Council Tax rebates and disregard - a bit confused!

[Marnie63]

I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on this please.

Mum and I have been living in the same home together for a few years. The Council Tax bill is addressed jointly to me and mum and some time ago I applied for a rebate for her due to her low income/Pension Credit Guarantee and she was granted a full rebate. So to date we have been paying 50% of the full Council Tax bill, ie. me paying my full half and her getting full rebate for her half.

Since her dementia diagnosis I have been following up on any new benefits or allowances that she/we can apply for and have read about the Council Tax disregard for those with 'severe mental impairment'. I recently applied for a second Council Tax rebate for myself, as a carer, but they have refused due to my savings. But, out of the blue, the council have sent me a certificate for mum's doctor to sign her off with mental impairment, and also a form for me to apply for carers' rebate. As I understand it, if she is 'disregarded', then they will only count there as being one resident, ie me and I will get the 25% single person's rebate plus, (maybe), another 25% rebate for caring for her for over 35? hours a week.

So, we currently only pay half of the CTax bill anyway due to mum getting a full rebate already on her half due to her financial circumstances. If I now send in the form signed by the doc, will they start the calculation afresh on the full CTax liability and take two lots of 25% off, ending up with us paying the same as now, ie. 50% of the bill. OR, will they still give mum a 50% rebate based on her low income, then take two lots 0f 25% of my half of the bill, meaning I only actually pay 25% of the total CTax liability?

I guess what I'm asking is will they give a double rebate? Surely not? I suppose it wouldn't hurt to put the doctor's forms in, but I don't want to end up being worse off!

 

[Kevinl]

That's a good question Marnie and I really don't know the answer so this is just a few thoughts that others will no doubt add to.

"If you live in a property which is jointly owned, leased or rented by two or more people, you will be jointly responsible for paying council tax. There is only one council tax bill for each property.
In these cases the name of everyone who is jointly responsible will appear on the bill.
If the bill is in joint names you are all responsible for paying the whole Council Tax for the property.
We cannot split the bill between the joint Council Tax payers, for example, if there are three joint leaseholders, we cannot issue three bills for a third of the Council Tax that is due for the property". (From a local lA's webpage)

As they've given your mum a reduction on her half only that would imply they're treating you as half bill payers but in law you're "jointly and severally liable for the whole amount which is a bit at odds with treating you as 50% sharers in the bill.

It could be argued that if you get the doctor to sign the form then your mother is legally "disregarded" for CT purposes and so in effect you live in the house alone, you would then be liable for 100% of the CT with a 25% single person discount.
Obviously the council aren't trying to "stich you up" by sending these forms to you but as I say once she no longer legally (for council tax purposes) exists then I can't see any other outcome that you're going to get a 50% increase in the CT you have to pay.

This is my opinion not any form of legal advice, others may know a lot more than me or have actually done it for real so see what they have to say.

One thought is getting your name taken off the CT bill and maybe get an even bigger discount in just your mums name. Children who live with parents aren't usually on a CT bill so why are you, if the house/tenancy is in your mums name only they by being on the CT bill you are exposed to a potential liability for no return.
K

 

[Pete R]

I guess what I'm asking is will they give a double rebate? Surely not? I suppose it wouldn't hurt to put the doctor's forms in, but I don't want to end up being worse off!

Unfortunately I do not think you will get a double rebate. Your Mom will be exempt from CT and because you live there, as a carer, the reduction will be just 50%.

A full CT discount only applies if all in the house hold are SMI or students.

 

[Selinacroft]

Hi ,

You will be entitled to 50% double disregard on the original bill bringing the balance due to be paid down to 50%.(SMI and carer disregards)
You then claim CTB on what is due to be paid so this is where any income from being a carer is brought into play in the benefit calculation. If you were working full time on good money you would have to meet this 50% but if you were previously claiming some financial help towards CTAX (Not through disregards or exemptions) you may get some of that 50% paid on top of the 50% already disregarded. Hope that helps.

 

[Marnie63]

Thank you for the very useful advice. It seems to be as I thought - either go down the SMI and carer disregard route, or keep to the full 50% CTax rebate, as is. I think I'll just leave it. The reason both our names are on the bill is because we bought the house 50/50 (I sold mine and she sold hers and we bought together a few years back).

I am grateful in any case that we only have to pay 50% of the bill!

I think moving the full bill into mum's name may be 'illegal' because of how we bought the house.

 

[Pete R]

Thank you for the very useful advice. It seems to be as I thought - either go down the SMI and carer disregard route, or keep to the full 50% CTax rebate, as is. I think I'll just leave it. The reason both our names are on the bill is because we bought the house 50/50 (I sold mine and she sold hers and we bought together a few years back).

I would personally go the SMI route. Yes you end up paying the same but it gives you personally the 50% discount whereas at the moment you get none. This may have some impact with future benefits and it will also mean your Mum getting a full discount should (sorry for this) anything happens to you.

I think moving the full bill into mum's name may be 'illegal' because of how we bought the house.

I was quite surprised this was suggested as YES it would be illegal even if you didn't own half the house.

 

[Kevinl]

As always useful advice from Pete R and Selina, some of the most informed people on here when it comes to money issues ,however, when the disregard starts then Marnie's mum becomes disregarded and effectively ceases to exist for CT purposes then Marnie becomes the sole occupant of the house, much as if mum was a under 18 or a student.
Surely then as mum doesn't count for CT purposes then Marnie is liable for 100% of the CT bill with a 25% discount for living alone so 75% of the whole bill.
Hence I suggested that keeping mum's reduction on the grounds of her finances is the better option. Once she is disregarded her financial status will no longer exist and with it her zero payment, her name will come off the CT bill and Marnie is liable for the whole lot!
That's my take on the rules, CT isn't split 50/50 but when mum is disregarded then Marnie is the sole occupant of the house, so I would say getting a carers discount and a disregard are mutually exclusive, how can you get a CT carers discount for someone who for CT purposes doesn't exist?
As always this isn't legal advise and others may disagree but I can't see how mum is disregarded that Marnie isn't the sole occupant and so liable for the whole bill.
K

 

[Pete R]

.................and others may disagree but I can't see how mum is disregarded that Marnie isn't the sole occupant and so liable for the whole bill.

Both Marmie(as a carer) and her Mum(SMI) will be disregarded from paying CT and the property classed as empty. However only properties solely occupied by SMI or students are 100% exempt from CT (and I assume Marmie is neither) so a 50% charge is levied on the property.

This link is quite a good read and there is an appropriate example under "living with a carer" which may help.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=137

 

[Marnie63]

I really would like to understand what the official answer to this query is! I haven't got the signed form back from the doc yet, but when I do then I will give the benefits people at the council a call and put the query to them. I'll start off with "as you know, this is the situation now, so what's the best thing for me to do finance/benefit wise as regards our new situation".

My concern is that if I send them the SMI form and they disregard mum, putting me as sole occupant and therefore 100% liable, then I may only get the 25% single person discount (which I know I would definitely get in such a situation). I think that's the crux of it - will our local council definitely give the further 25% discount to me as a carer? I suspect they will, as they have clearly sent an SMI form for the doc to sign, plus another form headed 'Council Tax (Discount Disregards) Regulations 1992 - Carers'. The form starts with "it has been indicated that a member of your household is a carer. If this person satisfied certain conditions within the above legislation, and is aged 18 or over, then he/she may be classified as a disregarded person in the calculation of your Council Tax".

I'm finding the word 'disregarded' in this context rather confusing as that to me indicates that you are not liable at all, but it seems that is not what is means at all!

This is important to me as every penny helps - I've gone from earning a decent wage to living on £62.10 a week! It's completely insulting, but then you all know that only too well ...

 

[Marnie63]

Actually, reading Pete's post again, I've probably misunderstood. I probably WILL be disregarded (ie. not liable at all), but as the house will then be classed as empty, the law of paying 50% CTax then applies to the property. That's it - isn't it? Have I finally got there?!!

Maybe that would be best then as, as Pete said, me being an official carer and 'disregarded' as far as the council are concerned, may open up some other options for help and support, maybe?

 

[Pete R]

Actually, reading Pete's post again, I've probably misunderstood. I probably WILL be disregarded (ie. not liable at all), but as the house will then be classed as empty, the law of paying 50% CTax then applies to the property. That's it - isn't it? Have I finally got there?!!

Maybe that would be best then as, as Pete said, me being an official carer and 'disregarded' as far as the council are concerned, may open up some other options for help and support, maybe?

I agree it is a tad confusing as it says that you will both be disregarded but then that you will still be charged the 50%.

I have always found my council very helpful with CT maybe you should just call yours and ask them to put your mind at rest.

 

[Marnie63]

Clarification from Council

I promised to give an update once I had a definitive answer!

I just spoke to someone in the council's revenues team. They confirmed that mum will be totally disregarded for CTax due to her 'Severe Mental Impairment'. They also confirmed that I will be totally disregarded as a carer. Therefore neither of us will be liable for any CTax. There will still, however, be the property charge (as if it was empty), which is 50%. So we'll end up exactly where we are now, but under the correct 'banner'.

I know this was the conclusion we all kind of reached and which some advised would be the case, but just wanted to confirm in case it helps anyone else.