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Confused: the council give mum money but they take some back?

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Hello TP,
So, mum - 82 with FTD - is being cared for at home with carers x 3 per day.
The council have just awarded her some money (she is just under the lower threshold) towards her care which I will use to pay the carers and other care expenses. So far so good.
Have now received a letter from the council to say that mum now needs to contribute towards the cost of her community care services and they are asking me to set up a direct debit to pay most of it back!
I was feeling so relieved that she was now going to receive some help but now they are asking for most of it back! This can't be right can it? Why bother awarding her any money in the first place and why all this paperwork?
I already set up a new bank account for mum to have this money put into and I have to keep all the accounts etc and sent them in every 3 months to prove where the money goes.
I don't understand why they can't award one sum of money with one set of banking... or it it just me?
Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cazzita x
 

DesperateofDevon

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
2,742
Hello TP,
So, mum - 82 with FTD - is being cared for at home with carers x 3 per day.
The council have just awarded her some money (she is just under the lower threshold) towards her care which I will use to pay the carers and other care expenses. So far so good.
Have now received a letter from the council to say that mum now needs to contribute towards the cost of her community care services and they are asking me to set up a direct debit to pay most of it back!
I was feeling so relieved that she was now going to receive some help but now they are asking for most of it back! This can't be right can it? Why bother awarding her any money in the first place and why all this paperwork?
I already set up a new bank account for mum to have this money put into and I have to keep all the accounts etc and sent them in every 3 months to prove where the money goes.
I don't understand why they can't award one sum of money with one set of banking... or it it just me?
Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cazzita x
Council or social services ?
Ring & ask them. Firstly a dementia diagnosis if sole occupant means no council tax to pay. Attendance allowance is also entitled.
I find that the teams at the council offices are really helpful at explaining it all.
Not much help I know but it’s what I did.
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,764
Salford
If you're right and she's under the power limit (about £13.5k) then she shouldn't be paying, but if she's under the top limit of £23k then there's a "tariff income" so she pays part of the cost.
If you're sure she's under the lower threshold I'd definitely question it, but if she's in the middle then it might be right.
As far as I know every £250 you have between the two figures count as £1 per week as income, so if you're £5k over the lower limit they would class that as £20 per week income if I've fondly sums right.
What happens in the "twilight zone" when monthly pensions and benefits push you over the limit but living costs mean you go back under it like a yo-yo I don't know.
K
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Thanks so much, it's all a bit mad isn't it? I will call the council financial assessment team and get them to explain as it doesn't make sense. Mum is definitely just under the lower threshold now and has spent an absolute fortune on care. They don't want to give much back do they?
Will update when I get some information.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,373
My Mum was under the lower threshold limit and still had to contribute towards her care - it varies from council to council- some ask for a contribution and some don't. Mum had to pay around £60 a month towards her care visits, which was paid out of her benefits/income.

The simple way to look at it is that the council calculate how much your Mum's care costs will be - say as an example £70 weekly. They pay that directly to you to cover the cost of the care.

They have then calculated how much your Mum can afford to contribute herself towards the £70 cost, say £30.

The amount that your Mum has to contribute herself should not get paid back to the council out of the £70 paid to you - it should come out of her other funds.
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Thanks @Louise7, that does make sense but I still think they go the long way round this and need to keep it simpler, like just give her less money and that's it.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,373
Nothing's simple when dealing with council financial matters. They have numerous different financial teams, budgets, and accounts so what seems to be a silly way of dealing with things to most will make perfect sense within the council's financial accounting system.
 

witts1973

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
731
Leamington Spa
I have asked about this on the forums before,I think people feel like I did too that at the lower limit the care is free and as you say often a lot has been spent on care by that time,but I did think to myself the LA wouldn't want to be paying for all of the care as without those monthly care company bills to now pay the person with dementia would have funds now growing in their bank account and the LA would be after that as the funds would now be over the lower limit again.
So it seems that you are paying for your care at £13,250,is there anything written in statute or can each LA make it up as they go along and take what they like/want/need?
Unfortunately mum has to pay for 4 visits with 2 carers at each call,life can change so quickly,I'm just so pleased that she doesn't get upset or frustrated at the situation as she's obliviuos to her illness,she's bed bound and hasn't been able to walk since April 2017 but last night when I said I was going to clean the kitchen floor she said"Don't worry son,I will get up and do that for you"I thought bless her,that's my typical kind mum,a lot of people say it's the carers that can go through hell and they take the burden but that's ok as long as mum doesn't feel unhappy.
 
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Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,373
is there anything written in statute or can each LA make it up as they go along and take what they like/want/need?
It's quite common to see people posting that care costs at home are free if under the lower threshold limit but that's not necessarily the case.

I think it's in the Care Act 2014 - Local authorities can set their own charging policies but costs for care must be reasonable and there is a Minimum Income Guarantee (MIG) to ensure that individuals are left with a set amount of money to live on. Local Authority charging policies should be on their website or available on request.

This fact sheet explains about care at home costs (pages 9 - 10): https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites...ng-for-care-and-support-in-england-190521.pdf
 

witts1973

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
731
Leamington Spa
It's quite common to see people posting that care costs at home are free if under the lower threshold limit but that's not necessarily the case.

I think it's in the Care Act 2014 - Local authorities can set their own charging policies but costs for care must be reasonable and there is a Minimum Income Guarantee (MIG) to ensure that individuals are left with a set amount of money to live on. Local Authority charging policies should be on their website or available on request.

This fact sheet explains about care at home costs (pages 9 - 10): https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites...ng-for-care-and-support-in-england-190521.pdf
Thanks,well at least mum will be a bit better off than she is at the moment having to pay for all of her care when she gets to the lower limit she may have enough free cash to stretch to a small box of chocolates :)
 

DesperateofDevon

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
2,742
Thanks,well at least mum will be a bit better off than she is at the moment having to pay for all of her care when she gets to the lower limit she may have enough free cash to stretch to a small box of chocolates :)
Actually my Mums paying for some of her care but social services contribute towards it, we had a financial assessment done & needs assessment. Mums in her own home - she doesn’t want to go into care home & she is over ( just!) the higher threshold
Really have no idea how it all works as each time the social worker does an assessment the goal posts move- so far inMums favour!
 

witts1973

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
731
Leamington Spa
Actually my Mums paying for some of her care but social services contribute towards it, we had a financial assessment done & needs assessment. Mums in her own home - she doesn’t want to go into care home & she is over ( just!) the higher threshold
Really have no idea how it all works as each time the social worker does an assessment the goal posts move- so far inMums favour!
Thanks we will have to wait and see what happens
 

witts1973

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
731
Leamington Spa
Hello TP,
So, mum - 82 with FTD - is being cared for at home with carers x 3 per day.
The council have just awarded her some money (she is just under the lower threshold) towards her care which I will use to pay the carers and other care expenses. So far so good.
Have now received a letter from the council to say that mum now needs to contribute towards the cost of her community care services and they are asking me to set up a direct debit to pay most of it back!
I was feeling so relieved that she was now going to receive some help but now they are asking for most of it back! This can't be right can it? Why bother awarding her any money in the first place and why all this paperwork?
I already set up a new bank account for mum to have this money put into and I have to keep all the accounts etc and sent them in every 3 months to prove where the money goes.
I don't understand why they can't award one sum of money with one set of banking... or it it just me?
Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cazzita x
Hi I don't know how any of this works,but did you tell them about any regular expense for any medical supplies,wipes,bed pads etc so your mum can keep that money to buy such items when they work out her contributions towards care,I'm sorry if I haven't made myself very clear
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Hi I don't know how any of this works,but did you tell them about any regular expense for any medical supplies,wipes,bed pads etc so your mum can keep that money to buy such items when they work out her contributions towards care,I'm sorry if I haven't made myself very clear
Hi there, you have made yourself clear no worries, and yes, I did tell them about the Tena pants etc etc but they said they didn't take any outgoings into consideration except the council tax!! Incredible really :(
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Actually my Mums paying for some of her care but social services contribute towards it, we had a financial assessment done & needs assessment. Mums in her own home - she doesn’t want to go into care home & she is over ( just!) the higher threshold
Really have no idea how it all works as each time the social worker does an assessment the goal posts move- so far inMums favour!
That's good to hear!
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
It's quite common to see people posting that care costs at home are free if under the lower threshold limit but that's not necessarily the case.

I think it's in the Care Act 2014 - Local authorities can set their own charging policies but costs for care must be reasonable and there is a Minimum Income Guarantee (MIG) to ensure that individuals are left with a set amount of money to live on. Local Authority charging policies should be on their website or available on request.

This fact sheet explains about care at home costs (pages 9 - 10): https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites...ng-for-care-and-support-in-england-190521.pdf
Thank you Louise x
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
Nothing's simple when dealing with council financial matters. They have numerous different financial teams, budgets, and accounts so what seems to be a silly way of dealing with things to most will make perfect sense within the council's financial accounting system.
You are not kidding! They clearly love paperwork and want us to do it too!
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
591
he caseworker has contacted the financial assessment team (FAT!) and asked for some figures as she thinks mum pays too much too. I have also emailed them and told them how I feel so we will see...