Completing a Lasting Power of Attorney for my Dad

[GaryTheSnail]

Hi there guys! I am very glad I have discovered the forum. My family is very small, just dad, mum and myself, as the only child I have a lot on my plate to navigate. Dad is at a very early stage of dementia.

My question is regarding an LPA. Dad wants to set thee up ASAP while he is compos mentis. I had a careful look at the LPA forms and understand there is a specific order that various parties need to sign it in, that's fine. Once the LPA is registered, it is valid, although I understand registration may take some time.

What we are all confused about is this. Does dad expressly have to state any and all of his wishes in terms of how he wants his health or finances managed once he has lost capacity or will my mum and I (acting as attorneys for dad), have the widest possible powers if the wishes field is left blank?

Having done some reading, it is possible that if something is stipulated which the Office of the Public Guardian disagrees with, then they will not register the LPA, send it back to you, rendering it null and void. That's why we are a bit worried about stipulating lots of stuff, we'd rather dad tell us what he wants, we make a note of it and act in his best interests when the time comes.

If somebody here has some LPA knowledge, it would be good to know!

Many thanks,

Gary

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @GaryTheSnail and welcome to Dementia Support Forum. While there is space for both instructions and wishes, my view is that there is really no need for either of these. My wife did specify something which might possibly have limited what I could do as her Attorney. It didn't as things turned out but I would suggest avoiding any instructions that would limit what the Attorney might do. Attorneys have to act in the Donor's best interests, of course, but what they are cannot always be known in advance. Anything that gets in the way of financial management or potentially limits care options will not be helpful. If more than one Attorney is appointed the most flexible (and desirable) way of doing this is "jointly and severally".

I hope this helps but please come back if you have any more questions.

 

[Kevinl]

Can't help much but all I can say is get it done, should anything go "wrong" life without one (for you) can be a nightmare, only child or not. I looked after my mum then up until recently my wife, dealing with my mum's stuff without an LPA was hard.
Dealing with my wife's paperwork, medical appointments and the like without an LPA was comparitively easy.
Just do it, your local Alzheimer's Society or Citizens Advice may well be able to offer you help for free.
K

 

[Bod]

Agree, the less specific the easier to do what is needed.

Bod

 

[GaryTheSnail]

Dear both, thank you very much, I didn't think people would be on here on Christmas days of all days, but here we are. I think the forum should have a thank you button where users can click and posters get points

@northumbrian_k: that's good to know. The reason we panicked is that dad saw this online:

[EDIT: looks like I cannot post a link as I have a low post count. If you type in Kingsley Napley Discretionary investment management and Lasting Powers of Attorney into Google, the first link is what dad found]

And he said to me "look like I have to write down specific instructions in order for you to manage my savings, I'd rather I didn't have to, but look at this document I found"

Dad's wish is quite simple - don't let my savings sit idle and get eroded by inflation. Ensure my cash savings are in the highest possible rate savings account and put a small proportion, say 25%, into a fund that tracks the FTSE 250 index and leave it at that.

If we leave the instructions part blank, when it comes to it, is there any reason I won't be able to do the above, as per dad's current wishes?

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @GaryTheSnail , I agree that you shouldn't be too specific in the instructions in the LPA and you should ensure that you and your mother or whoever else you decide will be your dad's attorney can act jointly and severally.
My mum was rather suspicious about the whole process so, though you can do it yourself much more cheaply, we went through a solicitor. Yes, it cost more but mum felt it was done properly. That might be the way to go with your dad, as he can raise any concerns with the solicitor.

 

[Jan48]

I did ours, we did not leave any specific instructions. We left it for our attorneys to act jointly and severally as they seem fit. Do it as soon as possible as it takes months to get it registered.

 

[nitram]

If all dates on the form are the same the OPG assumes they are signed in the correct order.

An LPA cannot deputise power, this means that discretionary funds are not allowed although receiving advice and acting on it is.

As said adding instructions has to be treated with caution, they really need legal scrutiny to prevent unintended consequences if circumstances change.

If we leave the instructions part blank, when it comes to it, is there any reason I won't be able to do the above, as per dad's current wishes?

No, although if they become obviously incorrect you can amend them in his best interests

 

[Kevinl]

I don't get the concept of "jointly" and "severally" liableality on a POA, so one poa takes cash out, well steals it but they're acting severally as opposed to jontly, new one on me.
K

 

[nitram]

I don't get the concept of "jointly" and "severally" liableality on a POA, so one poa takes cash out, well steals it but they're acting severally as opposed to jontly, new one on me.
K

Jointly - all have to act.
Severally - several individuals can each act independently.

 

[Kevinl]

I understand joint and several liability on a debt, but under a poa isn't that open to abuse by one party?
Banged on about it before too many times but rules vary between all 4 countries of the UK let alone those posting from overseas.
K

 

[canary]

OH and I both have POA where we are each others POA, plus our children - all jointly and severally. I know that OH will no longer be able to act as POA for me, but its OK as the children are on the POA too. If they were all jointly, then if something happens to one of the attorneys, then the POA becomes invalid. It also makes it almost impossible to administer.

We didnt put any specific instructions in our POA as it can make life extremely difficult in the future - you cannot plan for all circumstances and specific instructions can have unforeseen consequences

 

[SeaSwallow]

I understand joint and several liability on a debt, but under a poa isn't that open to abuse by one party?
Banged on about it before too many times but rules vary between all 4 countries of the UK let alone those posting from overseas.
K

Jointly and severely means the same all over the U.K..

 

[Kevinl]

Learn something new every day.
K

 

[northumbrian_k]

I am Attorney for my wife jointly and severally with her son. In practice he has shown no interest in taking decisions or being involved. That doesn't matter as I can act without him. That would not be the case if we were Attorneys jointly as I would have to consult him. We live nearly 300 miles apart which would make it yet more difficult.

An Attorney can do whatever is required in the Donor's best interests. Limiting that freedom to act by writing specific instructions could be counter-productive. What might seem to be the best way to manage assets at the time of making a Lasting Power of Attorney, for example, may not be appropriate in future. In choosing their Attorney(s) the Donor ought to consider their ability to act correctly without a list of instructions that might prevent them from doing so. If there are any doubts about a person's probity then they should not be appointed as Attorney.

 

[GaryTheSnail]

Thanks very much to all who took the time to respond. 🙏 Dad, mum and myself feel much more confident now. As I mentioned, we are a small family, I am the only child, we trust each other to always do the right thing and dad has no qualms in letting me and mum do what we think is right and in his best interest in the future.

I have also taken on board the point about the attorneys being able to exercise their powers jointly and severally, this makes sense as mum is in her early 70s (I think I will also suggest to mum that perhaps we should do an LPA for her as well!) so if, for instance, anything happens to her and she is unable to act, I will still be able to make decisions on dad's behalf, should I need to.

 

[Banjomansmate]

The Banjoman wanted only me to be his Attorney but as I wasn’t a family member I insisted on others also being included in case anything happened to me. I was the only one to register with his bank and had sole responsibility for his finances, however if any of the others had wished to they too could have registered as attorneys with the bank and could have had access to the account to check up on me. In fact I just kept in touch with the family member who was to be the Executrix of his Will and after The Banjoman I considered myself answerable to her as she would be dealing with his estate.

 

[GaryTheSnail]

@Banjomansmate, useful to know regarding banks and building societies, thanks for that.

 

[SAP]

Hi @GaryTheSnail . I am the only member of my family in the position to be LPA for my mum. We did the forms ourselves as there were no specific stipulations to be listed. At the time there was a lot of financial business to manage but once mum got to the care home stage and her property was sold, I sort advice from a financial advisor and from mums personal financial agent for her stocks and shares. Once we were at the paying for care situation, both advised that the assets should be moved as the stock market is not the best place for money needed for care to be kept, in fact the building society would not allow the account to remain in this situation.
As others have said, keep things simple if you can and then when the time comes seek advice to do the best by your dad but be able to meet his care costs.
Definitely get an LPA for your mum as well and probably not a bad idea to do your own.
It is a lot for one person to take on , my OH is replacement attorney for my mum and he has helped me a lot.