Care home won't take FIL as he doesn't want to go. Help! If he doesn't consent (and likely never will) are we stuck in this situation?

[lake_disappointment]

Hello everyone, hope you're all well and healthy and thank you again for all the support through this time!

Everyone was very helpful on here with my questions regarding preparing a LO for an assessment to go into a care home. It went well - yay! However, we heard back from the home, and they are not willing to accept my FIL as he wouldn't knowingly consent to going in, and would disrupt the other residents.

What do we do!? We're now trying to chat to him and win him round to visiting some care homes to try and get him on board. I'm just not sure he ever will. I'm really scared my friends. My FIL is getting worse! He gets confused by time of day, day of week, etc. Forgets his children's names. Gets lost in my bf's 2 bed flat regularly. Often can't find his bed and will just be around the house naked. He has now urinated in my bf's cupboards a few times. Sometimes he forgets how to eat from a plate and knife and fork. He struggles to dress and has some mad looking outfits now. We're most concerned about the fact my bf has a combo shower and bath, which seems like a recipe for a fall. I'm terrified we will just have to wait until he says yes, I'll move into a care home, or until he ends up in hospital. Do homes ever accept residents who aren't keen? We have an LPA thank god but it still seems impossible

 

[sdmhred]

Does your FIL have capacity to make this decision? From what you have said I am not sure. If he hasn’t capacity then with POA you can make that decision. You will need to find a home however that accepts such clients under Deprivation of Liberties (DOLS].

Have you heard of and considered this route before?

 

[canary]

Most people with dementia will refuse to go into a care home. My mum spent the first 6 weeks "packing to go home". If the resident wants to go home then the care home can apply for a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding in order to keep them there against their will - it seems to be standard in most dementia homes. However, it can only be used if that resident has lost capacity. I must say, though, that it doesnt sound to me as though your dad does still have capacity.

If the care home is saying that they wont take him if he doesnt consent and that they worry that he will disrupt other residents, this doeant sound to me like a suitable care home for people with anything other than the very earliest stage of dementia

 

[lake_disappointment]

Does your FIL have capacity to make this decision? From what you have said I am not sure. If he hasn’t capacity then with POA you can make that decision. You will need to find a home however that accepts such clients under Deprivation of Liberties (DOLS].

Have you heard of and considered this route before?

Hi there! Thank you for your reply 🙏

I personally am not sure if my FIL has capacity considering how confused he is, and then keeps saying he is perfectly healthy, going to live until he's 100, etc, which is clearly not the case, considering he can't go out alone and is lost in a very small flat. We're also unsure if we need to have an assessment done to see whether my FIL does have capacity or not.

This DOLS is good to know and no I had not heard of this route before. My bf is worried if it's somewhere that does accept DOLS it will be ****. But I'm not sure, surely this must happen a lot? And we could try and pick a niceish one? At least his dad would get the care he needs.

Ideally my FIL would pick one and say ok, to avoid going somewhere worse, but I'm not sure he has the logic now. He's incredibly suspicious and paranoid, and keeps threatening to "call the authorities", so I'm sure he'll say no to any option.

 

[lake_disappointment]

Most people with dementia will refuse to go into a care home. My mum spent the first 6 weeks "packing to go home". If the resident wants to go home then the care home can apply for a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding in order to keep them there against their will - it seems to be standard in most dementia homes. However, it can only be used if that resident has lost capacity. I must say, though, that it doesnt sound to me as though your dad does still have capacity.

If the care home is saying that they wont take him if he doesnt consent and that they worry that he will disrupt other residents, this doeant sound to me like a suitable care home for people with anything other than the very earliest stage of dementia

Thank you for your reassuring reply and your own experiences. That definitely helps me feel better after being rejected by this care home! Perhaps yes it isn't suitable - and I do read do often that most people with dementia won't go in to a care home willingly, so surely there are backup plans in place for these instances.

It's good to know that most dementia homes would have this safeguarding in place. Did your mum settle after the 6 weeks of packing to go home?

It's hard to know what counts as mental capacity or not, whether an assessment must be done by a medical professional or a care home to deem the person (such as our FIL) no longer with mental capacity? It's definitely obvious now to strangers as well as us he has Alzheimers, and getting a lot worse at home, but not sure if it counts!

 

[try again]

Have you involved social services? It was them that deemed my mum unfit to be at home any longer.

 

[canary]

It's good to know that most dementia homes would have this safeguarding in place. Did your mum settle after the 6 weeks of packing to go home?

Yes, she did settle after a couple of months and then she started to thrive. She made friends, joined in with activities and was happy there - none of which I expected.

As for your bfs comment about places that use DoLS not being very nice I thought I would mention that mums care home looked a bit shabby and old-fashioned, but you have to look beyond the decor and see the care provided - and mums care home had wonderful care.

Mum moved to her care home following a stay in hospital. She had a Best Interest meeting to decide whether she would be safe to go home and it was decided there that she had lost capacity and was no longer safe at home.

Actually, its this being safe at home that is the issue. Even if he has lost capacity, what will have greatest influence will be whether he is safe at home. My mum wasnt safe at home because she wasnt eating (she had forgotten how to cook), was neglecting herself and was going out at night just in nightwear and banging on random peoples doors at silly o'clock in the morning because she was lost.
All the while your dad is being kept safe it will be very difficult to get him moved into a care home, especially if he will need help with funding. It was only once mum ended up in hospital that she moved into a care home. I would start keeping a diary recording the occasions when he is not safe.

 

[cairo mick]

Does your FIL have capacity to make this decision? From what you have said I am not sure. If he hasn’t capacity then with POA you can make that decision. You will need to find a home however that accepts such clients under Deprivation of Liberties (DOLS].

Have you heard of and considered this route before?

Sadly as FIL clearly does not have full capacity they will not be able to apply for POA. However I think deputyship can be applied for in these circumstances

 

[lake_disappointment]

Yes, she did settle after a couple of months and then she started to thrive. She made friends, joined in with activities and was happy there - none of which I expected.

As for your bfs comment about places that use DoLS not being very nice I thought I would mention that mums care home looked a bit shabby and old-fashioned, but you have to look beyond the decor and see the care provided - and mums care home had wonderful care.

Mum moved to her care home following a stay in hospital. She had a Best Interest meeting to decide whether she would be safe to go home and it was decided there that she had lost capacity and was no longer safe at home.

Actually, its this being safe at home that is the issue. Even if he has lost capacity, what will have greatest influence will be whether he is safe at home. My mum wasnt safe at home because she wasnt eating (she had forgotten how to cook), was neglecting herself and was going out at night just in nightwear and banging on random peoples doors at silly o'clock in the morning because she was lost.
All the while your dad is being kept safe it will be very difficult to get him moved into a care home, especially if he will need help with funding. It was only once mum ended up in hospital that she moved into a care home. I would start keeping a diary recording the occasions when he is not safe.

Thank you so much for your response and I'm so glad she settled - that's also reassuring to hear and gives us a little hope.

Thankfully my FIL should be able to afford a care home but on the premise his house sells. It's sad that so much will go on care but what can you do!

I do feel if he did live alone he wouldn't be safe at all - the reason he moved into my bf's house was because he kept forgetting to call anyone in the family, then he'd forget to charge his phone so noone could get through. My bf was noticing more and more of things breaking in his dad's house so his dad would eat the bare minimum, and be unable to get things fixed. The last straw for him moving out was there was a storm and a suspected power cut, and we had no idea if he was ok. My BIL drove up and his dad had been sat in the dark with no heating for days and was in tears, and moved to my bf's. This was over a year and a half ago with the idea it would be temporary!

Now it's clear my FIL can't cook, he can barely make a cup of tea or toast. But if my bf is looking after him is he then safe? The flat itself isn't set up for someone with dementia, particularly with the shower in the bath - even we struggle to get in and out of it. But at least he's looked after. We're at our wits end though, and my bf can't be there 24/7 with work, and as a result worries a lot.

Thanks again xx

 

[nitram]

Sadly as FIL clearly does not have full capacity they will not be able to apply for POA. However I think deputyship can be applied for in these circumstances

A decision for him to move into a care home can be made by calling a best interests meeting.
This does not help with finances for which an urgent interim application to gain access to his accounts to release funds for care and also sell the house should be attached to the deputyship application.
Once the deputyship application is made the LA may help with a loan secured on the house.

 

[canary]

The time you have to look at is when he is on his own. Is he safe at these time? This is what SS will be looking at. The shower will influence them too.
Would he be self-funding?

 

[lake_disappointment]

A decision for him to move into a care home can be made by calling a best interests meeting.
This does not help with finances for which an urgent interim application to gain access to his accounts to release funds for care and also sell the house should be attached to the deputyship application.
Once the deputyship application is made the LA may help with a loan secured on the house.

Hello both -

So we have a LPA both for finances and health so we shouldn't need to worry about deputyship.
How and who do we call for a best interests meeting to make the call that a care home IS in his best interests?

 

[lake_disappointment]

The time you have to look at is when he is on his own. Is he safe at these time? This is what SS will be looking at. The shower will influence them too.
Would he be self-funding?

Ok this is good to know. And we do worry he is not - we got out for a max of two hours, but we have to come back to make sure he eats. We have tried in the past to leave him over mealtimes, even leaving him food to eat in front of him, but he gets confused if my bf disappears (changing the routine I guess?) and last time it happened he just didn't eat the food. He can just about organise breakfast, but gets everything out of the fridge and leaves it so it goes off. Just two days ago he set the fire alarm off trying to make toast. So it is a little problematic!

He would also be self funding yes!

 

[nitram]

Hello both -

So we have a LPA both for finances and health so we shouldn't need to worry about deputyship.
How and who do we call for a best interests meeting to make the call that a care home IS in his best interests?

My reply was to @cairo mick

In your case a best interests meeting is not required.
With LPA for health you can make decisions on his behalf of he lacks capacity to make them himself.
As he would be self funding you can decide on the care home, show them the LPA and see if they will accept him after they have assessed him.
They will apply for a DOLS for their own protections, without one they cannot legally prevent him from leaving the home and wandering off, they can only obstruct.

 

[SAP]

@lake_disappointment In response to your bf being worried about how the home will be if it is one that will apply for DoLS , my mum was in a lovely home with DoLS as assessed by a social worker. She then had to leave that home due to behaviour issues after about a year and was sectioned. We had no choice but to put her in a home that had a unit to support her needs. It is not pretty, up to date or even homely but the level of care and support is wonderful and she is so content now. Don’t let how a home looks put you off, look at how the staff care for the residents.

 

[lake_disappointment]

The time you have to look at is when he is on his own. Is he safe at these time? This is what SS will be looking at. The shower will influence them too.
Would he be self-funding?

Not always, sometimes he is fine for a couple of hours. Other times he cannot get himself to bed. He couldn't really eat very much unless it was left to hand. He has also fallen asleep on a chair and fallen and cracked his head open. My bf often worries he will leave the tap running and flood the flat as he has left it running a few times. The carers who come did an assessment a while ago to judge whether they would need to come for the full 24 hours over a weekend, and they said they would need to - so I guess he is not.

He would be self funding yes, thankfully he has plenty saved, sadly it will all go on care I imagine!

 

[ScaredyCat]

Mum wouldn't go into a home. It's a long story but in the end she did..but changed her mind the next day. I had been fighting with social services for 6 months prior to this.
They had to do a mental capacity test with her. Another long story but they ended up doing it once she was there rather than before. It was
to confirm I had the final say in her remaining in the care home. The mental health act says some one can be considered to have capacity in some areas but not with others. I would assume social services would give him a test and hopefully confirm he doesn't have the capacity to know he needs to be in a care home.
As others have said, I would look for another home. From what I've experienced on the dementia floor of mum's care home a majority of those who are able to express themselves want to leave, so homes with specialist dementia care should be prepared for your FIL to not want to be there. Mum has been there for 9 months and it is only in the last month that I've turned up and not found her with her coat on, clothes in hand, ready to leave. The home also suggested a DOLS and this had to be agreed by the SS.
How you get your FIL to go into a home, I don't know, but once there I used to tell mum she was in a posh NHS hospital because there was something wrong with her brain. They were going to work out what it was, give her treatment and then she could go home.