Duty or love

[hollycat]

I have been asked a question on another thread and didn't want to reply directly on the thread and take the chat off at a tangent i.e. I didn't want to spoil it for the original poster.

OH and I are live in carers for mum. I am an only child. I do it out of duty and not love.
Mum has never shown me any love.

Do I want to be here ? NO

Do I love my mum ? NO

Do I spoil my mum and treat her with respect, dignity, friendship............I TRY my hardest.

As a result of the above posting on another thread, I was asked the following question:

Can I ask why you think it's your duty if you dont want to or have any love for
your Mum ?

I care for mum out of duty because:

1. She is my mum.
2. My moral values.
3. My upbringing.
4. Because I think I can do a better job than the "system"
5. It is what my dead father would have wanted (really love and respect my dad)
6. There is an expectation in a close knit village community.
7. OH and I are in a good financial position, so have retired early (for now).
8. Mum gets 2 carers 24/7; a problem shared is a problem halved ?
9. I don't think I could cope as a distant carer.
10. Mum brought me into the world, I hope to make her journey out of the world as pleasant as I can.

DUTY OR LOVE

I honestly believe whether we love a person or not............so what ?

I also believe that what is wrong with doing something out of duty ?

We have all lived our lives and done NUMEROUS things out of duty, have we ?

What is wrong or by the way right doing something out of duty ?

As usual, I am very openminded so all comments, for, against, humorous etc all are very very welcome !

If I don't like what you come back with, I will buy some extra stuffing tomorrow !
THAT IS A JOKE......BY THE WAY.

x x x

 

[jenniferpa]

I think it's fine as long as you don't feel resentful. People do things for all sorts of reason and sometimes for wildly opposing things. I can perfectly understand caring for someone out of sense of duty because it among other things makes me feel I am doing my bit and allows me to feel a little smug (not saying that's you by the way). But if I stated to feel resentful then no, duty wouldn't be an adequate reason.

 

[garnuft]

If I was in the position of the person needing care,
I would say
'Stuff your duty where the sun don't shine'
oh and as an extra...

'Don't make me the salvation of your conscience'

That's what I would say, if I had a choice and was being cared for by somone who didn't like/love me.

If the World was even and people who needed care had choices,
would they choose you?



Gwen XXX

 

[hollycat]

I think it's fine as long as you don't feel resentful. People do things for all sorts of reason and sometimes for wildly opposing things. I can perfectly understand caring for someone out of sense of duty because it among other things makes me feel I am doing my bit and allows me to feel a little smug (not saying that's you by the way). But if I stated to feel resentful then no, duty wouldn't be an adequate reason.

Great reply as always Jennifer.

I don't feel resentful to mum in anyway; I just don't have that bone in my body, after all it isn't mums fault she is stubborn, unloving and has alzheimers.

The smug bit: must admit that I actually do feel a little smug at times. When I feel down and look back at the last week or even day at what has been achieved in the household of mum, I do get a little smug.

 

[hollycat]

If I was in the position of the person needing care,
I would say
'Stuff your duty where the sun don't shine'
oh and as an extra...

'Don't make me the salvation of your conscience'

That's what I would say, if I had a choice and was being cared for by somone who didn't like/love me.

If the World was even and people who needed care had choices,
would they choose you?



Gwen XXX

Believe it or not Gwen, but I would say the same thing myself. Infact, OH and I have our whole caring future planned out in order to avoid a similar situation occuring when WE need care and our daughter gets involved. Bless her, my mother was and still is invincible and lacks forsight.

Nobody can tell my mother anything.

Do you have to love someone to care for them ?

 

[angelface]

I don't think you have to love a person to care for them. I do think you have to be a very strong person to care in this way.

I did it, and it brought me to my knees, but if you can do it, it makes you very special

You deserve to feel smug!

Gxx

 

[garnuft]

Yes.

Or work within a system of defintite boundaries i.e professional
i.e get paid and are accountable.

I would rather be looked after by a team of professional strangers than ONE begrudging, thinks they owe me a life family member,
of course this is just how I feel about these provocative issues,
but I like a row so Tally Ho!

Gwen XXX

 

[tp18]

I agree with you (Hollycat) 100%
I saw your post on the other thread.

As with the other thread, this one may also become "busy" with folks getting personal (judgmental) about what you have said, so I would urge everyone reading this to be mindful of the fact that none of these types of threads are necessarily seeking the approval (or otherwise) of the reader.

In life we often "do the right thing" when perhaps it is not our choice to do so, assuming we have been brought up correctly.

I have done things for other people (aside from caring for my own mother I mean), which I positively didn't want to do. One that springs to mind is seeing an old regular from a public house (I used to be the landlady) who was having an epileptic fit on a pavement. From my days in the pub, I knew what was happening, having seen this guy have one before. Long hair, grease monkey, smelly kind of guy that people would cross the street to avoid. But what do you do, can't leave him there with people all taking a wide berth thinking he was drunk or drugged. So I stopped, made sure he wasn't hurting himself,. and saw that he got home OK afterwards. Do I want a medal, no of course not, because its something that any decent person would do. Did I like the guy? Not in the slightest.

The example might be a bit random, but if someone were to ask me whether its right or wrong to "to the right thing", well its a no brainer.

Edit: I was typing this at the same time garnuft was typing hers, and in no way am I passing any kind of backhanded comment on your previous reply garnuft - just wanted to make that clear

 

[garnuft]

'Judgemental' ...that's a word we should define.
Does it mean when something is said you don't like?
Agree with?
Is acceptable in 2012 converstions?

What does 'Judgemental' mean?

If we don't like other's opinions, judgemental or not, why do we post pon a public forum?

This is not 'Speakers Corner'.

It is a forum where help is sought.
If I find your version of 'care' offensive, unacceptable, not to be care?
Am I not to have a voice too?

Is everyone to come on here and just say their bit and those who dissent be called the new buzz word....

Judgemental... as was said by someone with more experience of these things than me....
bit ironic to be called judgemental.

I have my opinion and I WILL give it.

Gwen XXX

 

[jenniferpa]

I think it's not judgmental to say "I totally disagree with what you say" but it is judgmental to say "and you are a terrible person for saying it". The first is expressing an opinion in a respectful manner while the second isn't.

It's not always as clear cut as that of course, but often it's like the quote about pornography "I don't know what it is but I know it when I see it".

 

[hollycat]

Angelface

Thanks for sharing your experience; it is VERY HARD. My main strength comes from my OH.

Garnuft

Life would be really boring if we all had the same opinions.

TP18

In life we do the right thing - could not agree more.

Thanks for the example. OH and I live our daily lives helping others when the occasion arises because that is how we were brought up.

I am no more complicated than that; good oldfashioned VALUES.

 

[garnuft]

That's a bland statement Hollycat for such a provocative thread.

Life wouldn't be boring if we held the same opinions, it depends on the opinion.

Gwen XXX

 

[tp18]

I think it's not judgmental to say "I totally disagree with what you say" but it is judgmental to say "and you are a terrible person for saying it". The first is expressing an opinion in a respectful manner while the second isn't.

It's not always as clear cut as that of course, but often it's like the quote about pornography "I don't know what it is but I know it when I see it".

right on the money there Jennifer

 

[garnuft]

Just for others information.....
It was Jennifer I was quoting....

 

[Bodensee]

Both, even though my mum is stubborn, unloving, etc, etc, I feel compassion and as nobody else gives a damn (in my family) I do, I can't help it.

 

[LadyA]

There's a theory in psychology, that there is no such thing as really genuine selflessness, or philanthropy. That none of us do anything for someone else without getting some benefit in return. And that doesn't necessarily mean monetary benefit, or public acknowledgement. It can mean, for example, that yes, I care for my husband as he deteriorates, and it's a 24/7 job, and he has no idea of the amount of work it is - but - the "benefit" I get in return is the sense of satisfaction I feel - and yes, I do feel satisfied! - that I know I'm doing a better job caring for him than anyone else could right now. And I know that he's happier being cared for by me than he would anywhere else. And yes, it gives me great satisfaction when I finally understand what he is trying to tell me. Satisfaction for a job well done - but also, let's be honest - there is a bit of satisfaction felt that I'm able to understand him most of the time, and no-one else can, really! I take care of him because he is my husband and I love him, and when we said "in sickness and in health, for better or worse" - well, I guess we got the short straw, but that's life. But also, I believe that all elderly frail people with or without dementia, should be cared for as well as possible, if not by their own families, then by the society they built and worked for. I don't want to live in a society that deems these people a nuisance, a burden etc. How it cares for the vulnurable is the true test of a civilisation.

As has been said, life is not fair. It does not have to be. It owes us nothing. My husband, even the Consultant said, had an IQ that was just about off the scale, he had two Degrees and was so highly educated - he was a lifelong scholar. He used to read some of the ancient Greek writers just for something to read!! If he could end up with dementia, unable to write, read or make a coherent sentence, then it really is a disease that strikes at random.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I just need to climb down off my high horse and get a nice cup of green tea before bed! I'm rambling, which is a sure sign I should have gone to bed an hour ago!

 

[garnuft]

I don't understand how anyone can think that another person would want to be in the condition that they find themselves trapped and lost within.
They do NOT do it as as test to 'carers'....
If you hate your life dealing with Alzheimer's, free the person that is trapped.
It is their life too and you are not a Hero unless you give it freely.
That is my opinion.

Gwen XXX

 

[LadyA]

I don't understand how anyone can think that another person would want to be in the condition that they find themselves trapped and lost within.
They do NOT do it as as test to 'carers'....
If you hate your life dealing with Alzheimer's, free the person that is trapped.
It is their life too and you are not a Hero unless you give it freely.
That is my opinion.

Gwen XXX

Gwen, I don't know how you would have got that from what I said. Nothing I said would indicate that my husband would want to be in the condition he is in, nor be "testing" me. Nor did I say or indicate that I hate my life dealing with Alzheimers, nor that caring for him makes me a hero. And as for giving care freely - it is given freely. I very clearly said that I care for my husband because I love him - but also, I do get satisfaction from knowing that I care for him very well. I think it would be far more detrimental to both him and me if I got absolutely no satisfaction or feeling of doing a good job of caring for him.

Now I really am going to bed!

 

[garnuft]

I didn't get that from what you said Lady A,
I was still responding to the original post.

I am sorry if you thought it was intended for you, it was not.

I would have mentioned you were it to be the case.

Gwen XXX

 

[jenniferpa]

Can I just say, I think in any thread that a person posting may not be posting in response to the post immediately in front of theirs, or, in fact, to any specific post.

Ah - cross posted with Gwen.