Gold Standards Framework

Fireflies

New member
May 14, 2023
7
0
Hello. I am seeking support and some encouragement. We know our mum 75 who fell 11 month ago and broke her shoulder, and consequently went rapidly quick with dementia is very poorly. She no longer speaks, been doubly incontintent for a while, has been in bed for the last week, eating and drinking very little and sleeping most of the day. The GP visited today and prescribed anticipatory medication (just in case) and placed her under ‘Amber’ code. What are others experience of this, and how long did your loved one keep going?
It’s absolutely unbelievable that this is happening and completely heartbreaking. I fear months ahead of watching mum fade away, I don’t want her to leave us but I don’t want her suffering. I’m desperate to understand others experiences. Thank you
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
81,890
0
Kent
Welcome @Fireflies

I`m sorry to hear about your mother. It sounds as if she has had a very rapid downturn since her fall.

I haven`t heard of Amber Code and I hope someone who has well reply to you.

It may not be tonight because it is so late.
 

mhw

Registered User
Apr 4, 2024
30
0
You can download the gold standards framework. It basically starts with the question 'would you be surprised if this patient died in the next days or weeks' its basically a flow chart where you answer yes or no and that takes you to the next box. The colours are that of traffic lights essentially at the end, green being probably months Amber or yellow unpredictable but without extra infection or illness occurring months of slow but definite decline or red in the last days hours of life . My mum was yellow too according to the questions.
Sadly it's always been and will always be how long is a piece of string time wise. But this terms and plans and registers, help you make decisions that suit how you and your relative would like whatever time is left to go.
Personally I know my mum would have wanted to have been gone years ago, so the palliative care register, and gold standard just allowed me to encourage as little drug intervention or active pursuing of sustaining life, whether that be in a slow demise over the next months or if pneumonia or utis strike again.
As I say Google gold standard framework its widely ysed as a tool for care in nursing homes.
 

Fireflies

New member
May 14, 2023
7
0
Thank you Mhw this makes sense. I didn’t realise we could have a say in the amount of drugs etc that are being used with mum. To what extent can we dictate? We have POA. I also know mum would not want this for herself or us. Is this about treatment going forward or current medication ie anti platelets that are supposedly stopping or working to stop the vaso/TIAs happening? Personally I can’t help thinking why this is of use now to her and isn’t going to reverse anything. I will speak to them when I get to the care home this evening. Thank you
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,762
0
Midlands
My M in law was on amber level care in hospital- 5 weeks later we are having her home- she is still very unwell but improved a bit, so please be aware you can improve from being on amber level
 

Fireflies

New member
May 14, 2023
7
0
Thank you for your reply. I am really pleased to hear your MIL has improved a little bit and is coming out of hospital.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,762
0
Midlands
Thank you for your reply. I am really pleased to hear your MIL has improved a little bit and is coming out of hospital.
Thank you , Without doubt she is very much End of life still, but well enough to come home. How the devil we re going to manage is a whole other topic!
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,356
0
Bury
2024-04-25_083048.png


how long did your loved one keep going?
My wife was on amber with prognosis of 'weeks, months, maximum 6 months', she survived 3 months.
 

sdmhred

Registered User
Jan 26, 2022
2,226
0
Surrey
They use this in mum’s care home.

Two folks recently put on amber. One was changed to red a week later and died 2 weeks after that.

Another chap was on amber for 3-4 weeks and is now back to green

I only know this as they change the door colour signs which made me research.
 

mhw

Registered User
Apr 4, 2024
30
0
Thank you Mhw this makes sense. I didn’t realise we could have a say in the amount of drugs etc that are being used with mum. To what extent can we dictate? We have POA. I also know mum would not want this for herself or us. Is this about treatment going forward or current medication ie anti platelets that are supposedly stopping or working to stop the vaso/TIAs happening? Personally I can’t help thinking why this is of use now to her and isn’t going to reverse anything. I will speak to them when I get to the care home this evening. Thank you
I was fighting for weeks for anyone to acknowledge how sick my mum was after being discharged from hospital into an assessment bed. Personally i feel it was dictated by the fact they knew if they could avoid admitting she had a 'primary care need' as in shes was dying, they could get out of giving her CHC funding. After much shouting, crying , emailing, phoning the GP finally agreed ( be it under threat of having their license if they ignored my request for a full assessment) that she is EOL althoguh not actively dying ( I think they term actively dying as probably gone in the next few days weeks) and agreed to add her to the palliative care register. Once they do this, whether you have POA for health and welfare/deputyship order etc the GP is obliged to have a very candid discussion with the patients next of kin if the patient is not mentally able to answer these question etc, and ask you what the patient would want, how aggressively would you want them to sustain life, would you want them moved out of the environment they are in to a hospital emergency setting if they became seriously ill, or would you want it managed in the way of 'comfort care' in the setting they are in even if this means less of a chance they will survive the emergency. Obviously things like DNR are discussed, and also the level of preventative medication. I personally said I wanted her to be free of pain, and fed if and when she wanted not to force food or liquids if she showed no sign or wanting it or wake her to try her to force her to feed etc, I asked that if she got an infection uti or chest infection etc a oral course of anti biotics were ok but if that was not enough to ward off anything no IV meds and nature should be allowed to run its course. Obviously a DNR. My mother was brought back from the brink in Jan from bi lateral pneumonia and collapsed lung. Now she is in a nursing home, sleeping 20 hours out of 24 and the other 4 only awake to eat food she wouldnt like or eat under normal circumstances, having to be fed a constant supply of laxatives to make it leave her at the other end, sitting and laying in her own waste, hoisted out of bed into a chair to again fall asleep surrounded by noise and confusion she doesnt know or recognise.
I am just sorry they failed to have this discussion about appropriate meds whilst she was still in hospital as she would not have survived and not be in this terrible place.
Now at least because of them acknowledging how close to the end she was/is the next time hopefully she will finally be too weak and lack of intervention will at last give her some peace.
now its just a waiting game for me, everyday hoping for a sign things are again catching up with her, a cough, a rash, her breathing changing, not eating much or choking a little easily than the day before, I spend my life everyday hoping for something to tell me she's getting sick or weaker and soon it will be over for her ( and myself)
12 yrs since she first showed signs of frontal lobe 8 years since diagnosis and 6 yrs of being totally without diginity or speech or ability to communicate. Its been too long, and that makes me jealous of the ones who's fight is already over. I just want her final day so she can close her eyes and no longer be the victim this disease has made both of us.
 

MeganCat

Registered User
Jan 29, 2013
360
0
South Wales
I was fighting for weeks for anyone to acknowledge how sick my mum was after being discharged from hospital into an assessment bed. Personally i feel it was dictated by the fact they knew if they could avoid admitting she had a 'primary care need' as in shes was dying, they could get out of giving her CHC funding. After much shouting, crying , emailing, phoning the GP finally agreed ( be it under threat of having their license if they ignored my request for a full assessment) that she is EOL althoguh not actively dying ( I think they term actively dying as probably gone in the next few days weeks) and agreed to add her to the palliative care register. Once they do this, whether you have POA for health and welfare/deputyship order etc the GP is obliged to have a very candid discussion with the patients next of kin if the patient is not mentally able to answer these question etc, and ask you what the patient would want, how aggressively would you want them to sustain life, would you want them moved out of the environment they are in to a hospital emergency setting if they became seriously ill, or would you want it managed in the way of 'comfort care' in the setting they are in even if this means less of a chance they will survive the emergency. Obviously things like DNR are discussed, and also the level of preventative medication. I personally said I wanted her to be free of pain, and fed if and when she wanted not to force food or liquids if she showed no sign or wanting it or wake her to try her to force her to feed etc, I asked that if she got an infection uti or chest infection etc a oral course of anti biotics were ok but if that was not enough to ward off anything no IV meds and nature should be allowed to run its course. Obviously a DNR. My mother was brought back from the brink in Jan from bi lateral pneumonia and collapsed lung. Now she is in a nursing home, sleeping 20 hours out of 24 and the other 4 only awake to eat food she wouldnt like or eat under normal circumstances, having to be fed a constant supply of laxatives to make it leave her at the other end, sitting and laying in her own waste, hoisted out of bed into a chair to again fall asleep surrounded by noise and confusion she doesnt know or recognise.
I am just sorry they failed to have this discussion about appropriate meds whilst she was still in hospital as she would not have survived and not be in this terrible place.
Now at least because of them acknowledging how close to the end she was/is the next time hopefully she will finally be too weak and lack of intervention will at last give her some peace.
now its just a waiting game for me, everyday hoping for a sign things are again catching up with her, a cough, a rash, her breathing changing, not eating much or choking a little easily than the day before, I spend my life everyday hoping for something to tell me she's getting sick or weaker and soon it will be over for her ( and myself)
12 yrs since she first showed signs of frontal lobe 8 years since diagnosis and 6 yrs of being totally without diginity or speech or ability to communicate. Its been too long, and that makes me jealous of the ones who's fight is already over. I just want her final day so she can close her eyes and no longer be the victim this disease has made both of us.
Mhw you could be writing about my mum! I’m sat by her bedside in her care home and she’s a bit wheezy and it appears making effort to breathe in. She had an episode of myoclonus last night. The CH rang an ambulance but luckily the paramedic rang me and we agreed to keep her there.

She was diagnosed with AZ/vasc in ~2011, she’s been in the care home 10 years, unable to walk or converse since 2016 and for the last 4 years nursed in bed unaware of my presence.

Last time she had a chest infection I said to a friend that I wondered ‘if this is the one’ that took her - she took it that that was my worst fear. My worst fear is that mum has to endure years more of this!

Sending you a virtual hug and strength x
 

Angelsoul

Registered User
May 22, 2023
51
0
It makes me dread what I will probably have to witness. Mum has alzeimers / vascular dementia coming up to a year since diagnosed. It seems virtually everyone on here have had to endure this disgusting disease for years and years. I thought vascular dementia had an average of 5 years,yet so many on here seem to live with it for way past this....even with the added alzeimers. I thought having both would advance much quicker....am I just being naive?.
 

luggy

Registered User
Jan 25, 2023
210
0
I was fighting for weeks for anyone to acknowledge how sick my mum was after being discharged from hospital into an assessment bed. Personally i feel it was dictated by the fact they knew if they could avoid admitting she had a 'primary care need' as in shes was dying, they could get out of giving her CHC funding. After much shouting, crying , emailing, phoning the GP finally agreed ( be it under threat of having their license if they ignored my request for a full assessment) that she is EOL althoguh not actively dying ( I think they term actively dying as probably gone in the next few days weeks) and agreed to add her to the palliative care register. Once they do this, whether you have POA for health and welfare/deputyship order etc the GP is obliged to have a very candid discussion with the patients next of kin if the patient is not mentally able to answer these question etc, and ask you what the patient would want, how aggressively would you want them to sustain life, would you want them moved out of the environment they are in to a hospital emergency setting if they became seriously ill, or would you want it managed in the way of 'comfort care' in the setting they are in even if this means less of a chance they will survive the emergency. Obviously things like DNR are discussed, and also the level of preventative medication. I personally said I wanted her to be free of pain, and fed if and when she wanted not to force food or liquids if she showed no sign or wanting it or wake her to try her to force her to feed etc, I asked that if she got an infection uti or chest infection etc a oral course of anti biotics were ok but if that was not enough to ward off anything no IV meds and nature should be allowed to run its course. Obviously a DNR. My mother was brought back from the brink in Jan from bi lateral pneumonia and collapsed lung. Now she is in a nursing home, sleeping 20 hours out of 24 and the other 4 only awake to eat food she wouldnt like or eat under normal circumstances, having to be fed a constant supply of laxatives to make it leave her at the other end, sitting and laying in her own waste, hoisted out of bed into a chair to again fall asleep surrounded by noise and confusion she doesnt know or recognise.
I am just sorry they failed to have this discussion about appropriate meds whilst she was still in hospital as she would not have survived and not be in this terrible place.
Now at least because of them acknowledging how close to the end she was/is the next time hopefully she will finally be too weak and lack of intervention will at last give her some peace.
now its just a waiting game for me, everyday hoping for a sign things are again catching up with her, a cough, a rash, her breathing changing, not eating much or choking a little easily than the day before, I spend my life everyday hoping for something to tell me she's getting sick or weaker and soon it will be over for her ( and myself)
12 yrs since she first showed signs of frontal lobe 8 years since diagnosis and 6 yrs of being totally without diginity or speech or ability to communicate. Its been too long, and that makes me jealous of the ones who's fight is already over. I just want her final day so she can close her eyes and no longer be the victim this disease has made both of us.
@mhw this is a script which could have been written for the situation I'm in with my mum. I'm quite au fait with the Gold Standards Framework, having come across it during the course of my research for a CHC appeal. Sadly, neither my mum's nursing home nor her GP have ever mentioned it to me and it's got to the point where I really do need to have a serious conversation with them to drive home my wishes for mum on her behalf. I know with certainty that mum would not knowingly want to continue her life in this way.

Like you, I'm constantly on the look out for signs that the end is very close. Mum has had Alzheimers for 20 years and she has been completely bedridden for 3 years. She can't even sit in a chair due to severe contractures of her legs and a lack of sitting balance. She eats very little, spitting it out and sometimes choking. She weighs 37kg with a BMI of 13. The list goes on. Mum recently had a chest infection and I was hoping it would develop into pneumonia to bring an end to her suffering. However, it cleared with a course of oral antibiotics and the GP seemed thrilled, stating that mum had 'made a lovely recovery'. And so, the agony continues.
 

maggie6445

Registered User
Dec 29, 2023
624
0
How do I repost my post?
I'm not sure but I'd go to the I care for a person with dementia and re write it. You may be able to copy and paste but I'm not that computer savvy😃

My understanding is that Alzheimer's is a slower developing dementia and people can live with it for as long as 20 years although 10 years is the average My oh was diagnosed with Alzheimer's / Lewy body mixed and the Lewy body is faster progressing. He was diagnosed in 2021 and is now late mid stage.