Dad staying at respite an extra week

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by TNJJ, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    Visited dad at the home today and asked if he wanted to stay an extra week as the room was available.He thought about it after dinner and eventually said yes..

    I can see the decline in 10 days .He has had a bath and shaved and looking clean but he has more of the “vacant “look.
    He has been asking for food that he shouldn’t have but he has “capacity “so as we all know the mental capacity act we assume he has (even though I think it fluctuates)..
    But he has eaten it.

    I did find it funny that when the manager came to ask his address for something dad replied “5”.Then looked at me so I pretended I didn’t know.He couldn’t remember his address accept the town and village but not that he lived in a close.
    She was surprised that he didn’t know it.He hasn’t for a long time or his phone number.He knows his date of birth.
    As asked they have been checking if he has moved overnight.The answer is no .So he now has a grade 1 pressure sore on his bottom which I suspected weeks ago when he was at home.
    Also he has now become loose in his bowels and has an accident overnight so the information is interesting..
    I’m wondering if this means that I will eventually get a best interest meeting for him as he is alone overnight at home for 15 hours.
     
  2. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    3,371
    Nottinghamshire
    It must be a relief knowing your dad is being looked after for another week @TNJJ

    Do you think the time has come for permanent full time care?
     
  3. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    Yes.I have thought so for a while.My biggest bugbear is the “capacity “issue.You cannot force someone to go in but as dad doesn’t know his address and has incontinence issues overnight with no care.Im wondering what will happen next.He has a 1bedroom bungalow so no carer . He has a pressure area and doesn’t move .You cannot turn him overnight as one side of the bed is against the wall and no way of moving it(hospital bed)as dad has inbuilt furniture so no leeway.Unless all is moved to the dining room.
     
  4. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    3,371
    Nottinghamshire
    I would push for a best interests meeting. He really needs looking after 24/7 now.

    When dad's social worker asked him those questions he wasn't really able to answer them either. I insisted I wasn't able to keep dad safe and I'd hold SS responsible if anything happened to him because of their decision to send him home. Eventually they agreed not to.

    Of course when they asked him if he wanted to go home he said yes...but he didn't mean his bungalow - he insisted his home had stairs!
     
  5. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    I wasn’t sure if I could or if depended on on his “capacity “.
     
  6. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    3,371
    Nottinghamshire
    I think it may depend on his capacity @TNJJ but I would argue that not understanding what’s going to happen to his pressure area and his inability to move proves the need for 24/7 care and your dad’s lack of capacity to understand that he needs this care.

    With a bit of luck you’ll be able to persuade him to stay “until he’s feeling better”. Or “just another week” for as long as it takes for them to decide he lacks capacity.
     
  7. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    Dad hasn’t understood that for a while.It surprises me that people who work with dementia never go beyond what they see.When they ask a question like an address they are surprised he doesn’t know where he lives..Any way thank you.
    I will chat to dad during the week but I think it will end up with a best interest.
     
  8. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    3,371
    Nottinghamshire
    Good luck. I hope someone sees sense and you can keep him there.
     
  9. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,896
    Kent
    It`s not surprising your dad is probably ready for full time care @TNJJ.

    My husband only had a single period in respite care before needing permanent care.

    It`s as if we hold on for dear life, trying to provide for the needs of so many people with dementia and respite becomes a necessity. Only then do we see how unable to meet their needs we really are.
     
  10. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    3,371
    Nottinghamshire
    Just an extra thought @TNJJ - don’t mention the possibility of moving your dad’s bed to the dining room unless that’s what you’re prepared to do.
     
  11. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    By the end of the 2nd Dec it will be 3 weeks.Im gathering evidence that he needs full time .If necessary I will ask for a best interest if dad doesn’t agree. He agreed to the last week.

    It is so true but I like a lot of people cannot do any more.
     
  12. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    Thanks .No I’m not .Neither am I going to be sleeping on a camp bed in the lounge.At 55 I’m to old plus with Osteoarthritis it won’t do me any good.
     
  13. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    I went and had lunch at the carehome with dad today. He has definitely settled..
    We had a glass of wine at lunch.Another lady came and sat with us for lunch.It was a table for 3.We were the only ones in the small dining room. Then I took dad upstairs with another carer and we assisted him to walk with the gutter frame along the corridor and back at his request. He was chuffed he had done it.
    But then went into his chair in his room and started yawning.

    Funnily enough after a chat he wanted to go back down stairs.He has his own recliner.
    I had a chat to him about going home as he wondered if I had seen his carers.
    I told him I hadn’t.I asked him about going home and he said he “wasn’t bothered “!:rolleyes:

    He seems to be enjoying the company.He definitely is “fluctuating “ as I have had”When I can walk I can go out.”
    To “I’m never going out anywhere again “Difficult to keep up sometimes. But he is looking well.
    They are recording if he is turning over at night and he definitely isn’t .Although he fidgets..
    Not too bad a day really.
     
  14. pevensey

    pevensey Registered User

    Feb 14, 2012
    215
    Female
    South East Coast.
     
  15. pevensey

    pevensey Registered User

    Feb 14, 2012
    215
    Female
    South East Coast.
    HI TNJJ, your post was very interesting to read as I think it's time for my hubby to have permanent care now. He has vascular dementia and has got a lot worse, he can hardly walk now I could never leave him on his own and I have to do everything for him, and he cant really think for himself anymore. I'm so tired and I just cant cope. But you were saying about a best interest meeting because he has
    "Capscity " whats that, how can they say that when they dont know how to think things through, cant do anything for themselves, cant walk or keep their balance and so much more . My hubby has all these but at a meeting me and my daughter went to about permanent care they said " he has full capacity " he wants to go home. So they set up a care package for carers to come in 3 times a day but hes rude to them and a few times has told me not to let them in. Says he doesn't need them nor does he like his day centre. So how do I arrange a " Best interest meeting " and what does it entail. He was much happier in rehab for 5 weeks, and seemed to enjoy the surroundings and being with other people but at home he sits and cant make conversation or read or follow tv or even stroll around the house. So I'm sure a NICE care home he would be much happier in. When you say your gathering evidence that he needs full time care what sort of evidence is that please. I've got app with his GP to discuss how bad he is now a d GP is very good with him and hubby listens to him. I'm definitly going to ask for a Best interest meeting , is this easy to get do you know TTJJ I'm sorry for rambling but I feel I'm at the end of my tether, I'm 78 and would like a few yrs of Me Time which I haven't really had in all the 57 yrs we've been married.
    Good luck with your meeting I hope it goes as you want it to love.
     
  16. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    #16 TNJJ, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
    Hi.When people decide that someone has capacity there are 3 things to it..You have to ask the question like”What’s your address “? They have 2 retain the information and then give an informed response.So with dad it was “What is your address?” Dad thought about it and said “5”.But could not remember he lived in a Close .But he actually lives no 29. So he does not have “capacity “ for that.
    He does not know he is 86 he thinks he is 83. Neither does he know the year.

    A best interest meeting is when SS or the GP can override what the PWD wants.It usually is when a person is at risk either from themselves (dad cannot turn himself So is at risk of bedsores) as he does not understand that he needs care overnight..
    Dad has fluctuating capacity.Does your husband? Or if he is danger to himself.

    I had enough with dad.I did it 3years that was long enough.He is very demanding and likes to be in control (always has).Dad wouldn’t go to day care either but I’m afraid I went ahead and booked it anyway (Used to go 1 month for a bath as he cannot have 1 at home) He used to moan like hell but I’m afraid I went deaf.

    To arrange a Best Interest you need the GP to assess his “capacity “ again.I would be very surprised if he has “full capacity “.
    If your husband doesn’t want or like the carers than as he has “full capacity “ he can do things himself (probably can’t) but use it to your advantage.

    Write things down that your husband does/doesn’t do.
    Can he make a cup of tea? Can he fill the kettle and turn it on? Or does he forget?

    Dad cannot use a phone anymore.He only will when someone prepares the phone first.(ie does the dialling) Things like that. All the more information you have for the doctor the better.Post it ahead of time

    We/You are not responsible for our PWD even though they think we are..
    Good luck
     
  17. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    Ps.I booked dad into respite without his consent.I told him if he didn’t go he could stay at home with the carers for a fortnight .
    Regardless of what he thought I was taking a fortnight off anyway. He consented and has been in there 3 weeks now.
     
  18. pevensey

    pevensey Registered User

    Feb 14, 2012
    215
    Female
    South East Coast.
    Thankyou TNJJ, that's all very helpful. I've got app with GP tomorrow to discuss everything and hes very good with hubby and me, hubby always refused to go to respite but when I got GP out to visit him a few months ago about his mobility he was shocked and told him he needs to go into care for a few weeks and at first he refused then GP spoke to him and he agreed. He likes our GP and listens to him, BUT hes got much worse since then so hopefully GP will come out for home visit and see how bad he is. And NO, hubby cant use phone, or mobile or write very well, cant follow tv or read a paper but maybe he can read it but not understand it. he cant get dressed , I'm not allowed to talk to him at mealtimes as he says he has to concentrate on eating AND he cant walk so surely all that should prove a point. But it's a big help you explaining how it works. I will make notes of everything twice for GP and meeting if we get one. Hubby is very bossy and doesn't let anyone tell him or advice him what to do. Hes always very abrupt lacks conversation with me, and doesn't like the carers coming in or hates going to day centre, but they tell me hes " happy " and chatty there. Hes very unhappy at home and only talks when he wants something doing. But I'm determined to get the ball rolling in as I'm at end of my tether.
    Thankyou and Please be good to yourself.
     
  19. TNJJ

    TNJJ Registered User

    May 7, 2019
    806
    Female
    cornwall
    And you..Dads GP also told him he needed to think about a care home.He also wasn’t having any of it.But he is not the one doing anything.It is mainly me . So I’m afraid that sort of made my mind up and that’s when my line in the sand was drawn.If he wanted to go down that is fine but he is not taking me with him,sort of thing..Dad’s conversation is the “weather,What’s for dinner and I’m bored and cars” ..Let me know how it goes..
     
  20. pevensey

    pevensey Registered User

    Feb 14, 2012
    215
    Female
    South East Coast.
    Thankyou TNJJ, I'll keep you in the loop after GP app , you sound stronger than me, my daughter is always telling me I have to take my life in my hands and to " man up " she wants me to have the life I've never had on all my married life. I do too. but I suppose I've always been a bit scared of him even years ago. But I'm determined now.
     

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