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Confused: the council give mum money but they take some back?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Cazzita, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    10,531
    Female
    South coast
    If you get the SMI disregard the Coucil Tax is calculated as if that person were not living there.
    So, if the person with dementia is living alone the property will be taxed as if it were empty.
    If one other person is living with them then it is taxed as a sole occupant
    If there is more than one adult then it is taxed at the full amount.

    On top of this, there may be other reasons for reduced Council Tax - students, for example are disregarded and I believe carers (not a spouse) are too. There may also be tax reductions due to low income.

    Its a bit of a minefield.
     
  2. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    1,141
    #42 DesperateofDevon, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2019
    Hope that helped it was too long to type out
    Xx
     

    Attached Files:

  3. AliceA

    AliceA Registered User

    May 27, 2016
    2,417
    Dear DD.
    Councils seem to have different criteria and rules.
    This is the needs assessment, but we never had an indicative cost perhaps because it does not mean much. The cost would depend on where one hires the help.
    The financial assessment is different this is a real maze. It is simpler if there is one person owning one house.
    It is complicated when there are two, one needs to protect whoever is 'last man standing'. Who may require a roof over their head etc.
    Because of health issues it could be either, not necessarily the one with the more obvious needs, such as my husband.
    If it were one, income, savings and eventually any property could mean self funding, unless renting.
    With two it often means the first is not selfunding although the last man standing is likely to be.
    With older women who were not career oriented there were few pensions so their work revolved around the man's work. This is now the problem I and many in their eighties are facing, the goal posts are moved when the historical playing field cannot be.
    If I were to marry now, the way we decided to earn a family living and the proportions of home contributions would be different. Perhaps the sureness of our love would mean we did not need to publicly commit. Society expected and was geared to this in the 1950s. The tax system was geared to the male being the provider.

    The financial assessment is something else, do not go there if you can self fund. We cannot because the savings would run out, carehomes are asking for a guarantee of funds for two to three years.
    We need the council to agree to step in while I need a home. I gather the respite assessment takes nearly all the income, care at home allows the possibility of a certain sum beng waived for home responsibilities. It seems based on a wing and a prayer rather than a right. I could be wrong but it is difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff in getting information.
    Nothing is cohesive, each department is separate from the next. The assessor had no knowledge of finance. Finance has no knowledge of the actual situation just names and facts. OT came to visit but the right equipment does not fit a home situation. It is complicated. I hope you sort your Mums situation out.
     
  4. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    Yes they did. They have mum's bank account details so no doubt looking at it :(
     
  5. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    Thanks Helly, I will try to be mindful about record keeping. I have raised such a commotion about the assessment that the financial manager has promised a new assessment - fingers crossed it works in mum's favour and they at least consider outgoings too! :)
     
  6. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    That's a blessing then but why oh why do the goalposts keep moving! This has GOT to change and soon, it's absolutely bloomin' crazy!
     
  7. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    1,141
    It would be lovely to have a simple system that provided funding from one body. As it is at the moment for Mum it’s either SS or the NHS who fund initial help, then I have no idea what happens.
    It’s too complicated !
    Different funding to different agencies all with different management teams!
    Add to that protected income, AA, pensions & maximum/ minimum savings!
    You need a degree almost specialising in how this system works to even chip away at getting help.
    What the CMHT add to the pot is yet to be seen! Roll on Wednesday.....
     
  8. AliceA

    AliceA Registered User

    May 27, 2016
    2,417
    Adult social services ASS!
    This does not do the individuals justice they are trying so hard, the system they are dealing with makes life hard on them too.
     
  9. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    1,141
    I’m still giggling!
     
  10. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    710
    Male
    Leamington Spa
    Hi I was speaking to my mothers carer this morning who lives with her ill father that himself has care visits,out of the blue this morning she said to me if you're struggling make sure that you tell them about anything your having to buy for your mum due to her illness,continence products,creams,extra bedding etc as that's what she had done herself and it was taken off the bill,I didn't have long to speak to her as she was just about to leave but I'm seeing her on Monday and willl ask further about the mechanics of how that works as I'm sure it's not just taken off the bill after a phone call,I have heard other people say that on here so I know you can do it,I bet it's something they don't like to encourage though,when it was first mentioned to me on here somebody said that you can ringfence that as money that you are allowed to keep when they do the financial assessment as it needs to be spent on important things to promote health,at the moment mum is above the limits were they pay anything but I will start keeping receipts at some time in a little box for stuff like that,and I will make those purchases separately from food shops,so it's just that stuff on the receipt.
    I thought this might offer a little hope for you.Have a nice weekend
     
  11. Moggymad

    Moggymad Registered User

    May 12, 2017
    383
    Female
    That's interesting @witts1973. I also queried the allowance as at the time we were spending an awful lot on pullups & I also mentioned mums oedema in her legs which meant special loose top socks & footwear but still our council didn't allow for that & said it would have to come out of the savings she had that were supposed to be protected. Perhaps it depends on each council what they will take into account, I don't know.
     
  12. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    710
    Male
    Leamington Spa
    I will have to get the proper details when I see her,yes perhaps it's not something that they all do,I hope I haven't raised anyones hopes if it turns out not to be the case
     
  13. AliceA

    AliceA Registered User

    May 27, 2016
    2,417
    Most banks offer a second current account. I have two the general and the second. This second one, also in joint names. I am using for expenses such as you suggest.
    I have loaded a cashed isa into it, just to keep it visible. I have an account book and I am listing costs in that. Being joint I am not keeping more than that.
    Should I go down the Direct Payment route I would get it paid into the second account.
    I think there is some confusion as it depends whether one is dealing with a parent or a spouse.
    Whether it is a joint account or whether one is doing it for another.
    We really need a clear guide.
     
  14. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    Thanks so much for this! I have kept receipts for loads of things that mum has needed along the way. I was asked today to give a list of monthly outgoings today by the finance team yet 2 weeks ago they completely ignored the outgoings! Thanks again x
     
  15. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    Agreed. Yet it is anything but x
     
  16. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    Haha, Financial Assessment Team = FAT Adult Social Services = ASS! Made me chuckle amongst this madness! :)
     
  17. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    710
    Male
    Leamington Spa
    Hi that's good,did they mention anything in particular that can be included in the outgoings,it makes you wonder if some people in those positions aren't aware of the rules
     
  18. AliceA

    AliceA Registered User

    May 27, 2016
    2,417
    I was advised to make a list of anything illness related including extra bedding and clothes due to incontinence etc. This can be taken out of savings, or against income. Some councils are more generous than others!
    I also tick the VAT exemption box when I order on line.
    This does not appear if the items could be used in general by others members living in the home.
    This again seems simpler if it is a individual person rather than one of a couple.
    The goverment has a leaflet about fairer funding as a guideline to councils, it seems it is advisory rather than statutory.
     
  19. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    Is >>>this<<< the one?
     
  20. Cazzita

    Cazzita Registered User

    May 12, 2018
    491
    I have discovered what the problem is - the council have assessed mum for the temporary respite care she had!!!! I cannot believe that all this paperwork has gone into this - just temporary care! So, the care manager has now contacted them again to do a financial assessment for long term care - dementia is not short term now is it? It's frustrating and maddening! The council are quite curt in their emails too...
    So let's see what happens next.
    So, for short term care funding, they don't take outgoings into consideration but for long term they do. Apparently.
     

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