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DOLS applied and now AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
It's me again. Well after thinking things were settling down with fil, social services have decided to jump straight back in again. DoLs was applied for by care home as assessment said he lacked capacity to decide where he wanted to live and he needed to stay in the care home. All he goes on about is going back to his flat, even though he has no awareness of what day, time, year it is, how little help he needs with everything and how lonely he was. We had a call from Best Interest Assessor who did the dols assessment and she said he was being deprived of his liberty but due to his memory, lack of sight and utter lack of understanding about his needs and surroundings it would be granted for 1 year.
We then get an email from SW saying that best interests meeting needs to be set up asap to decide fil long term future (they are still pushing for him to go back to the flat, even though every doctor and assessor says he lacks capacity and hubby has POA over health and welfare so he thought he made the final decision on where he lives (which needs to be in the care home) Now they want a best interest meeting to decide what happens in 3 months time as dols has been applied til then (on the phone she said a year) and have given scenarios on his future, being, 1, stays in the care home, 2, sent home with care package 4 times daily) 3, sheltered housing with care 4 times daily) they have given pros and cons of each scenario for him. it is so ridiculous, he couldn't manage with a care package we set up for him when he had them 3 times a day ( he kept sending them away early and then putting the oven on with nothing in it) and home manager and all the drs have said he requires 24 hr care. He gets up in the night and needs help going to the toilet, he wanders, he isn't safe to go out on his own (which he would do if he was in the flat) what the hell do we have a lasting POA for if they are going to stand in our way every time we try to get him to settle. Yes, I know he wants to go home but the reality is that he doesn't even know what year he's living in, he's telling them all he cooks his dinner, get his own drinks, does his own shopping, none of this is true. When the dol was done she said it would be applied for a year then reviewed. Nothing was said about another meeting to discuss the future and if we have to go to another meeting where he is there it is going to undo everything we have worked towards to getting him settled. Do we have to attend a best interest meeting for a DOLS if hubby has POA, and why bother to have it if it's challenged at every turn. We are now beside ourselves with worry and stress. He won't even last a week in the flat without falling over, falling down the steps to his front door, he won't know where he is going if he goes out (and he will) he'll get on his blasted scooter which terrifies us completely.
Please can someone advise us what to say. :(
 

Otiruz

Registered User
Nov 28, 2015
255
Kent
Hello Lori107

Thought I read on an earlier post from you that SS were no longer involved? If this is correct why are they now back on the scene? Did you not have a very detailed report made of your FIL's mental health re dementia? As your hubby has POA it is HE who decides where his father is to stay not the SS based on this report. If SS are not paying for his care usually they are quick to fade away. Surely the care home will reiterate the need for your FIL's best interests to be taken on board given the previous report, together with their own observations/recommendations and your hubby, with a firm grip on his POA can make a stand for the sake of his father's health and welfare. Not sure I see or understand where SS come in on this. Think hubby needs to make it absolutely clear that HE has the final say - having proved that his father is incapable and that HIS decision is that in his father's best interests he stays put. Hope this is resolved soon.
 

lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
Hello Lori107

Thought I read on an earlier post from you that SS were no longer involved? If this is correct why are they now back on the scene? Did you not have a very detailed report made of your FIL's mental health re dementia? As your hubby has POA it is HE who decides where his father is to stay not the SS based on this report. If SS are not paying for his care usually they are quick to fade away. Surely the care home will reiterate the need for your FIL's best interests to be taken on board given the previous report, together with their own observations/recommendations and your hubby, with a firm grip on his POA can make a stand for the sake of his father's health and welfare. Not sure I see or understand where SS come in on this. Think hubby needs to make it absolutely clear that HE has the final say - having proved that his father is incapable and that HIS decision is that in his father's best interests he stays put. Hope this is resolved soon.
This has only come about since the care home applied for a DOLS, other than that we knew all the assessments had been done and he has been found by 3 different experts to lack capacity to make decisions. We thought that this was it and were told the DOLS was just a formality and it would only escalate if fil challenged the decision of the DoLs, which he hadn't. She said in a call to hubby after dols assessment that it would be granted for a year then reviewed, nothing was mentioned about a best interest meeting. She asked if hubby wanted to be his representative but as hubby thinks he should be in the care home it was decided a paid representative would be better. It's only looking at the form that I can see that the interfering SW has put her two pennyworth in about the possibility of him going back to his flat with carers 4 times a day. Well 3 a day didn't work before so 4 won't any difference especially as he gets up several times in the night to go to the loo and he needs help with this. They're now saying a best interest meeting should be held as soon as possible and that he should have a home check to see what dangers are in his flat. It's him!!! He's the main danger. Why are they having this best interest meeting when hubby has poa and fil lacks capacity. On the DoLs forms it says by everyone who assessed him that he needs 24 HR care so what good are their ridiculous options of sheltered housing, care package 4 times a day. He couldn't manage sheltered housing 3 or 4years ago because he is blind so he couldn't find his way to the door, now with AD as well.....I ask you.
Can we refuse a best interest meeting on the basis that hubby has poa and fil lacks capacity (he's completely SF so why are ss poking their nose in again?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,707
South coast
Is your dad self-funding, or is the LA paying part/all of his fees?
If the LA are contributing then I suspect this is a money saving exercise. The SWs are being put under a great deal of pressure to save money by not moving people into a CH. Her saying that she wants to try your dad with carers 4x a day is a tick-box exercise. Many LAs wont fund a CH until it has been shown that the PWD cant cope at home and this means with maximum assistance which is carers 4x a day. They usually use the PWD saying that they want to "go home" as a useful peg to hang this on - even when (like your dad) there is no capacity.
If he is self-funding you can ignore the whole thing, but if he is not then you will have to fight to get him in a CH. Get a list of factual problems. Dont use emotional terms, but work out rationally what he will have problems with - including the fact that he is up and down all night. You can present this at the Best Interest Meeting.

Edit - just noticed that he is self-funding, so there shouldnt be a problem, although Im not sure if you can just cancel the meeting. I wonder whether the SW thinks he may not be self-funding?
 
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lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
Is your dad self-funding, or is the LA paying part/all of his fees?
If the LA are contributing then I suspect this is a money saving exercise. The SWs are being put under a great deal of pressure to save money by not moving people into a CH. Her saying that she wants to try your dad with carers 4x a day is a tick-box exercise. Many LAs wont fund a CH until it has been shown that the PWD cant cope at home and this means with maximum assistance which is carers 4x a day. They usually use the PWD saying that they want to "go home" as a useful peg to hang this on - even when (like your dad) there is no capacity.
If he is self-funding you can ignore the whole thing, but if he is not then you will have to fight to get him in a CH. Get a list of factual problems. Dont use emotional terms, but work out rationally what he will have problems with - including the fact that he is up and down all night. You can present this at the Best Interest Meeting.

Edit - just noticed that he is self-funding, so there shouldnt be a problem, although Im not sure if you can just cancel the meeting. I wonder whether the SW thinks he may not be self-funding?
hi canary,

Yes he is completely self funded, I just don't understand why ss are being so interfering. Hubby has poa for health and welfare, fil has no capacity (confirmed by 3 doctors) and needs to stay in the care home for his own safety. What is their problem???? what is the point in sending him back home with carers, he will send away anyway and try and do things himself, knowing that he will lose the room at the very nice cH he is in, just to have a fall end back in hospital and then having nowhere to put him when he comes out. It just beggars belief that they can be so short sighted. Yes, he wants to go home, but he thinks it's 1990 at the moment which is before he even lost his eye sight and was a perfectly capable person, which is not the case now. We are going to fight this at every turn. It is only because the interfering SW has put a comment on the dols that a best interest meeting should be held as he was only having 1 carer a day before and we made no attempts to increase it. This is a lie, he was having carers 3 times a day before he had his fall so I don't know why she is saying it was only one and that is why she is pushing for him to go home. It's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!
 

its a struggle

Registered User
Mar 10, 2015
66
65
South Coast - Hampshire
Random thought

It is only because the interfering SW has put a comment on the dols that a best interest meeting should be held as he was only having 1 carer a day before and we made no attempts to increase it. This is a lie, he was having carers 3 times a day before he had his fall so I don't know why she is saying it was only one and that is why she is pushing for him to go home. It's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!
Hi Lori107,

Is it at all possible that the SW is referring to the wrong patient? It's not unheard of for SW's to mix up clients, especially with their heavy case loads! :rolleyes:

Hope it is all sorted soon x
 

lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
Hi Lori107,

Is it at all possible that the SW is referring to the wrong patient? It's not unheard of for SW's to mix up clients, especially with their heavy case loads! :rolleyes:

Hope it is all sorted soon x
Hi,

I really don't know, I just think the SW is being awkward because she knows that none of his family and friends think he should be living independently because of his blindness, alzheimers (advancing rapidly) and his poor mobility. All he says is 'he wants to go home' and she just clings to that. I don't know why they are putting us through this. we were told the dols procedure was just standard and the assessor said it would be granted for a year, nothing was said about a best interests meeting on the phone when she confirmed it for a year. and now the form sent through says 3 months and a best interest meeting. where is this coming from
 

jaymor

Volunteer Moderator
Jul 14, 2006
12,815
England
I am sure that a DOLS can only be put in place if in care home or hospital. Depravation of Libertty at home has to be applied for through Court Of Protection. Apologies if I am wrong.

If your FIL is in a care home and you want him to stay there and you have LPA for his health and welfare then he can stay there, the DOLS confirms your concerns for his safety.

As he is self funding then the SW has nothing to do with it unless they are contesting the DOLS which would be unusual.

Once a DOLS has been put in place it will be reviewed every 12 months and as this is dementia we are talking about it is not going to get any better.

I hope you get it sorted soon.
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
8,822
Yorkshire
Hi lori107
reading your posts I actually think that the meeting will confirm that your FIL is in exactly the right place - you have everything to evidence that position - a DOLS is already in place, the care home staff will confirm your view, you have the paperwork to show lack of capacity, his son has both POAs etc
if the point about your FIL saying he wants to go 'home' is brought up, point out that this isn't his present home and insist that anyone using this as a lever to have him moved out of the care home should ask him follow up questions, such as 'where is home?' 'who lives there with you?' 'how do you care for yourself?' 'what do you do in the day?' ie questions to show his (lack of) understanding of his actual situation

so, definitely attend and maybe see the meeting as just a means to confirm to all that being in the care home is definitely in your FIL's best interests: a nuisance bit of bureaucracy - this way you'll be calmer and in control

I appreciate that all this easy for me to say, I'm not in the thick of it - I really do think, though, that all the other participants at the meeting will be seeing the situation exactly as you do and the outcome will be that FIL stays in the home

best wishes
 

Sterling

Registered User
Jun 20, 2013
69
My understanding is that even with a lack of capacity, if there is any way to manage the situation safely, the person has to try at home before it can be ruled out. The least restrictive option has to be trialled.
 

lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
My understanding is that even with a lack of capacity, if there is any way to manage the situation safely, the person has to try at home before it can be ruled out. The least restrictive option has to be trialled.
I understand that but we have already tried with carers 3 times a day before he had the fall. However now he needs 24 HR supervision according to the doctor who did the BIA and also the care home and best interests assessor herself and there is no way we can put 24hr care in place at his flat. . He only has one bedroom and he can't afford it. The DoLs form that the doctor completed said in his opinion the least restrictive option was staying in the care home.
We are going to go to the meeting armed with evidence that going home is not an option anymore.
 

HillyBilly

Registered User
Dec 21, 2015
1,947
Ireland
I hope that you'll find that the best interests meeting is just a box ticking exercise that has to be seen to be done.
 

care2share

Registered User
Jun 14, 2015
92
London
I hope that you'll find that the best interests meeting is just a box ticking exercise that has to be seen to be done.
Yes, Stirling hits the nail on the head. The SW has to pursue it because FIL is expressing his wish to be home and has a legal right to representation in the matter. If wealthy enough he could afford 24/7 care at home unless his home is deemed unsuitable so the SW has to explore this option. Saying that, they will be considering the length of time his funds will extend to as they will not want him to become state funded any sooner that need be. Yes, it is true that it would be rather more than a case of the deprivation being ended, it would have to be considered by the Court of Protection. I gather from your post he is not wealthy enough to fun 24/7 so feel sure your worries will soon be sorted but the boxes must be ticked as SW are under such scrutiny to get it right. All the best for a happy outcome.

P.S. With the LPA for Health and welfare hubby is in the driving seat. Just think of the battle you would have on your hands if you did want him home and you didn't have LPA.
 
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