Crawling on the floor

[MargaretB]

My husband Trevor went into a care home 6 weeks ago today. Since being in there he has continued the steep decline which made it impossible for me to continue to care for him at home. He has Lewy Body Disease, and he has now started taking his clothes off, for no apparent reason, and also getting down on the floor and crawling. The crawling has given him sore knees from carpet burns, and no matter how often the staff pick him up he is down again in minutes. He has also rolled about on his back on the floor and scraped the skin on his shoulders. I have never seen any reference to this behaviour before, is this a "normal" thing please? I am worried that this may give him sores that will refuse to heal if he carries on.
He is still very disturbed and wanders a lot, and since going into care seems not to know who I am any more. I feel guilty in that perhaps going into the home has expedited his decline.
Margaret

 

[Katrine]

Margaret, I haven't heard of this behaviour so I'll just give you my first impression when I read your post - do you think your husband is acting out being a baby? Perhaps a comfort activity?

Could the staff give him a soft blanket to roll around in / on when he does this? He might enjoy the sensation against his skin and perhaps will curl up in the blanket? Try with a fleece or blanket from home that will have a familiar smell and see if he takes to it.

 

[jeany123]

There is a old post here that I found

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...crawling-on-floor&highlight=crawling+dementia

 

[KatieB]

My FIL began crawling when was in his care home. This carried until he was no longer mobile. Unfortunately it just one of those things. The soft blanket idea may help. I know it's hard to watch someone you love behave this way.
Katie

 

[Grannie G]

My mother didn`t crawl but she did take her clothes off. It is very distressing to witness.

When I was visiting the staff tried to protect me by taking her into another room, but it did make me wonder how she behaved when I wasn`t there.

 

[Butter]

Yes - when my mother did this the nursing staff refered to her as 'putting herself on the floor'. I'm afraid it is a normal symptom of many illnesses. It is very very distressing. I am very sorry.

 

[Onlyme]

I have a medical condition that affects my balance sometimes and when it gets really bad I feel I am going to fall. I find the floor seems a safer bet until my symptoms pass. Perhaps he just feels safer down low?

 

[nicoise]

Perhaps he just feels safer down low?

I had that thought, Lemony has put it well.

Or perhaps he is forgetting how to walk?

 

[MargaretB]

Butter, "putting himself on the floor" is exactly how the staff at the home describe it. I have never heard of it before. I don't think it has anything to do with the unsteadiness in his walking as he slides himself out of the armchairs when he is sitting to get onto the floor. He would be mortified if he knew what he was doing.
Margaret

 

[greengirl]

Butter, "putting himself on the floor" is exactly how the staff at the home describe it. I have never heard of it before. I don't think it has anything to do with the unsteadiness in his walking as he slides himself out of the armchairs when he is sitting to get onto the floor. He would be mortified if he knew what he was doing.
Margaret

The blessing is that he doesn't know and is not suffering the humiliation of being aware. I think there is a cultural problem for us about being on the floor. Even if we fall over we get up as fast as possible feeling self conscious and silly. We don't spend much time on the floor, but actually it can be made comfortable - bean bags/ blankets and make us feel safe. Have you or the care staff tried getting down there with him, making eye contact and seeing if there is a connection to be made or comfort to be given? I don't know how practical this is but I do know that if someone has repetitive movements, e.g. as if they are completing an invisible task, mirroring those movements can help you make contact through the fog.
sorry if this sounds/or is just daft

Taking clothes off is very common but may be partly due to feeling too hot. Apart from fact that it has been pretty muggy the part of the brain that affects our response to temperature can be affected. A loose cotton gown/ kaftan/shirt might help?
gg

 

[NeverGiveUp]

I'm probably completely wrong but could it be that he feels itchy and can't express the feeling? Mum gets a very itchy back, saw the GP (who was also a dermatologist) and he said that elderly people often get very itchy skin. Our problem is that mum tends to us doors etc as scratching posts - think of a cow and a fence post. She is also now wriggling in an armchair to scratch her back, it is playing havoc with the joints of the chair.

I did wonder if it was the washing powder, changed it and still itchy. Could it be the CH use very harsh washing powders?

 

[TinaT]

I've seen my husband who suffers from LBD, and another resident also with LBD, when trying to pick up imaginary objects on the floor, fall down and be unable to get up which has caused them to crawl but they have both been settled back into chairs quickly whenever this has happened.

Thank God the carpets in my husband's care home are being changed for soft, plain looking lino. Whoever thought that a carpet with little tiny bits of colour mixed in was suitable for a care home with residents suffering from LBD must have no idea of hallucinating LBD sufferers problems of perception.
xxTinaT

 

[greengirl]

I'm probably completely wrong but could it be that he feels itchy and can't express the feeling? Mum gets a very itchy back, saw the GP (who was also a dermatologist) and he said that elderly people often get very itchy skin. Our problem is that mum tends to us doors etc as scratching posts - think of a cow and a fence post. She is also now wriggling in an armchair to scratch her back, it is playing havoc with the joints of the chair.

I did wonder if it was the washing powder, changed it and still itchy. Could it be the CH use very harsh washing powders?

Yes that's right. pruritus ? Can be down to washing powder as you say, medication, or unexplained. Calamine lotion can help as can anti histamines.
gg

 

[MargaretB]

Thank you for all the suggestions. The getting undressed bit is I think a "following procedure" type of behaviour with Trevor. By which I mean.........he fiddles with a button, finds it is done up, thinks he has to undo it, and carries on.........next [once logical] step is take off shirt, next step....oh I am getting undressed..........off with vest and trousers. If the staff managed to distract him the minute they saw him fiddling with the button it probably wouldn't happen, but they cannot possibly watch him every second of the day! He went to the toilet and the same thing happened.........trousers are down..............must be getting undressed............only this time he put the clothes in the wash basin and turned on the taps............obviously they were dirty!! It actually doesn't worry me all that much as after all he is in a care home, it's not as if he were doing it in the middle of M & S or somewhere. The crawling about and getting raw knees and shoulders worries me more, and then I have to ask myself what can I do by worrying about it? The staff are very good at the home, the Dr is aware and has prescribed cream to soothe the raw places............BUT he is my husband and I DO worry.
Margaret

 

[TinaT]

I do feel for you Margaret. It is terribly distressing to watch and I do fully understand how worrying it is for you. My worries come out in my dreams at night. I've had some terrifying ones about my husband and myself but they always end up by my being confused and helpless, unable to change the dream into something nice and manageable. No wonder I wake myself up just as the sun rises most days and spend the day worn out and tired.

xxTinaT

 

[SWMBO1950]

Hi

Not heard of the crawling but my FIL did undress in the early stages and I dont think it is that uncommon.

Hope you get the sore knees and shoulders sorted.

Best Wishes.

 

[winda]

When my mum was ill with cancer (but before she was diagnosed), she often would say that she wanted to get down onto the floor. She couldn't explain why, but it seemed to be something she would have found comforting, although she never did do it.

It must be distressing for you to see him like this. The blanket idea sounds like a good one

Thinking of you xx.

 

[Janmar]

Hi Margaret

My husband Trevor went into a care home 6 weeks ago today. Since being in there he has continued the steep decline which made it impossible for me to continue to care for him at home. He has Lewy Body Disease, and he has now started taking his clothes off, for no apparent reason, and also getting down on the floor and crawling. The crawling has given him sore knees from carpet burns, and no matter how often the staff pick him up he is down again in minutes. He has also rolled about on his back on the floor and scraped the skin on his shoulders. I have never seen any reference to this behaviour before, is this a "normal" thing please? I am worried that this may give him sores that will refuse to heal if he carries on.
He is still very disturbed and wanders a lot, and since going into care seems not to know who I am any more. I feel guilty in that perhaps going into the home has expedited his decline.
Margaret

My mother has lewy body and has recently gone into a ch. last week she too was crawling on the floor, and taking her clothes off for no reason. I know howdistressing this can be, I left the home and cried all the way home, and had another sleepless night. Four days later however she is back to being able to hold a conversation again and reasonably alert. I have been told by the care home that this is sort of behaviour lewy body sufferers display. I too feel guilty that the home has expedited her decline, but like you I suspect you have no choice. I know this won't be much comfort, but at least you know now that it is happening to other people as well. Take care.

 

[Witzend]

I'm probably completely wrong but could it be that he feels itchy and can't express the feeling? Mum gets a very itchy back, saw the GP (who was also a dermatologist) and he said that elderly people often get very itchy skin. Our problem is that mum tends to us doors etc as scratching posts - think of a cow and a fence post. She is also now wriggling in an armchair to scratch her back, it is playing havoc with the joints of the chair.

I did wonder if it was the washing powder, changed it and still itchy. Could it be the CH use very harsh washing powders?

My other has a lot of itches and scratches herself a lot, sometimes until her skin bleeds. I know this can be caused by UTIs but that has been ruled out. IMO it's largely down to dry skin, which can be very itchy, but she simply refuses any kind of soothing moisturiser, which I'm sure would help. I have tried several times (she simply gets angry if the carers try) - she says it damages her clothes.
What can you do??

 

[NeverGiveUp]

Witzend

We have tried creams etc but doesn't seem the answer. Have put prescribed moisturiser in bath but not that much difference. I had thought about the baby aspect of it - mummy puts cream on baby, baby feels better, but not sure. She has scaley mole type things which had me panicing, dermatologist GP said nothing to worry about, something old people get as well as itching.

Nw just try to keep her fingernails short so can do less damage to skin.

It is an odd one, I wonder if non dementia people have this scratching behaviour, it would be acted out in a less obvious way.