amount over and maybe use it to open an ISA for him, in his name, with you as Attorney to manage it
you say your father is paying the care home fees from his pension (and Attendance Allowance?) - I take it that this means he is self-funding rather than having his fees paid by the Local Authority and he then gives up his pension keeping only a small amount for expenses per week - if the LA are involved, they may not be happy to discover there is money that is your father's and which was not mentioned when the financial assessment was carried out or made known to them when it became available
an Attorney can make reasonable gifts to family members on behalf of the donor - these would be in line with any amounts your father usually gave and only if your father has savings and income easily sufficient to pay his present and future care fees - if you are asking whether you can gift £1000s away just to use up the money, probably not as the LA may deem this deliberate deprivation of your father's assets and the OPG may not think it in your father's best financial interests - best to contact the Office of the Public Guardian and ask for their input
as for the will - your father made his will and on his death it must be executed as stated - it's not really relevant for the present, and it was decided on by your father so isn't open to alteration by an Attorney whatever your sister has or hasn't done - the 2 of you may come to some agreement on your father's death and I believe this can be reflected legally at the time
you might want to have a chat with one of the operators on the AS helpline as they have a lot of knowledge and might steer you in useful directions
National Dementia Helpline
0300 222 11 22
Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm
Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm
best wishes
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
When you say you have power of attorney, you do mean you have a lasting power of attorney? And assuming so, has it been registered?
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,734
0
Midlands
What has happened to the bank account he had with your mother/of his own, before you took up attorney?
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
If you have LPA why are you stressing about opening an account for him without his signature? You as his attorney can open an account for him in his name, you just need to show the LPA to the bank! That's exactly what it's for!
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Something else concerns me here: you say you have his money in an account in your name, so I'm assuming that the LA is currently paying for his care? Because they shouldn't be I'm afraid: if they knew he had this asset then he's be self-funding. You do seem to have got yourself into a pickle here even if it was with the best of intentions. I would strongly suggest you give the AS helpline a call to see if you can get some pointers about how to sort this out without legal ramifications.

The number is 0300 222 11 22
 

annam15

New member
Oct 11, 2017
6
0
What has happened to the bank account he had with your mother/of his own, before you took up attorney?

My Father never had a join account with my Mother unfortunately.
But he does have a post office account card account.
However you are unable to pat direct debits etc from this which was why I opened the post office account in my name.
I have contact post office today to see if I can transfer the account to my father with me as the lasting POA card holder.
 

annam15

New member
Oct 11, 2017
6
0
If you have LPA why are you stressing about opening an account for him without his signature? You as his attorney can open an account for him in his name, you just need to show the LPA to the bank! That's exactly what it's for!


I tried that but they wouldn’t let me
 

annam15

New member
Oct 11, 2017
6
0
Something else concerns me here: you say you have his money in an account in your name, so I'm assuming that the LA is currently paying for his care? Because they shouldn't be I'm afraid: if they knew he had this asset then he's be self-funding. You do seem to have got yourself into a pickle here even if it was with the best of intentions. I would strongly suggest you give the AS helpline a call to see if you can get some pointers about how to sort this out without legal ramifications.

The number is 0300 222 11 22

The LA pay part of his fees but he has the majority of his pension put to cover the rest.
I have checked the asset thing a few months ago and he’s allowed to have the money for 12 money’s before the LA need to be informed of it.
They will be informed in April 2018 as that is when they need to know, they will then re- assess his assets. He will then pay a difference % as the money reduced down to the £21000 cap.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
The LA pay part of his fees but he has the majority of his pension put to cover the rest.
I have checked the asset thing a few months ago and he’s allowed to have the money for 12 money’s before the LA need to be informed of it.
They will be informed in April 2018 as that is when they need to know, they will then re- assess his assets. He will then pay a difference % as the money reduced down to the £21000 cap.

Well phew, that's a relief. But I have to say: who told you this? Because if it was the same person who told you

"He will then pay a difference % as the money reduced down to the £21000 cap."

I would be a bit cautious. Because he will be paying the total amount of his care bills until it reduces to the cap, not a percentage. Then he'll be paying £1 per £250 of savings until you get to the lower limit.

Also, I'm not saying you are wrong about holding the asset for 12 months before it needs to be reported, but that's not something I have heard before.


I'm with @Beate about the bank not knowing what they are talking about.
 

christinie355

New member
Oct 11, 2017
3
0
you have written that the cap you have is £21,000 my mother was put in dementia care on 18 August and the cap for her is 23,250 check up on the cap there.
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
you are correct christinie355
the upper threshold for savings/assets is £23250 - above that the person is required to fund care fees themselves ie is a self-funder
between that and £14250 the LA take on a proportion of the fees
below that the LA take on payment of fees, but the LA takes a contribution from the person of all their state pension plus half of any private pension, and Attendance Allowance stops, always leaving the person with a weekly expense amount of about £ 25 a week
actually, the half of private pension is only be when there is a spouse living, and the other half goes to them
there is a factsheet on the main AS site which gives this details
and this puts it in a nutshell:
https://www.carehome.co.uk/fees/feesadvice.cfm
 
Last edited:

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I'm sorry to keep banging on about this but who was it who told you that you had a 12 month grace period before disclosing the asset to the LA? Because I've been thinking about this and I believe the only asset disregard is 12 weeks when you have a home to sell. I think you could be looking at a large bill when you disclose. Further, when someone is self-funded they are entitled to attendance allowance, but that wouldn't be back-dated so your father could be out that money as well. I'm concerned that you have been advised by someone who might be aware of taxation issues (you mentioned April which is why my mind jumps to that) but absolutely no knowledge of how care home funding works.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
139,064
Messages
2,002,825
Members
90,839
Latest member
Grandaughtercare