Covid vaccine......

[prittlewell]

I am uncertain whether to allow care home to administer vaccine.....

Mum has had dementia 8 years, and can still communicate to some degree, but is unable to use her legs so has to be lifted for every move, and is now doubly incontinent.

There is no way Mum would want to be in the state she is in, as she saw her own Mum go down this route, and made me promise I would not let the same thing happen to her (although this is really out of my control).

If she had any say, she would not want the vaccine as I know she would not want to prolong her life in her current state. Mum was prescribed Thalidomide in 1959, and although she took the tablets home, she chose not to take them, and always said how thankful she was she made that decision (as am I) and from that point she was quite distrustful of medication other than aspirin.

However, if I say I do not want her to have it, or any other medical treatment, the home makes me out to be some heartless individual, trying to speed up Mum’s demise!

I sometimes think the home just wants to keep Mum alive for as long as possible so they can keep the fees coming in.....

What are other views on patients having the vaccine.........

 

[Shedrech]

hi @prittlewell
I really think the staff are only trying to do what's best for your mum
(honestly, the question of money isn't relevant ... whenever a bed becomes available it's rarely empty long so fees will be paid by each new resident)

as for the vaccine ... you have to decide knowing your mum's past decisions, and in her best interests ... I understand what you mean about thalidomide, however not accepting vaccines has also led to much distress eg for children when some parents didn't take up childhood vaccinations

 

[prittlewell]

hi @prittlewell

(honestly, the question of money isn't relevant ... whenever a bed becomes available it's rarely empty long so fees will be paid by each new resident)

Mum went into the home in March 2018, and out of the 32 rooms, the maximum occupancy, at any point over the past 2.5 years, has been 23 rooms occupied.

 

[nita]

I think it may be a question of protecting everyone in the home including the staff so it is best that all are vaccinated.

 

[father ted]

I can see your concerns, if you know what your Mum would want for herself.
However I think what we want for ourselves can change as our circumstances do.

Having watched several documentaries on TV about Covid, the effects of severe Covid on young and old are truly frightening and I certainly would not see that as an option anyone would choose. From the homes perspective we know it can spread very quickly in those communities and I could quite see how they may make it a requirement for residents.

 

[prittlewell]

Technically, it is only those who do not have the vaccine that are at risk. It will be interesting to see if Care homes make it compulsory, and if a resident (or POA) refuses, what they would do.......

Like NHS staff, care homes cannot insist staff have the vaccine.

 

[Louise7]

@prittlewell You might find this fact sheet which explains consent in relation to the covid vaccination helpful:

Coronavirus (Covid) vaccines and dementia

Our information gives a summary of what people affected by dementia need to know about the Covid vaccines, including consenting to have a vaccine.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[jugglingmum]

Technically, it is only those who do not have the vaccine that are at risk

This isn't correct, the vaccine is 90% effective - so for every 10 people vaccinated only 9 will be protected, but if lots are vaccinated, then it can't spread. This is where the much talked about herd immunity comes into it. With the MMR vaccine it is 99% effective for measles and rubella but only 88% effective for mumps.

So all residents and staff having it is part of the protection for everyone.

 

[Hayley JS]

Hi @prittlewell, what an awful situation for your mum and you to be in, I can understand why you may question the benefit of your mum being vaccinated. I would just say covid 19 is a very nasty virus and I can't imagine anyone would choose to die that way. As others have said, mass vaccination is so important for the whole population, not just of the CH or even the UK, but the whole world. If you are unsure maybe it would help to talk it over with your GP

 

[LadyA]

@prittlewell It's a tough decision. personally, I wouldn't see having this vaccine as necessarily prolonging her life, but as trying to prevent a particularly horrible death. If your mum did get covid, she could die alone, surrounded by the terrifying sight of people in full ppe. My own mum is not in a care home (yet) but because of the isolation and the death she would have with covid, I will be whizzing her in to the doctor for her vaccination as soon as possible.

btw, my mum was also prescribed thalidomide when pregnant with me, and like your's, got the tablets but decided not to take them. She can't even remember why she didn't take them, but I, like you, am so very thankful that she didn't!

 

[nitram]

This isn't correct, the vaccine is 90% effective - so for every 10 people vaccinated only 9 will be protected, but if lots are vaccinated, then it can't spread

And the Oxford vaccine is only 60% unless the accidently discovered half dose followed by full dose is used in which case it is 90%.

A problem is that there were few over people over 55 in the half dose group and tests on older people are ongoing.

Have to wait and see what MRHA says.

 

[Firecatcher]

My Mum has Alzheimer’s but still has capacity to make decisions about her health and welfare. She hates the way she is and I will fully support her if she chooses not to have the vaccine. I would not want to see anyone with dementia have their life prolonged unnecessarily particularly if they’ve previously stated that they wouldn’t want to live with the condition. I’m also aware that many people talk about suicide at the time of diagnosis but simply forgot as the disease progresses. My Mum used to talk about suicide a lot. I won’t be having the vaccine - there are too many unknowns and I also narrowly escaped being a thalidomide baby. I also wouldn’t appreciate being kept alive in a nursing home and enduring any illness that would otherwise lead to my death being treated. Dying of Covid 19 isn’t pleasant but at least it’s not long and drawn out like Alzheimer’s.

 

[jennifer1967]

the other thin g i would say is that you might catch covid due to the fact you dont agree with the vaccine, but the next person sitting on the bus might catch it from you who might spread to any number of others and the pandemic gathers pace again. the decision you make could well have a knock on effect on others who wanted the vaccine but has not yet reached the point of having it. my husband is extremely vulnerable and i would not liker him to go through covid and fight for every breath because i didnt want him to linger with vascular dementia and end up on a ventilater or recover and have long covid. you are entitled to your opinion, i understand that, but maybe balance all the risks.

 

[MartinWL]

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of taking the vaccine, your mother has the right to refuse any medication she chooses to refuse and if you genuinely believe that is her wish then it has to be respected, whether or not it is wise or unwise, morally right or morrally wrong.
The right to refuse medical treatment is in the European Convention on Human Rights and I would shudder to think of living in a society where people could be compulsorily injected . I will be having the vaccination asap but we must respect the rights of individuals to refuse.