Confused over categories of dementia care homes

grove

Registered User
Aug 24, 2010
7,723
North Yorkshire
Hello Jancis/Hope for You

Dear Jancis , Just reading your "Posts " & sorry :( you are still not found a suitable Home for your reltive.It must be a worry for you , have heard from the Manager ( where i used to work ) that Charity Homes are v good( we have one in Town run by the Church & cos its new it has 3 sections to look after Residents who have different types/ needs ).
Am sending postive vibes that you find some where soon :)

Take care Love Grove x x x
 

Christin

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
5,038
Somerset
Hello Jancis, I agree it is confusing and in our county we have the added category of Specialised Residential Care.

FIL has been taken into a NH, it describes itself as care with nursing and I think that fits. Not all the residents are confined to chairs or beds, certainly my FIL and many others are moving about quite freely in their area. There are activities morning, afternoon and evening. They are varied and some might not be appropriate for him but many are. We feel we have found the right environment for him, he is safe, secure, well looked after and there are trained nurses on duty all the time. We really want him to stay where he is.

I would say just keep looking, I think the edges are blurred and perhaps they sometimes overlap.
 

sistermillicent

Registered User
Jan 30, 2009
2,949
Oh Jancis, I can hear your frustration, and have been there myself when looking for residential care for mums respite, no one would tell us ANYTHING not even provide a list of homes or the fact that there were different ones. In the end we had a very long chat with a nurse in a B*pa home that we looked round and she was extremely helpful and told us we needed nursing for mum, not residential. She turned out to be right.

I have a feeling that general nursing homes with dementia may well be more full of the bed bound than anywhere else, whether or not they have dementia because their physical needs will be what primarily puts them in there. I think the kindness of the staff matters more than the other residents, and more than the decor. You can get people who are jobsworths and people who are prepared to go that extra mile, I would be looking for that.

I hate the fact that you are so upset about this, but quite understand why, and you have had such a difficult time with your relative too, he is so lucky to have you fighting his corner.

Pippa xx
 

Paulina

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
12
Northamptonshire
Okay I am going to post what I have found in the hope that it is of some use to some of you.
Care homes, whether DE (dementia) or not are either residential care homes or nursing homes. Nursing homes will have qualified nurses on duty at all times. Residential care homes do not.
Either types of homes can have places for Dementia residents. If you want a care home that is mostly caring for Dementia residents have a look at the number of places that it is allowed to provide for DE compared to total number of residents. for example at the home that my mum is at which is a residential care home, there is a total of 44 places, 8 of which can be DE. Some homes place an emphasis on dementia residents and they could have 22 places say with 22 places available for DE. So this could be a residential home but more for dementia residents.
I have found that nursing homes do have more advanced stage dementia residents and are therefore just not suitable for mid stage dementia where there just wouldn't be the stimulation. As my mum would say "why are they all just sitting around sleeping?!"
Have a look at the Care Quality Commission website and do a search for what you are looking for in the area you are looking at and read the reports, they give the number of places.
I hope this is of some help!
Pauline
 

Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
66
Hampshire
Hi Christin,
Thank you for posting, your FIL's home sounds very good - you are right the edges are blurred, I can understand the reasons why, but it doesn't help. I think I am clued up in certain respects having previously had to live with and help my mother with my father in his years of slow decline with arthritis and dementia, but I have floundered regarding nursing homes for my uncle because of the confusing terminology and different applications of categories.

Hi Pippa,
with regard to 'General Nursing with Dementia homes' - we have been advised by an independent source that they may be the middle ground between EMI Nursing Homes and EMI Residential Homes. 'EMI' is still very much a key aspect of vocabulary used. Maybe it was because my uncle was 'sectioned' - and so underlying everything, he is now labelled as a 'mental case' (wrapped up in politically correct language as 'mentally infirm')? And of course he is elderly so the descriptor fits.

Thank you Paulina,
Your analysis does make sense. I have a problem as I don't know where uncle sits in terms of his dementia stage. 'Early onset' has been quoted. He is an enigma as far as the professionals are concerned. I don't find the Care Quality Commission website very helpful in my case. Your advice on number of dementia places is very helpful, thank you for this.

Hi too to Middy, Necion, Sal, Grove - it is certainly a maze out there. Oh and Sylvia too - your post was quite a revelation that Dhiren is in a home that is not registered for dementia. You are very lucky to have freedom of choice.
 

scatterbrain

Registered User
Jan 10, 2008
25
Berkshire
moving from one care home to another

Hi,

My Mum has been in a residential care home for 3 years or so but recently became unwell and had to be admitted to hospital. She got better, but could no longer walk. Because of that, she could not return to the Care Home (because they are not registered as Nursing and do not have the staff or equipment required to cope with nursing care) so I was advised to move her to a Nursing Home. I was fortunate - there is a very good one not far from where I live. Mum is there now and has settled in well. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the care she is receiving on the dementia side seems far better than in the previous place, although she was in the "severe dementia" unit there.

It has really opened my eyes to the variety of types and standards of care available - and to the fact that we can only do our best. Mum was happy in the last place, and they looked after her pretty well. I had no complaints and nor did she. Where she is now is wonderful, but it would not have been appropriate 3 years ago. They do have some residents who are very mobile and very alert; they have some who are bedridden and some who sleep most of the time. Their needs are many and various!

I used www.carehome.co.uk for a lot of my research but I think it's very useful to look at the official inspection reports too. I eliminated some places based on the reports and in some cases later on I heard things that confirmed that it was the right decision. Both times, when I visited the home Mum ended up in I knew it was right for her straight away - but I visited some others too so I had some basis for comparison just in case.

The manager where Mum is now visited her in hospital to assess her before agreeing to take her: I don't know if that is something they would do in your area.

I hope that some of this is useful and I wish you peace of mind in choosing a home.
God bless,
Scatterbrain
 

Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
66
Hampshire
Dear Scatterbrain,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge - your help is very much appreciated.

You are very fortunate in some respects that your mum is settled after being moved twice, though of course you are unfortunate to have had the anxiety and sadness of having to deal with all of this.

I accept that my situation is very unusual. Having spent months and months on research I still am no further forward. But will keep posting in the hope that someone has some "inside knowledge of the system" I am fighting.

God bless, Jancis
 
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jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Jancis, forgive me, but I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this research. From your past posts you (and your family) have not been allowed to have input into where your uncle lives. Is that not correct? So are you thinking that he has been placed into a more restrictive environment than is appropriate? And that if that is the case, (and it would be unfortunate if that is the case) you can perhaps use that as leverage to get more input? Or perhaps force his attorney (or is it a deputy?) to move him accordingly?

Just to check - is he under any form of section? And does he receive any form of regular medication?

Incidentally I think scatterbrain is correct: I've never come across a care or nursing home that didn't insist on doing some form of evaluation before accepting a person. My mother's home even reevaluated her after each hospital stay.
 

Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
66
Hampshire
Jancis, forgive me, but I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this research. From your past posts you (and your family) have not been allowed to have input into where your uncle lives. Is that not correct? So are you thinking that he has been placed into a more restrictive environment than is appropriate? And that if that is the case, (and it would be unfortunate if that is the case) you can perhaps use that as leverage to get more input? Or perhaps force his attorney (or is it a deputy?) to move him accordingly?

Just to check - is he under any form of section? And does he receive any form of regular medication?

Incidentally I think scatterbrain is correct: I've never come across a care or nursing home that didn't insist on doing some form of evaluation before accepting a person. My mother's home even reevaluated her after each hospital stay.
Hi Jennifer, thanks for your concern. You are correct. We (my family) have tried everything we can to find alternative accommodation for my uncle. He is unhappy too and we have not had a fair hearing as yet but we are still fighting. Having tried many things I am now trying to unravel the mysteries of how care homes are assessed and defined by the authorities. I attempted to ask a simple question at the beginning of this thread. I am only trying to find out if I've missed something. Perhaps I wasting my time? But who knows it might help me or someone else who has had a problem with SS.
 

ianpm

Registered User
Dec 11, 2011
3
warrington
Residential and Nursing

There are several categories General Residential
General Nursing
EMI Residential
EMI Nursing

EMI stands for Elderly Mentally Ill which commonly means Dementia.

Residential homes be they General or EMI do not require there to be a Nurse on Duty. Residents are those who can quite often do some things for themselves possibly - feeding themselves or dressing themselves or can sometimes find there way to the toilet.
Residents are often classed as "pleasantly confused" i.e they do not exhibit Challenging Behaviour.

Whereas Nursing Homes be they General or EMI require them to have a nurse on duty 24/7. These residents require input by a nurse may have a complicated drug regime, may have pressure sores or have complicated medical histories. EMI there may be a level of aggression.

I hope this clarify's one or two points.

Regards

IGPM