On our local council website it's hidden under "People Discounts", try searching for "disregards". If you look under the disabled pages you will find nothing as I found out several times until someone gave me the magic word.
Council Tax Discount
- Thread starter Selinacroft
- Start date
On our local council website it's hidden under "People Discounts", try searching for "disregards". If you look under the disabled pages you will find nothing as I found out several times until someone gave me the magic word.
The distinction between disregard and discount can be crucial.
A disregard means the person is disregarded for council tax purposes which reduces the occupancy by one. There is no impact on any other benefit.
When a discount is applied it can affect other benefits.
If you get an SMI disregard and they say it effects benefits tell them to look at the rule book.
A disregard means the person is disregarded for council tax purposes which reduces the occupancy by one. There is no impact on any other benefit.
When a discount is applied it can affect other benefits.
If you get an SMI disregard and they say it effects benefits tell them to look at the rule book.
C Tax Exemption Rather Than Discount
I don't know if all Council's will be the same but for Manchester City Council, if all members of the household have a severe mental illness - dementia is on the list - the household is exempt. As my mother lives alone she is completely exempt of any charge rather than receiving only a discount. I came across this by accident so may be worth ringing your local council. They automatically backdated the exemption to the date of the diagnosis on the GP letter, which was over a year before. You might be in for a healthy refund!
I don't know if all Council's will be the same but for Manchester City Council, if all members of the household have a severe mental illness - dementia is on the list - the household is exempt. As my mother lives alone she is completely exempt of any charge rather than receiving only a discount. I came across this by accident so may be worth ringing your local council. They automatically backdated the exemption to the date of the diagnosis on the GP letter, which was over a year before. You might be in for a healthy refund!
I am seeing a similar obstacle, in that spouse had an assessment 9 Sep 2010 .
by a consultant for 'Older Peoples Mental Health Assessment' and under DIAGNOSIS wrote "memory problems, no diagnosis as yet"
A letter from consultant to GP states "Possible Alzheimer's disease"
In Mar 2011 a 'memory nurse' prescribed DONEPIZIL
It now seems that the prescribing date has become the 'onset' date as far as the practice is concerned.
How stupid is that!
If I fell down and broke something and lay undiscovered for some days would 'the onset' be from when found.
I say the disease was existing, at least, from when the GP was consulted because of the symptoms being present. That was nearly a year earlier than the date the GP certified.
The disease requires the carer to expect and put up with a wide range of repeating difficulties from the sufferer - we should not have to put up with comparable untruths and derangement from those who are supposed to be helping us thro' these difficult times.
I intend to fight on - I guess it provides an outlet for some of frustrations...
Backdating of disregard
Have I misunderstood that the relief is back-datable?
The Council officer has said:-
"Please note that discount and exemptions need to be claimed at the time and are not backdated. Therefore the date of your wife’s disability starting is a moot point as I can only start the discount on 1st April 2015, the beginning of the current financial year. We would request that doctors would reply to us directly, when we request information from them."
Where can I find the official statement that shows one way or the other.
Not saying the council is wrong but so many other officials have been that I need ch&vs to be able to contest if appropriate
Have I misunderstood that the relief is back-datable?
The Council officer has said:-
"Please note that discount and exemptions need to be claimed at the time and are not backdated. Therefore the date of your wife’s disability starting is a moot point as I can only start the discount on 1st April 2015, the beginning of the current financial year. We would request that doctors would reply to us directly, when we request information from them."
Where can I find the official statement that shows one way or the other.
Not saying the council is wrong but so many other officials have been that I need ch&vs to be able to contest if appropriate
From the fact sheet (link below);
Backdating for discounts and exemptions
The discounts and exemptions mentioned here can be backdated to when they should have first applied. It is not necessary to give a reason as to why they were not originally applied for, but it will be necessary to prove that the criteria for an exemption or discount applied at the relevant time in the past.
There is no time limit for backdating claims for this reduction. Applications should be made to the local council.
I love the phrase "moot point" what does that mean, we don't want to talk about it?
I've never heard anyone say they didn't get it backdated on here and I got mine backdated without asking.
The date she became disregarded is the date when you can show she had an SMI, like a diagnosis or the award of a benefit with respect to her condition, even being prescribed medication for the condition should be proof.
Visiting time for me now but I'll try and find proof they have to backdate later on if no one beats me to it.
K
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=137
A discount because of severe mental impairment can be made regardless of the income or savings of the person concerned.
Backdating a Council Tax discount claim
Council Tax discount can be backdated to the date when Council Tax was first introduced, on April 1 1993.
You don't have to give a reason why you didn't previously apply for a discount, exemption or disability reduction, but you will need to provide evidence that you were eligible for previous years.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/help-paying-council-tax.aspx
I'll see if I can find something in legislation
Backdating a Council Tax discount claim
Council Tax discount can be backdated to the date when Council Tax was first introduced, on April 1 1993.
You don't have to give a reason why you didn't previously apply for a discount, exemption or disability reduction, but you will need to provide evidence that you were eligible for previous years.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/help-paying-council-tax.aspx
I'll see if I can find something in legislation
I've posted about this and I am still trying to get dad disregarded
The New Years bill arrived today and has gone up with an additional charge on it called social services care
How can they increase it with this new charge ?
Dad already pays towards his care through social services
Has anyone else had or seen this on their council tax bill ?
The New Years bill arrived today and has gone up with an additional charge on it called social services care
How can they increase it with this new charge ?
Dad already pays towards his care through social services
Has anyone else had or seen this on their council tax bill ?
The government have said that councils can charge an extra 2 percent on council tax but it must only be used for social care
Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
I think I found what I was looking for:
The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 says in Part 4 section 14
"Ascertainment of entitlement to discount
14. Before making any calculation for the purposes of Part V of these Regulations of the chargeable amount in respect of any dwelling in its area, a billing authority shall take reasonable steps to ascertain whether that amount is subject to any discount under section 11 of the Act or, in the case of a chargeable dwelling in Wales, that section or section 12 of the Act, and if so, the amount of that discount."
So before they can charge CT they have to "take reasonable steps to ascertain whether that amount is subject to any discount" so it's for them to check not for you to find out.
Hence I would argue they have been lax in applying this part of the law by not making the checks properly.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/made
The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 says in Part 4 section 14
"Ascertainment of entitlement to discount
14. Before making any calculation for the purposes of Part V of these Regulations of the chargeable amount in respect of any dwelling in its area, a billing authority shall take reasonable steps to ascertain whether that amount is subject to any discount under section 11 of the Act or, in the case of a chargeable dwelling in Wales, that section or section 12 of the Act, and if so, the amount of that discount."
So before they can charge CT they have to "take reasonable steps to ascertain whether that amount is subject to any discount" so it's for them to check not for you to find out.
Hence I would argue they have been lax in applying this part of the law by not making the checks properly.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/made
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Thank you very much, that is really just what I was hoping for. It shows - again - that unreliable officialdom can be challenged.
I have found this whole process to be riddled with incompetence and mendacity since first applying on 26 Nov 2015. Constantly, I find these people are willfully unable to understand the written word, take phrases out of context and use devious authoritarianism to follow their own agenda.
How would folk like me cope without the generous help from folk like you...
Again many thanks
Thank you very much, that is really just what I was hoping for. It shows - again - that unreliable officialdom can be challenged.
I have found this whole process to be riddled with incompetence and mendacity since first applying on 26 Nov 2015. Constantly, I find these people are willfully unable to understand the written word, take phrases out of context and use devious authoritarianism to follow their own agenda.
How would folk like me cope without the generous help from folk like you...
Again many thanks
I have it on my new council tax bill for this year. I presume it is to help towards the soaring cost of care that the LA are supplying.
< but you will need to provide evidence that you were eligible for previous years.>
Following on;
The council agreed that a repayment was due -- backdating limited to current financial year c £350 ish
I disputed that and they extended it to their record of AA; £750 ish
I contested that as I have the original record of AA approval - no response yet - expect £1000 ish
In fact I contest their aligning with anything that does not take account of the GP cert of SMI and even further back to the consultant's report that demonstrated very low scores on assessment.
The council appears to believe they have the power to decide what evidence is acceptable to them.
As they required the GP cert as the evidence - in the first instance - can they now decide that they can apply a different set of qualifications?
Which leaves me wondering what power does the NHS have to enforce their rules.
Do they have the force of law?
Can the council be taken to the small claims court if they misapply the rules or is there another authority that can bring them to accept NHS rules?
Following on;
The council agreed that a repayment was due -- backdating limited to current financial year c £350 ish
I disputed that and they extended it to their record of AA; £750 ish
I contested that as I have the original record of AA approval - no response yet - expect £1000 ish
In fact I contest their aligning with anything that does not take account of the GP cert of SMI and even further back to the consultant's report that demonstrated very low scores on assessment.
The council appears to believe they have the power to decide what evidence is acceptable to them.
As they required the GP cert as the evidence - in the first instance - can they now decide that they can apply a different set of qualifications?
Which leaves me wondering what power does the NHS have to enforce their rules.
Do they have the force of law?
Can the council be taken to the small claims court if they misapply the rules or is there another authority that can bring them to accept NHS rules?
Keep on pushing, from the day AA was awarded for an SMI that person was disregarded for CT not when the council became aware of it so they have to backdate as they have taken money they're not legally entitled to.
The law says:
The severely mentally impaired
(1) A person shall be disregarded for the purposes of discount on a particular day if—
(a) on the day he is severely mentally impaired;
Note it says "on the day" not the day the council became aware or any other day they care to choose the day they had an SMI so the award of AA is the day in question.
Frankly the LA is in the wrong and will eventually back down, I hope you're copying your MP on in the emails.
Please ask them to read the law and follow it correctly with particular regard to; The Local Government Finance Act 1992 and specifically schedule 1, section 2, paragraph 1.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/schedule/1
The law says:
The severely mentally impaired
(1) A person shall be disregarded for the purposes of discount on a particular day if—
(a) on the day he is severely mentally impaired;
Note it says "on the day" not the day the council became aware or any other day they care to choose the day they had an SMI so the award of AA is the day in question.
Frankly the LA is in the wrong and will eventually back down, I hope you're copying your MP on in the emails.
Please ask them to read the law and follow it correctly with particular regard to; The Local Government Finance Act 1992 and specifically schedule 1, section 2, paragraph 1.
K
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/schedule/1
<so the award of AA is the day in question.>
I am pressing for a day earlier than the award of AA.
The day I see, as a minimum, as relevant is the date of onset certified by the GP.
However the most appropriate is that date when the patient was assessed by the Consultant in a report titled 'OLDER PEOPLES MENTAL HEALTH INITIAL ASSESSMENT' that recorded scores of 26/30 - 15/30 - 4/14.
I would make a layman's assumption that was not a good score and it indicated that person was not capable of independent living.
So, I am now at odds with the GP and the local authority and have the support of an advocate and Healthwatch. I have also attempted to contact THE OLDER PEOPLES MENTAL HEALTH DEPT to give an opinion based on the consultant's report. All these people's time and resources being squandered in trying to deny the obvious - I suppose they are hoping I'll drop dead before they have to roll over
I am pressing for a day earlier than the award of AA.
The day I see, as a minimum, as relevant is the date of onset certified by the GP.
However the most appropriate is that date when the patient was assessed by the Consultant in a report titled 'OLDER PEOPLES MENTAL HEALTH INITIAL ASSESSMENT' that recorded scores of 26/30 - 15/30 - 4/14.
I would make a layman's assumption that was not a good score and it indicated that person was not capable of independent living.
So, I am now at odds with the GP and the local authority and have the support of an advocate and Healthwatch. I have also attempted to contact THE OLDER PEOPLES MENTAL HEALTH DEPT to give an opinion based on the consultant's report. All these people's time and resources being squandered in trying to deny the obvious - I suppose they are hoping I'll drop dead before they have to roll over
I think you should start a thread about the battle with the LA in the Legal and Finance section on here where it would be more appropriate and we could comment there.
Personally though I don' think you have a chance, doing this would overturn all the current practices based on the Government's own guidelines to the LA's.
You do say "All these people's time and resources being squandered", it's actually a lot more than what they pay you, it's the fact they would have to do it for everyone else, nationwide, if they back down in your case they open the floodgates.
Good luck
K
Personally though I don' think you have a chance, doing this would overturn all the current practices based on the Government's own guidelines to the LA's.
You do say "All these people's time and resources being squandered", it's actually a lot more than what they pay you, it's the fact they would have to do it for everyone else, nationwide, if they back down in your case they open the floodgates.
Good luck
K
I've only just read the last couple of posts but think I've got the gist of it. The problem with awarding it from date of AA is that AA can be awarded for dozens of different conditions many of which are totally unrelated to being diagnosed SMI. Yhe LA doesn't have any authority to poke around medical history to see why AA was granted. I've worked in lots of CTAX offices for my sins and each place I worked in awarded it to the latest date from which all the criteria applied, this was almost always the date that the GP had diagnosed SMI.
