Confused over categories of dementia care homes

[Jancis]

Hi,
Can anyone help me understand the official categories given to the registration of dementia care homes - I thought I understood but am now getting confused by all the conflicting information and terms used on different advice websites.

As far as my understanding goes there are homes that specialise in dementia care but do not employ nurses. These are called Residential EMI care homes?

Then there are homes that specialise in dementia care that also offer professional nursing. These are called Residential EMI Nursing care homes?

Is there also a third category: General nursing homes with specialist dementia care?

Can anyone assist with describing the differences that can be observed in the three categories? I realise that all homes vary but I am seeking to understand the generic differences.

All help would be gratefully received.
Jancis

 

[Sandy]

Hi Jancis,

There are two 'flavours' when is comes to nursing: with nursing and without nursing.

Similarly, with regards to dementia places: with dementia places and without dementia places.

So that makes 2 x 2 = 4 options:

Hope that helps,

 

[Jancis]

Thanks for your reply Sandy. I am still confused, however.
Is there a fact sheet about this?

 

[Sandy]

Then there are homes that specialise in dementia care that also offer professional nursing. These are called Residential EMI Nursing care homes?

Is there also a third category: General nursing homes with specialist dementia care?

My understanding, such as it is, is that these two statements are describing the same thing. A home is registered to provide nursing care if it has qualified nurses (at least one) on duty 24/7. A home is qualified to offer places for people with dementia if it can show the CQC that it can meet the needs of those people.

See also:

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?t=22197&highlight=registration

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?t=25499&highlight=registration

You could always ring the CQC for further clarification - things might have changed recently.

 

[middy]

Hi Jancis I came across this problem myself today. Got a phonecall this morning re Mother passing panel for Continuing health care
The CPN dropped by a list of care homes to contact, works out several on the list were not appropriate as they only do residential EMI rather than nursing EMI.Could have saved myself a few phonecalls.

 

[Jancis]

Hi Jancis I came across this problem myself today. Got a phonecall this morning re Mother passing panel for Continuing health care
The CPN dropped by a list of care homes to contact, works out several on the list were not appropriate as they only do residential EMI rather than nursing EMI.Could have saved myself a few phonecalls.

Hi Middy,
I know exactly what you mean, not only did I waste time, in my ignorance, on phone calls but I visited homes not realising that they would not be deemed suitable. There is something very wrong with the system here and I haven't got to the bottom of it yet.

 

[grove]

Hi Jancis , Was not sure if to reply or not/am not an "Expert" & do not want to you even more ! !
However have worked for a Small Chain of Homes ( am Kitchen Staff ) all 3 .They are :

1) N Home , For frail/ Dementia ( Staffed by Nurse's & Care Staff )

2) Residential C Home , For mixed Dementia/ not all Residents tho
( No Nursing Staff tho ) Care Staff trained in Dementia Care

3) N Home EMI , For all Dementia & Altz , ( Nurseing Staff/ Care Staff)

Hope that helps & it does not make you make you ! !


Do hope you find a suitable Home

Best Wishes Love Grove x x x

 

[middy]

Hi again Jancis

I was lucky that The homes mentioned to me over the telephone re not doing nursing EMI. Seems a couple in our area are changing from nursing to residential ( must be where the money is heading)So didn't have any wasted journeys for that reason.
Though I did do a mad rush out to a home, was not on my list for visiting as it was miles out in the sticks, but had been given information from a partner home re an available bed only to find that it was already gone.rolleyes:

 

[Jancis]

Hi Jancis , Was not sure if to reply or not/am not an "Expert" & do not want to you even more ! !
However have worked for a Small Chain of Homes ( am Kitchen Staff ) all 3 .They are :

1) N Home , For frail/ Dementia ( Staffed by Nurse's & Care Staff )

2) Residential C Home , For mixed Dementia/ not all Residents tho
( No Nursing Staff tho ) Care Staff trained in Dementia Care

3) N Home EMI , For all Dementia & Altz , ( Nurseing Staff/ Care Staff)

Hope that helps & it does not make you make you ! !


Do hope you find a suitable Home

Best Wishes Love Grove x x x

Hi Grove,
I appreciate your help, thank you. It's good to get insight from someone who has experienced life (as an employee) in different types of homes. I rate you as an expert because you have this experience.

Best wishes
Jancis x

 

[Necion]

Hi Jancis, i'm no help at all as regards advice on your question I'm afraid!
Just saying hello, and I wish you well in your search for a suitable care home.
Take care, Love, Necion. xx

 

[Jancis]

Thank you Necion for your interest and concern,
I don't think anyone knows the answer to my question which is interesting.

 

[Necion]

Jancis, I've been having a look around the net - (I'm a newbee regarding care home info too, although thankfully not needed yet), and I must admit it's quite a maze to me too.
I think for a definative description, Sandy's 'block' type illustration is what's speaking best to me, but I'm seeing some CHs which are not too forthcoming with the particular category they fit into!! Maybe me just being unfamiliar with the system!!
I wonder if different parts of the country use different descriptions...maybe use their own terminology if it dosen't have to be standardised? Short answer..I'm still no help! sorry.

Will be interested to know how you get on, I assume it's for your uncle?
Take care, Love, Necion. xx

 

[Jancis]

Hi Necion,
I think you may be right regarding different counties having their own 'care home status descriptions'. I think this is a really big issue that needs to be addressed to avoid further confusion for many carers. I hope the moderators and AZ can help with this?

 

[Jancis]

Still perplexed

Sorry to be a pain but I am still perplexed about my question and wondered if there was anyone new logging on that might be able to help.

Has anyone knowledge of a General Nursing Home that also provides specialist dementia care.

I am not referring to an EMI Nursing Home.

Thanks, Jancis

 

[Grannie G]

Jancis I think it`s a bit like splitting hairs.

A home for people with dementia who need nursing care will be just that. . The title is immaterial as long as it`s registered for dementia and provides nursing care.

The name EMI is no longer encouraged but still used. It`s a bit like the way people used to talk about `old money` and convert back, when decimalization was introduced.
It will fade out eventually.

 

[Jancis]

Thanks Sylvia, let me explain more...

My relative is physically quite well but his mental illness (caused by dementia) has been labelled as 'challenging' - due to past breakdown - he is stable now. SS are insisting he remains in a home classified as an EMI Nursing Home as opposed to an EMI Residential Home. These different classifications make it hard for families when they first set out to find a home for their relative who has been diagnosed with dementia. EMI (elderly mentally infirm) is still the buzzword and so they look for EMI care. I wasted hours and days visiting 'EMI' Residential Homes only to be told they were not suitable as my relative's care needs were classified as "EMI Nursing".

My relative has never been a threat to anyone but himself. He has never displayed anti-social behavior either, other than wishing to lie on his bed all day. This, in my humble opinion is partly because he cannot relate to the environment and the other residents.

My stumbling block? From my research it would appear that many EMI Nursing homes in this country are depressing and institutionalised. Whereas I have found that there are many more EMI Residential homes that are uplifting and homely. The sad fact of life is the state of health of the residents. In EMI Residential homes the residents are more likely to be at the stage when they are able to interact and join in activities etc. In the EMI Nursing homes there are more at the late stages of dementia and are confined to chair/bed- terrible for my relative who is in total denial of his illness.

Then I found out about the potential third category "General (not EMI) nursing with dementia".

So I thought I would do my own research on TP to see if anyone had specific knowledge of General Nursing Homes with dementia, as maybe, if these homes do exist, there might be one that is more ideal for my relative - or is this a pipe dream?

 

[Grannie G]

Well I think your research might be better in your relative`s area Jancis than on TP because so many have different standards and different needs, and concentrating on classification can be even more confusing.

My husband is in a residential care home for the elderly. That`s what it says on the door. He has dementia but the home isn`t registered for dementia. I have been promised that he will be able to stay there until he dies, and his needs will be met. One of the owners is a registered nurse who would be able to provide nursing care. He is very contented in this home and I am satisfied he is getting good care.
The front appearance of the home is awful and if it hadn`t been recommended I wouldn`t have gone through the front door.

It is impossible for anyone to answer your question on TP Jancis. All you can do is visit homes in your relative`s area and see what is avaliable.

 

[Jancis]

That is a depressing thought.
I might as well leave it there then.

 

[Jancis]

No, having just shut down computer to go to bed, I am really upset so am back online, I can't leave it there. This is a genuine problem, I've done all the research I can possibly do in my relative's area and have reached the end of my tether with wooly descriptions about what people need. This is a big general issue, it's about communication and understanding and ensuring caring relatives don't waste hundreds of hours fighting a system they don't understand. I don't expect anyone on TP to help but I just wanted to see if there might be someone.

 

[sallyc]

Hi Jancis. My Grandads Care home is a specialist dementia home. It's not called EMI, as that term is often not used anymore. It has a Nursing unit on the ground floor, and a Residential unit upstairs. Both are secure for the residents, and they only take dementia patients. Is this the kind of thing you were thinking of? I think, on Sandy's grid, it would tick both boxes under dementia.