• All threads and posts regarding Coronavirus COVID-19 can now be found in our new area specifically for Coronavirus COVID-19 discussion.

    You can directly access this area >here<.

CoP welfare deputy order refused. What to do next?

Lainey 127

Registered User
Nov 25, 2012
216
Liverpool UK
Reading these posts with interest. I have just applied for CoP order for both welfare and financial purposes for my Mum. Her dementia came upon her so rapidly this year that by the time we had had a diagnosis and sorted out a care package, Mum was already past the stage when we could have applied for PoA. The solicitor said we'd need CoP order.
I'm doing it by myself as I can't afford solicitors legal fees, the forms aren't difficult but the court have returned them to me twice now because I've filled/not filled in one of the forms.
Last week the personal welfare order was refused and returned to me. The judge said I had not given sufficient evidence that Mum needed a personal welfare order. I'm at a loss as to what I've done wrong? Mum has already lost the capacity to hold a conversation, she can talk but it's a string of jumbled up words. She often cannot understand what I'm telling her and if I don't keep an eye on her she is likely to do herself harm. There is no way she could call the doctor, feed herself or take her medicines by herself.
Her GP backed my statement up in the Assessment of Capacity form so why does the judge think Mum is capable of making her own welfare decisions? What do I do next? Apply again?
The financial affairs application is still going ahead as far as I'm aware.
Grateful for any information or pointers in the right direction!
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
You haven't done anything wrong. The truth is: welfare deputy application are rarely granted in England and Wales. It only happens when there are ongoing and complex decisions to be made. The belief is that the Mental Capacity Act and the guidance contained within is in 99% of cases adequate. And I have to agree.

Please don't think you've failed, but don't bother to reapply. You won't get it. I'm sorry you didn't ask here first - we would have told you that success in this area was extremely unlikely.

Edit: Ack - this sounds a bit like kicking you when you are down. The truth is, this application was probably going to fail, and that is nothing to do with you or your application, but the current views of the court. So no blame or guilt.
 
Last edited:

Lainey 127

Registered User
Nov 25, 2012
216
Liverpool UK
Please don't think you've failed, but don't bother to reapply. You won't get it. I'm sorry you didn't ask here first - we would have told you that success in this area was extremely unlikely.

Edit: Ack - this sounds a bit like kicking you when you are down. The truth is, this application was probably going to fail, and that is nothing to do with you or your application, but the current views of the court. So no blame or guilt.
Well thanks for that. I'm still confused as it was actually Mums GP who told me to apply for the personal welfare CoP order but at least I know now that it's not anything I've done or haven't done. I'm sorry if I sound naive but what does 'personal welfare' actually mean then?
 

AliCat123

New member
Nov 29, 2019
4
I've just had my application denied today with no reasoning why and then on Google discover this thread. Why oh why isn't their guidance on this from all the Alzheimer's charities when you get the initial diagnosis? I hadn't planned on applying for this, as had felt the doctors and health staff were working on the same side as us, but her consultant in hospital advised it. Money, time and stress expended for no reason at all - at a time when I feel under so much pressure to sort out everything for my mum. If you have cancer you get a specialists nurse to support you and lots of help and support - a parent with dementia and it feels like I'm tackling this alone.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,196
South coast
The trouble is that very few people understand about CoP.
When you apply for POA you are rightly advised to go for both Financial and Health & Welfare, so people assume that you should go for both when applying for deputyship. Unfortunately, as you have discovered, the CoP very rarely awards the H&W (and you dont get your money back either!).

If it helps, I can honestly say that I only had Financial deputyship for my mum and there were no times when it caused a problem.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
1,631
North West
I agree with @canary. I only have LPA for property and finances and throughout this journey I have not needed LPA for H&W everything has been straight forward so far even with the end-of-life discussions I've had this week an LPA for H&W wasn't required.

Forgot to say that I did come close to having to apply for CoP H&W deputyship but soon learned that this would not be granted. I think what is in place is sufficient for most scenarios and the burden of proof over capacity can be reconciled within current provisions under the MHA
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,203
Sorry you went through that for nothing, things are difficult enough without additional pointless aggravating paperwork.

I have LPA for my mother, but only financial, not health and welfare. I've been using the LPA for over 4 years, have arranged care at home and then subsequently moved her to a care home, and I haven't encountered any problems. Medics and carers are happy to talk to me just as next of kin - so yes, your initial feeling was absolutely right.
 

Recent Threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
114,405
Messages
1,673,711
Members
65,466
Latest member
esmith00