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Delicate post. DNR.

Louby65

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
620
Scotland
I hope I can shed a bit of light on this . The correct terminology is DNACPR which is do not attempt cardio pulmonary resuscitation . It does not mean , do not treat . I have had many discussions with patients who think their loved ones won't receive any treatment and may be left suffering . Even with an end of life pathway we still symptom manage e.g. pain relief etc . Using Correct resuscitation measures is not brutal but is unpleasant for all concerned so I wanted to inform people , in case using the word brutal may make them make a decision based on that . At the same time , I recognise and sympathise with the people who would use that word to describe their experience, but I wanted also to make all aware that professionals are trained in delivering this care swiftly and correctly , limiting damage to the individual . As for the DNACPR order staying in place , in hospital this should be reviewed frequently and removed if necessary. If a persons health improves then it can be completely revoked . That's why it is advised that if you wish this order to be maintained then it should be discussed with medical staff . Remember , the family can have an opinion and state their case but where possible the patient is always consulted first and foremost . That's why it is a good idea to discuss these matters with all the family and all are in agreement. Where possible apply for combined Power of attorney for health and finances . I hope this has helped a bit to explain what is a very emotionally charged experience , and one which no one wants to be faced with when looking after our loved ones , who have to rely on us making the 'right' decision, whatever that may be . My very best wishes to anyone facing this dilemma . Lou
 

jknight

Registered User
Oct 23, 2015
786
Hampshire
I am very tired and may well has missed this information! If a person doesn't have a DNR but next of Kin ie me, has POA, can I make this decision?
I can't bear to think of mum suffering but equally, I don't want to upset her by asking her to sign a DNR. She won't understand.
 

Louby65

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
620
Scotland
Yes you can jenny . Medical staff will certainly take into consideration your mums mental state and your authority to make decisions for her , so please don't worry . I think people worry that a DNACPR means that nothing will be done for them which should not be the case . The persons condition will be assessed and treated accordingly. Resuscitation doesn't just mean givjng CPR , it means giving fluids , antibiotics , analgesia etc . I hope that alleviates your worries a bit . Hope you and your mum are well. Take care . Lou xx
 

Kjn

Registered User
Jul 27, 2013
5,833
Thank you for that louby , il make a mental note. Mum was asked about DNR by home assessor the other day.
 

Louby65

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
620
Scotland
Your very welcome Kjn. I was asked it myself 2 1/2 years ago when my own mum was in hospital , when it looked extremely bleak . I told them to treat her with oxygen , medication etc but do not perform CPR . The medical staff carried out my wishes and she was well enough to come home 5 weeks later . I know she has dementia but I still wouldn't see her suffer by withholding supportive treatment which may have aided her recovery . If she had arrested then I would have known her heart was not strong enough to continue treatment and would not have supported CPR. It's a very good idea to discuss DNACPR options with your GP and having a lasting order on your mums case records . Best wishes to you and your mum , Lou
 

Kjn

Registered User
Jul 27, 2013
5,833
It's dad who is in hospital louby, been in 5months trying to find a dementia home for him , he was moved from acute to cottage placement .
Homes keep refusing as lists everywhere and they're taking all the "easy to handle" choices where no safegaurding issues.

Mum was visiting dad when another home assessed him (badly I might add) , only person to ask re DNR so far as I know .
X
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,291
SW London
By the time the question arose for my mother, she was already very elderly with pretty advanced dementia, so we had no hesitation in saying yes to a DNR. We did not want her taken to hospital at all unless it was absolutely necessary (e.g.another broken hip) since it would have been very distressing for her. By then, when her quality of life was already so poor, I would not have thought it at all kind to try to interfere if nature was trying to let her go. And I knew 100% that she would not have wanted it for herself, either.
 

Louby65

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
620
Scotland
Sorry kjn for my mix up . I do hope your dad finds a home where he will be well looked after . I know they are out there but difficult to find sometimes . I wish you strength in 2017 as you continue your search to find him a safe and welcoming home . Best wishes , Lou x
 

Louby65

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
620
Scotland
Hi witzend , you certainly made the right decision for your mum . Best wishes for a healthy and happier 2017. Lou
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,291
SW London
Would just add that an elderly neighbour of ours (no dementia) was resuscitated after a heart attack - not his first. He told me afterwards that the after-effects were so painful (I assume cracked ribs etc.) that he wished they'd just let him die.

This I think also strongly affected the decision we made for our mother. We could not have imagined putting her through anything like that.

The neighbour did in fact die a few months later.
 

sajimjo

Registered User
Jun 18, 2013
130
Staffordshire
Sorry not posted for ages due to lack of time but had to add to this thread about DNR.
I went to our GP and asked him to put DNR on my partner's file, which he was quite happy to do, no questions asked.
I have recently watched my ex-husband pass away. He had not spoken for over two years, spent the last 6 months in bed, the staff could not dress him as he had become so inflexible. Death certificate said 'mixed dementia' was the cause. I watched him struggling to breathe. We had DNR on his file, years ago he had a heart attack. I know which I would prefer.
Wishing you all peace and strength for the New Year.
Sajimjo
 

Ihtl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2016
82
Long before my dad started showing symptoms of dementia, he used to say, in reference to my grandmother with Alzheimer's "If I ever get like that, just shoot me".

So, although he's currently fit and physically healthy, and, thanks to his most recent prescription medication isn't anywhere near as anxious/aggressive as he used to be, I would opt for a DNR because when he was 'with it' he made his wishes perfectly clear and given his mother's condition, he had enough insight into the disease to for me to consider his choice a well informed one.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
England
I wouldn't worry too much. Most people agree that being resuscitated when elderly is painful and can often crack their ribs.

My mother made her wishes well known and as a result of her heart problems didn't want resuscitation , so I wasn't at all bothered by signing them. That was over 5 years ago and we've never had cause to 'use' the forms anyway. They only use it if there's a heart attack. Anything else they'd treat as per usual.

From my understanding the worse the dementia gets the less likely a heart attack becomes, but in the event she did suffer one it would be much kinder to let her go peacefully, and relatively, more quickly than this 'slow death of dementia'.
 

SugarRay

Registered User
May 5, 2014
48
Sunny South East
Just an update on something that happened at Christmas (I know I know been a bit busy lol!!)

Mum ended up in A&E - it had been a very long stressful week on the mum and work front.. So cue meltdown number 1... DNAR in her "proper" name all medical records and known as... in her 3rd name... Nurse says to me this isn't valid... cue **** off extra large 2nd meltdown in 30 mins... I try and point out she is one and the same... same DoB, address, medical number etc, Senior Sister comes over as I am now seriously losing the plot... Takes form over to a Dr who just adds Mums 3rd name writes aka signs and dates. Now valid.

Just thought I'd raise the "parent with different first names" scenario.. It's something extra we can all do without when dealing with everything else as well.

SR
 
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LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,630
Ireland
This can happen in all kinds of scenarios! Years ago, I worked in a law office, and one time, I was preparing documents for the purchase of a house for a couple. I had been at school with the woman - and prepared all the documents in the name she had grown up with, and the name she had given the solicitor. Every last document had that name on! And when they arrived to sign, bringing their birth certificates and other documentation with them - her name on her birth certificate was completely different! The name she had always been known by wasn't even an additional name - it wasn't on her birth certificate at all! Questioned, she said "Oh yeah - apparently my parents changed their minds after registering me." - she hadn't realised it made a difference to official documentation, and the whole lot had to be re-typed, in those pre-computer days! :rolleyes:
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,474
Suffolk
I have a cousin, A. Her full name is EA. when she was in hospital, in a small ward, 3/4 were called A, so the nurses decided to call her E! A name that was only on forms and she had never used!
I also have two Christian names and again, was only called by my second name. When I was 19, I used shortened form of first name. However, the family didn't, stuck to second name. Christmas cards are a nightmare!
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,384
South coast
This can happen in all kinds of scenarios! Years ago, I worked in a law office, and one time, I was preparing documents for the purchase of a house for a couple. I had been at school with the woman - and prepared all the documents in the name she had grown up with, and the name she had given the solicitor. Every last document had that name on! And when they arrived to sign, bringing their birth certificates and other documentation with them - her name on her birth certificate was completely different! The name she had always been known by wasn't even an additional name - it wasn't on her birth certificate at all! Questioned, she said "Oh yeah - apparently my parents changed their minds after registering me." - she hadn't realised it made a difference to official documentation, and the whole lot had to be re-typed, in those pre-computer days! :rolleyes:
Oh yes, Lady A.
When I wanted to sell mums home she had been in it for so long that it wasnt on the Land Registry, so the solicitor asked whether I had the deeds. I found them eventually (stuffed behind the chest of drawers in mums bedroom) - all beautiful parchment and tied up with green ribbon - and took then in triumph to the solicitors. Unfortunately I got a phone call about half an hour later from this solicitor saying that the name on the deeds didnt match the name on the CoP certificate..........
:(:(:(