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Deferred payment, social services

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
Hi, mum has become increasingly vulnerable due to the fact that she is confused about the time of day often, and waits often in the front porch with the door open, on a busy main road, for the district nurse who administers her insulin, at all times, even late at night! The nurse has raised this as a safeguarding concern to social services.

We have found a nice care home and mum had a visit last week. She said she liked it and is keen to go (that is a blessing). However although her house would have to be sold, and social services have agreed to the deferred payment (we think so anyway), they are taking an age for the budget holder to sign off the budget? Is that for the deferred payment? I don’t quite understand it. Mum’s been getting quite upset as she wants to go there as soon as, and we’ve had more instances of her waiting in the porch with the front door open for hours, and it’s freezing, or phoning throughout the night. Also we are concerned that the care home won’t keep the bedroom available, that she’s seen.

Does the sale of the person with dementia’s house not cover the costs until it runs out, then social services pay after that plus we may need to pay a top up?
 

Normaleila

Registered User
Jun 4, 2016
722
Hi, I have no experience of this but I assume there is an LA budget holder because the LA has to pay the care home, on behalf of your mother, until the house is sold. But there's no excuse for delay when your mother is so vulnerable. I'm afraid you're going to have to pester the social worker, the finance department, anyone you can think of, until this is sorted. Ask the care home how long they can hold the room and insist to the SW that this must be sorted before that date. Good luck.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
1,645
Welcome to the forum. Is your Mum in a position to be able to pay for a care home at the moment, prior to her house being sold? You haven't posted much background - have social services carried out a care assessment and agreed that your Mum needs a care home? A financial assessment will also need to be carried out if it hasn't already been done. With regards to agreeing to a deferred payment, that will be down to the local authority financial team, not social services. Once they have agreed this they will provide a deferred payment contract to be signed, and will also agree a contract with the care home.

It's not unusual for social services to discuss/agree financial matters when in fact it isn't anything to do with them so if I were you I'd contact social services again to check exactly what the current position is and let them know that a home has offered your Mum a place. In my Mum's case it took months for the deferred payment contract to be sorted out (and even then it was wrong!) but the local authority paid her care home fees in the meantime. It took a lot of chasing up, emails and phone calls though!

With regards to what happens in the future, when your Mum's house is sold you will have to repay the care home fees that were paid under the deferred payment agreement. You can then use whatever is left to carry on paying her care home fees until her savings reach £24,500, at which point you will need to contact the local authority and ask for another financial assessment and help towards the care home fees. They will only pay up to a maximum amount so if the home costs more than this, as you have mentioned a top up payment may be required unless the home which has offered your Mum a place accepts the local authority rate (most don't). Alternatively the local authority will have to offer at least one placement in home which is within their budget and meets your Mum's care needs. I wouldn't worry too much about the future at the moment though - concentrate on chasing up social services and the finance team as that is the priority. Good luck.
 

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
Hi, I have no experience of this but I assume there is an LA budget holder because the LA has to pay the care home, on behalf of your mother, until the house is sold. But there's no excuse for delay when your mother is so vulnerable. I'm afraid you're going to have to pester the social worker, the finance department, anyone you can think of, until this is sorted. Ask the care home how long they can hold the room and insist to the SW that this must be sorted before that date. Good luck.
Thanks Norma, that’s very helpful.
 

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
Welcome to the forum. Is your Mum in a position to be able to pay for a care home at the moment, prior to her house being sold? You haven't posted much background - have social services carried out a care assessment and agreed that your Mum needs a care home? A financial assessment will also need to be carried out if it hasn't already been done. With regards to agreeing to a deferred payment, that will be down to the local authority financial team, not social services. Once they have agreed this they will provide a deferred payment contract to be signed, and will also agree a contract with the care home.

It's not unusual for social services to discuss/agree financial matters when in fact it isn't anything to do with them so if I were you I'd contact social services again to check exactly what the current position is and let them know that a home has offered your Mum a place. In my Mum's case it took months for the deferred payment contract to be sorted out (and even then it was wrong!) but the local authority paid her care home fees in the meantime. It took a lot of chasing up, emails and phone calls though!

With regards to what happens in the future, when your Mum's house is sold you will have to repay the care home fees that were paid under the deferred payment agreement. You can then use whatever is left to carry on paying her care home fees until her savings reach £24,500, at which point you will need to contact the local authority and ask for another financial assessment and help towards the care home fees. They will only pay up to a maximum amount so if the home costs more than this, as you have mentioned a top up payment may be required unless the home which has offered your Mum a place accepts the local authority rate (most don't). Alternatively the local authority will have to offer at least one placement in home which is within their budget and meets your Mum's care needs. I wouldn't worry too much about the future at the moment though - concentrate on chasing up social services and the finance team as that is the priority. Good luck.
Thanks Louise, for your informative reply. Yes, a care assessment has been carried out, as well as a financial assessment.
 

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
504
Hi @MrsOwl, sorry to hear about Mum, the positive is that her vulnerability has been identified and she wants to move to somewhere with more support. As @Louise7 has stated sorting the legal paperwork for the deferred payment may take sometime but should not prevent your Mum from moving straightaway into the care home if a place is available. Essentially the deferred payment is a charge accrued against the property as the Local Authority take care of the home care bills, and when the property is sold this comes off the proceeds of sale. They do tend to charge a small % interest too - also accrued against the property equity (rate depends on the authority), so selling the property will be probably be in your Mum's best interests.

Do chase them up as it sounds as though it is imperative that Mum is moved as soon as possible. When they are talking about 'the budget' I would guess they are meaning the funds for your Mum's immediate placement.

All the best
 

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
Hi @MrsOwl, sorry to hear about Mum, the positive is that her vulnerability has been identified and she wants to move to somewhere with more support. As @Louise7 has stated sorting the legal paperwork for the deferred payment may take sometime but should not prevent your Mum from moving straightaway into the care home if a place is available. Essentially the deferred payment is a charge accrued against the property as the Local Authority take care of the home care bills, and when the property is sold this comes off the proceeds of sale. They do tend to charge a small % interest too - also accrued against the property equity (rate depends on the authority), so selling the property will be probably be in your Mum's best interests.

Do chase them up as it sounds as though it is imperative that Mum is moved as soon as possible. When they are talking about 'the budget' I would guess they are meaning the funds for your Mum's immediate placement.

All the best
Thanks Pete, we will keep chasing them up.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
60
I would send a letter to social services. Pay for signed for mail.
In the letter I would say a vulnerable adult is spending long periods of time on their porch in this freezing weather, and they have dementia.
I would ask that they provide a written risk assessment for this.
This of course is a load of old rubbish, they won’t do a risk assessment. what your letter will do however is scare the staff. If something goes wrong now they will be in the firing line!
It may speed things up.
The other thing is to contact the home and see if they have any tips for you?
 

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
I would send a letter to social services. Pay for signed for mail.
In the letter I would say a vulnerable adult is spending long periods of time on their porch in this freezing weather, and they have dementia.
I would ask that they provide a written risk assessment for this.
This of course is a load of old rubbish, they won’t do a risk assessment. what your letter will do however is scare the staff. If something goes wrong now they will be in the firing line!
It may speed things up.
The other thing is to contact the home and see if they have any tips for you?
Thanks for your reply. We did speak to the care home manager yesterday, and he said that they would hold onto the room, and that this was the “usual situation”, so he’s used to this. The district nurse is trying to speak to the social worker again, and we are also going to speak to the doctor who was very concerned about mum also so we are pushing everyone that we can. A letter to social services is a good idea.
 

MrsOwl

New member
Feb 18, 2018
6
We finally got the go-ahead from social services today, which is great news! However, my brother spoke to mum about it and she had forgotten visiting, and got quite angry about it all, saying it was her house and she was staying in it. They hope to take her tomorrow for lunch, but the plan is for her to be staying. Am a bit concerned about how this will go, but hopefully the care homes are used to this situation.
 

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
504
hopefully the care homes are used to this situation.
Hi @MrsOwl, it is certainly always a difficult day for you all and I understand your trepidation, but they will be used to dealing with the situation. Your Mum may take a little while to settle but I'm sure she will feel happier with the support around her. I wish you all the best - keep posting.
 

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