Hi folks,
Has anyone got continuous health care for their relatives ? My father is currently in hospital.
Has anyone got continuous health care for their relatives ? My father is currently in hospital.
Continuous health care
- Thread starter grahamrose
- Start date
Hi folks,
Has anyone got continuous care health for their relatives ? My father is currently in hospital.[/QUOTE
Hi Grahamrose
Welcome to TP. My Husband has been awarded CHC. As many on here will tell you it's a murky businessMy Husband (severe stage AD and Bi-polar) was awarded CHC due to the unpredictability and intensity of his condition.
Many, many more people fight to get (and retain) CHC-if you just search on this Forum you will see cases that are so obviously more than 'social needs'. It also seems to vary from area to area.
Perhaps you could let us know some details about your Dad. Why he is in hospital at the moment/how long he has been ill etc.
Take care
Lyn T
Hi Graham
As Lyn correctly states, it can be a bit of a lottery with many people subjected to a number of hurdles even where they demonstrably have a primary health need. The overriding principle is that the NHS has a statutory duty to provide free nursing healthcare.
Sadly it is an area that the NHS will knowingly renege on its responsibilities, largely due to their desire to avoid the costs involved. Various tactics are used in this process, but essentially this often involves the downplaying of someone's needs and effectively handing responsibility over to the Local Authority Social Services. The latter can "means test" the person's assets, including house ownership...you can already see where this is going!
As a first step, I recommend you peruse the documents in the following link as a bit of weekend reading, and then come back for clarification or further advice.
Best of luck!
Regards
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...inuing-healthcare-and-nhs-funded-nursing-care
As Lyn correctly states, it can be a bit of a lottery with many people subjected to a number of hurdles even where they demonstrably have a primary health need. The overriding principle is that the NHS has a statutory duty to provide free nursing healthcare.
Sadly it is an area that the NHS will knowingly renege on its responsibilities, largely due to their desire to avoid the costs involved. Various tactics are used in this process, but essentially this often involves the downplaying of someone's needs and effectively handing responsibility over to the Local Authority Social Services. The latter can "means test" the person's assets, including house ownership...you can already see where this is going!
As a first step, I recommend you peruse the documents in the following link as a bit of weekend reading, and then come back for clarification or further advice.
Best of luck!
Regards
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...inuing-healthcare-and-nhs-funded-nursing-care
"Social needs" that are a result of a primary health need are actually still the sole responsibility of the NHS.
This is how the NHS con most people, as the framework will judge you not eligible of you don't need full time trained nursing care.
Your choice if you let them get away with that.
This is how the NHS con most people, as the framework will judge you not eligible of you don't need full time trained nursing care.
Your choice if you let them get away with that.
Hi folks,
Has anyone got continuous care health for their relatives ? My father is currently in hospital.[/QUOTE
Hi Grahamrose
Welcome to TP. My Husband has been awarded CHC. As many on here will tell you it's a murky business
Many, many more people fight to get (and retain) CHC-if you just search on this Forum you will see cases that are so obviously more than 'social needs'. It also seems to vary from area to area.
Perhaps you could let us know some details about your Dad. Why he is in hospital at the moment/how long he has been ill etc.
Take care
Lyn
Hi Lyn.
Thanks for your reply.
My dad was admitted to hospital, because he was having falls around the house.
Since he has been in hospital( three weeks now) his Alzheimer's has got worse.
The hospital has said he needs twenty- four hours care, but not mentioned about CHC.
They want me to find him a nursing home, which he is to be medically assessed, and financially assessed too. On which I can not get my head round !.
Cheers Graham
Hi Graham
Ask the hospital to do a CHC check list for starters. Although I have to say when Pete was in hospital and they did a checklist they play down the behaviour etc so he didn't 'pass' to go onto the assessment stage (just my opinion) it's a cost saving exercise for them.
If your Dad has residential care the CH/NH staff would keep records and another checklist could be done at your request. (well that's what happened in Pete's case-but others may give you different info) In Pete's case he scored so highly he went straight to the assessment stage and the decision didn't have to go before a panel.
One other thing make sure you get copies of any checklist/assessment outcomes. You will need these to compare with your own notes (record everything-every conversation/who with etc)
Good luck
Lyn T
Ask the hospital to do a CHC check list for starters. Although I have to say when Pete was in hospital and they did a checklist they play down the behaviour etc so he didn't 'pass' to go onto the assessment stage (just my opinion) it's a cost saving exercise for them.
If your Dad has residential care the CH/NH staff would keep records and another checklist could be done at your request. (well that's what happened in Pete's case-but others may give you different info) In Pete's case he scored so highly he went straight to the assessment stage and the decision didn't have to go before a panel.
One other thing make sure you get copies of any checklist/assessment outcomes. You will need these to compare with your own notes (record everything-every conversation/who with etc)
Good luck
Lyn T
Frodo - do you have any info / Links that supports this above statement. I have re-assessment for my dad in 2 weeks and I would like to read-up on this... don't to be in a situation were I am saying something which I don't really understand.
thanks!
Hi Brodie,
Fr0d0 is correct in his statement.
I think you will find sec 33 of the CHC national framework covers basically what he says.
Where an individual has a primary health need and is therefore eligible for CHC funding.
The NHS is responsible for all the individuals assessed health and social care needs.
Mick
I have an appeal on 10th April - wish me luck I am ready and I have lots to throw at them - how dare they say mum's needs are "social" and not due to a primary health need - this process is unfair stressful and weighted against the disabled person.
It needs to be changed asap x
It needs to be changed asap x
Good luck with your appeal in April
I have two disputes on going at the moment which I am told should be given the chance to be resolved locally. The first starting back last April so I am being forced down the Ombudsman route next week.
Just read an article on the BBC web site, "NHS told to streamline complicated complaint system".It's on the Health page could not paste link. Not specific to any one service but worth a read.
Thought it was worth just adding a comment at the end of the article "Have you a formal complaint about the NHS", million to one chance the BBC will listen but it helped me have another rant about NHS Continuous Healthcare appeal process.
I have two disputes on going at the moment which I am told should be given the chance to be resolved locally. The first starting back last April so I am being forced down the Ombudsman route next week.
Just read an article on the BBC web site, "NHS told to streamline complicated complaint system".It's on the Health page could not paste link. Not specific to any one service but worth a read.
Thought it was worth just adding a comment at the end of the article "Have you a formal complaint about the NHS", million to one chance the BBC will listen but it helped me have another rant about NHS Continuous Healthcare appeal process.
Our experience of CHC
When my mum was discharged from hospital in January (following a fall) there was no mention of completing the 'Trigger' document to see if she may be eligible for CHC. I was a bit green at that time & didn't realise that this should always be done. Anyway, after a week at home we had to involve social services as we couldn't manage mum safely in the home any longer (more falls & a dog-food-eating incident).
Mum was admitted into an EMI residential unit and was part funded by SS for the first 12 weeks. Towards the end of this period she suffered a couple more falls and a serious head injury/pelvic fracture hospitalised her. I did a lot of reading up on CHC (lots on here) and once it was decided to discharge her back into a nursing home I downloaded and filled in the DST. A member of the nursing staff had started one off in her file & it completely underplayed her problems - what a surprise! I gave a copy of my DST to the hospital and asked the charge nurse to make sure I had input into the process; he re-assessed Mum - agreeing with me on every point! (He then said the member of staff who did the original assessment didn't have enough English language skill and that he would be reviewing all of the assessments in future!)
Anyway, the upshot was that there was an emergency meeting of the Discharge Team leader (nursing staff), a social worker and me and the documents were thoroughly discussed. The outcome was that Mum was immediately awarded CHC and was discharged to the nursing home the same afternoon. I was astounded at how quickly it all happened & that we didn't have to go to a panel. I am convinced that because I looked as if I knew what I was talking about and had a sheaf of NHS docs on CHC the staff took the case more seriously.
However, I must add that Mum IS very poorly. She has advanced AD and possible vascular, osteoperosis, fragile skin, a BMI of 15 and is refusing food & drink. She won't need CHC for very long, I'm afraid.
When my mum was discharged from hospital in January (following a fall) there was no mention of completing the 'Trigger' document to see if she may be eligible for CHC. I was a bit green at that time & didn't realise that this should always be done. Anyway, after a week at home we had to involve social services as we couldn't manage mum safely in the home any longer (more falls & a dog-food-eating incident).
Mum was admitted into an EMI residential unit and was part funded by SS for the first 12 weeks. Towards the end of this period she suffered a couple more falls and a serious head injury/pelvic fracture hospitalised her. I did a lot of reading up on CHC (lots on here) and once it was decided to discharge her back into a nursing home I downloaded and filled in the DST. A member of the nursing staff had started one off in her file & it completely underplayed her problems - what a surprise! I gave a copy of my DST to the hospital and asked the charge nurse to make sure I had input into the process; he re-assessed Mum - agreeing with me on every point! (He then said the member of staff who did the original assessment didn't have enough English language skill and that he would be reviewing all of the assessments in future!)
Anyway, the upshot was that there was an emergency meeting of the Discharge Team leader (nursing staff), a social worker and me and the documents were thoroughly discussed. The outcome was that Mum was immediately awarded CHC and was discharged to the nursing home the same afternoon. I was astounded at how quickly it all happened & that we didn't have to go to a panel. I am convinced that because I looked as if I knew what I was talking about and had a sheaf of NHS docs on CHC the staff took the case more seriously.
However, I must add that Mum IS very poorly. She has advanced AD and possible vascular, osteoperosis, fragile skin, a BMI of 15 and is refusing food & drink. She won't need CHC for very long, I'm afraid.
Continuous Care But What Then?
Hi, new to all this and perhaps I should have started months ago. AnyWho,...
My father has Severe Alzheimers and if I didn't know better he could pass for Suárez and is better with his elbows than most of the French team, both football & rugby.
He hasn't always been an officer, but he has always a gentleman; so he would be mortified if he knew what has gone on over the last few years.
In short he stopped driving about 3-4 years ago, started getting punchy (amongst other things) in the summer of 2013 and progressively got more agitated and aggressive in the last half of the year. My poor mother has born the brunt and I can't count the number of times I've received calls at all times of the day and had to rescue my mother from the bathroom, downstairs cloakroom or spare room (all fitted with locks). Fortunately I live a stones throw and I don't think the neighbours ever spotted me jogging in my pyjamas.
Subsequent to all this my father has been confined to an NHS hospital since January under the Mental Capacity (or lack of) Act and to be honest it's the best place for him; my mother has been given some well earned rest-bite (sorry for the pun!)
To get to the point, the NHS Hospital team (who have been brilliant btw) have recommended Continuous Care and filled out the Decision Support Tool document found on one of the government websites.
I am sorry, but as I have less than 10 posts, I can not include the link to the Decision Support Tool :-(
The NHS Ward Team have scored my father as Severe or High on most categories so the likelihood is that he will get Continuous Care, but we're waiting for the result. When we will find out I do not know, but I'll advise when I do.
Apart from sharing my experience, my questions are:
I do understand that part of this is about finances but it is all related to Continuous Care.
Hi, new to all this and perhaps I should have started months ago. AnyWho,...
My father has Severe Alzheimers and if I didn't know better he could pass for Suárez and is better with his elbows than most of the French team, both football & rugby.
He hasn't always been an officer, but he has always a gentleman; so he would be mortified if he knew what has gone on over the last few years.
In short he stopped driving about 3-4 years ago, started getting punchy (amongst other things) in the summer of 2013 and progressively got more agitated and aggressive in the last half of the year. My poor mother has born the brunt and I can't count the number of times I've received calls at all times of the day and had to rescue my mother from the bathroom, downstairs cloakroom or spare room (all fitted with locks). Fortunately I live a stones throw and I don't think the neighbours ever spotted me jogging in my pyjamas.
Subsequent to all this my father has been confined to an NHS hospital since January under the Mental Capacity (or lack of) Act and to be honest it's the best place for him; my mother has been given some well earned rest-bite (sorry for the pun!)
To get to the point, the NHS Hospital team (who have been brilliant btw) have recommended Continuous Care and filled out the Decision Support Tool document found on one of the government websites.
I am sorry, but as I have less than 10 posts, I can not include the link to the Decision Support Tool :-(
The NHS Ward Team have scored my father as Severe or High on most categories so the likelihood is that he will get Continuous Care, but we're waiting for the result. When we will find out I do not know, but I'll advise when I do.
Apart from sharing my experience, my questions are:
- What happens after (or if) Continuous Care (CC) is awarded
- Is CC reviewed again every 3-6 months?
- Does awarding CC affect my fathers Pension upon which my mother relies?
- My father has a Royal Air Force pension, is this affected as well?
I do understand that part of this is about finances but it is all related to Continuous Care.
Hi Kate,
sorry to hear about your mother, not easy is it!
Could I just ask a couple of questions, is CHC (Continuous Health Care) the same as CC (Continuous Care). I presume so but didn't know if there is funding due to physical health rather than just mental. That being said my father has lost a huge amount of weigh (he was never a very big chap anyway) and is under 50kgs (not sure what BMI, but I can probably work it out).
Also is DST that you refer to the Decision Support Tool?
Thanks & chin up
sorry to hear about your mother, not easy is it!
Could I just ask a couple of questions, is CHC (Continuous Health Care) the same as CC (Continuous Care). I presume so but didn't know if there is funding due to physical health rather than just mental. That being said my father has lost a huge amount of weigh (he was never a very big chap anyway) and is under 50kgs (not sure what BMI, but I can probably work it out).
Also is DST that you refer to the Decision Support Tool?
Thanks & chin up
My mother was awarded in CHC (after 6 years self-funding in a CH) in 2009 due to her care and nursing needs associated with Alzheimer's.
Because this is a NHS function, it is fully funded and my mother was able to retain her state pension and the widow's occupational pension from my deceased father's pension scheme.
Unfortunately, according to the NHS in 2013, she miraculously got better and they've taken her CHC eligibility away again, so those pension receipts over 4 years will now go towards paying for less than a year's CH fees (the proceeds from the family home having long gone).
There are indeed reviews, at 3 months initially I think as you suggest, and then supposedly annually. Again, I say supposedly - the CCG were quick enough to take away my mother's eligibility away using an assessment of August 2012, and haven't been seen since! - but I think this particular CCG is particularly poor at their adherence to rules etc and we're taking steps through the usual appeal channels etc to get things back on track hopefully.
So whilst it's good news your father has been awarded CHC, I suggest you keep on close eye on things to make sure your father receives what is recommended in the DST and continues to do so. If certain factions get a sniff of some personal financial assets, it's staggering how things can suddenly get "engineered" to suit their purpose, in my experience.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the information Cornishman, I'll be watchful and sorry about your mother, seems you've been in it for the long haul already.
Unfortunately, unless a wonder drug is unveiled in the near future, my father won't be getting better; he's lost most of his filters, most of the time and can't express himself in words; not even one!
Unfortunately, unless a wonder drug is unveiled in the near future, my father won't be getting better; he's lost most of his filters, most of the time and can't express himself in words; not even one!
NHS Decision Support Tool - Link
Please see the DST (Decision Support Tool) used to access Alzheimer's and Dementia patients for Continuous Health Care (CHC):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213139/Decision-Support-Tool-for-NHS-Continuing-Healthcare.pdf
It's a large document but stick with it,...it goes quicker than you think.
Please see the DST (Decision Support Tool) used to access Alzheimer's and Dementia patients for Continuous Health Care (CHC):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213139/Decision-Support-Tool-for-NHS-Continuing-Healthcare.pdf
It's a large document but stick with it,...it goes quicker than you think.
Yes - that's the one that's used nationally. The document that needs to be read in parallel, equally long-winded but written in a reasonably understandable manner, is the NHS Framework Document for Continuous Healthcare and a Funded Healthcare - just Google it.
The overriding principle with the DST is that it should be written honestly and objectively. Unfortunately, if you are dealing with a CCG or perhaps Local Authority Social Services that are hellbent on saving money (even though finances should have nothing to do with it), then you can probably see how easy it would be to adjust markings to downplay someone's condition and therefore their needs.
For example, my mother clamps her mouth shut on first presentation of food. The assessor was adamant that was her "communicating", even though she can neither speak nor comprehend anything and doesn't really know me for example. So that's what was written in the DST. And the same assessor refused to mention this under "behaviour", because it was already recognised under "communication". You couldn't make this stuff up - oh hang on...that's exactly what they do!!!! My mother is totally immobile, but apparently has the "wrong sort of immobility" to warrant a severe marking - I could give examples of this sort of nonsense against almost every domain.
I think it's generally accepted that at least two Severe markings are sufficient to be deemed eligible for CHC, so it sounds like you're well on the way, so here's hoping it all goes through ok, as seems likely from what you've said.
Best wishes and good luck
No, there's a different NHS Decision Support Tool for Wales, Cornishman.
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/866/opendoc/180025
The battle of CHC
Hi All!
Just wanted to say that I've just finished a long and extremely stressful battle with my local authority in order to get CHC for my mum. She has finally been awarded CHC and at long lost justice has been done!!!! If anyone is struggling to get this for their loved one, all I can advise is to document everything yourself - ie phone calls, conversations with nurses and 'professionals' etc as my experience is that they do NOT follow procedure. In case of an appeal, you then have all your ammunition! I've never witnessed such lack of knowledge and disorganisation - and I was completely left in the dark regarding what stage my mother's case was at. Recommendations were changed without my being informed - and the list of poor practice is endless. Please don't give up if you're trying to get this funding. It has taken me nine months. Good Luck!
Hi All!
Just wanted to say that I've just finished a long and extremely stressful battle with my local authority in order to get CHC for my mum. She has finally been awarded CHC and at long lost justice has been done!!!! If anyone is struggling to get this for their loved one, all I can advise is to document everything yourself - ie phone calls, conversations with nurses and 'professionals' etc as my experience is that they do NOT follow procedure. In case of an appeal, you then have all your ammunition! I've never witnessed such lack of knowledge and disorganisation - and I was completely left in the dark regarding what stage my mother's case was at. Recommendations were changed without my being informed - and the list of poor practice is endless. Please don't give up if you're trying to get this funding. It has taken me nine months. Good Luck!
