Average cost for waking night carers or overnight carers

Cinnamon009

Registered User
Feb 12, 2022
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Mum's alzheimers has deteriorated and with Dad on end of life care we have moved her to a weeks respite placement as we can't be sure she would be safe. The main challenge in keeping her safe at home is sundowning. She gets up frequently in the night sometimes getting fully dressed in the early hours and going outside to look for who is taking her home. She has had falls too in the night.

She is not self funding so we have to liaise with social services over her care.

I don't like the care home she has been put in as it's very noisy and not welcoming. I'm now doubting the decision to push for care home funding but at a loss as to what the options would be for anything other than a few months.

A full time live in carer is not affordable and I understand SS unlikely to fund. The alternative would be 4 times a day and nighttime carers. Would we need waking night carers or a normal caret who will just get up if she tries to leave the house? Will SS agree to fund this or if not what cost are we looking at?

Is there an alternative of perhaps a lodger who in exchange for free lodgings can be there if the door alarms go off? Has anyone had success with this type of arrangement. Any ideas welcome.
 

amIinthewrong?

Registered User
Jan 24, 2024
110
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Just a suggestion just because one care home may be off putting, doesn't mean that it should put you off looking for different ones, around you're area or a little further out, you can check them out and get a feel for whether they are right for you're mum.

On another note if you're wanting someone to care for her at night you'll be better off looking online for carers/companies that provide those services and ask them what their hourly rate is and for how many hours a week you can afford to pay out for, and if they have experience in order to deal with you're mum's needs. I think you might be able to ask social services if they have any contacts available.

And sorry I have no information about having a lodger, maybe someone else might have some clues to what you're seeking.☺☺
 

Violet Jane

Registered User
Aug 23, 2021
2,034
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In my experience, waking night care is not much cheaper than live-in care because the carer is essentially working a night shift.

I don't know anything about night care where the carer sleeps and only has to get up occasionally. However, you say that your mother gets up repeatedly and so it seems unlikely that this type of care would be appropriate - but you could make enquiries.

Your lodger suggestion is an ingenious one. However, it sounds as if she would be disturbed at night, which could be a problem if she works or studies or wants a normal social life. She would end up as a de facto carer trying to get your mother to go to bed, dealing with her falls, trying to prevent her from leaving the house and probably much else besides. Realistically, your mother would be on her own for most of the day unless you are going to make it a condition of the lodging agreement that the carer stay in the house at all times when the visiting carers are not there. I don't think that anyone would agree to this arrangement.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,048
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South coast
Ive just have notification of our care agencies new pricing. OH does not have live-in or overnight carers, but we have been sent the price list for everything.

You are going to need an awake carer. The paperwork states that if the overnight carer is wakened more than twice during the night, gets less than 4 hrs uninterrupted sleep, or each interruption lasts more than 20 mins, then they will be charged at the awake rate.
The price for 10 hrs - 10pm to 8am - is £242.25 weekdays and £269.25 at weekends. Premium days - ie bank holidays - will be more, but they havent said what they are.

Social Services will not fund overnight care on a regular and ongoing thing

I agree with @amIinthewrong? - this will not be the only care home in the area that will take her. Go and look at others around, but do check that they will accept the LA funding and not ask for you to top up the fees. Also, be very honest about what your mum is like. Many places will not accept people who are up during the night and you do not want to move your mum somewhere only for them to turn round in a week or so and say that you must remove her.

Also, bear in mind that care home for people with dementia are different at different times of the day. Generally, in the mornings the residents are at their best, this is when activities take place and there is a bright and busy atmosphere. In the afternoons many of the residents are tired and taking a nap in their room or snoozing in the lounge in front of the TV, so it is usually very quiet. Late afternoons and evenings is often noisy and a bit chaotic as this is the time when they are all sundowning. It can take a bit of getting used to.
 

Cinnamon009

Registered User
Feb 12, 2022
24
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Thanks everyone. My concern with the care home is that although it has a dementia unit she is not advanced enough for that so is on the normal care side. When we turned up we were given lots of paperwork to fill in but not one person came to ask what her care needs were and what she might need help with. For example, she doesn't change her pad but will sit in wet clothes and put the urine soaked clothes back on in a morning. She knows she has weetabix for breakfast but if you put all the bits in front of her she would not be able to put the weetabix in a bowl with milk. My sister had to get her ready for bed. No-one came to ask if she needed help bathing etc (she does). The lack of staff and care was astonishing. There is no way we can leave her there. I have no experience of care homes so not sure what we should expect. Given the amount being paid you would assume more than 2 staff looking after 20 plus residents.
 

SkyeD

Registered User
Oct 3, 2022
177
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When my mum went into a care home following a spell in hospital after a fall at home, I wasn't asked what her care needs were. That said, I trusted the staff to work things out for themselves - which they did within a couple of days. They then discussed her care plan and asked if there was anything else to add. They'd already picked up on most things.

From being a lady who would no longer wash and rarely changed her clothes, they managed to coax her into having baths within a fortnight of being there. Same with hair washing (convinced that water would make her hair fall out) and haircuts - within a fortnight, mum was having her hair washed, cut and blow-dried by the visiting mobile hairdresser. Similar with toe nails!

Mum was doubly incontinent, and whilst she was fiercely independent, the staff managed to coax her to let them help. Same with changing clothes. She had poor mobility and struggled to get arms and legs into her clothes.

Mum was a self-funder although her fees were paid by the LA until I had access to her funds (which was not until after probate after she'd died).

Cinnamon009, is it worth you speaking to the care home manager and giving it a trial?

S x
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,048
0
South coast
When we turned up we were given lots of paperwork to fill in but not one person came to ask what her care needs were and what she might need help with. For example, she doesn't change her pad but will sit in wet clothes and put the urine soaked clothes back on in a morning. She knows she has weetabix for breakfast but if you put all the bits in front of her she would not be able to put the weetabix in a bowl with milk. My sister had to get her ready for bed.
I think this is because she is in the normal care side where people are expected to be able to deal with things like this themselves and if they get into problems can ask for help themselves.

Who has decided that she is not bad enough for the dementia unit?
 

Cinnamon009

Registered User
Feb 12, 2022
24
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Thanks everyone. I think from the above that a care home is our only option. We would love to keep her at home but it just isn't possible with no night time support. She reacts really badly to medication so I would be reluctant to put her on sleeping pills. The manager of the home is currently on holiday and the staff member at the home who I spoke to was extremely hostile and downright rude. I said no one had asked about her care needs and she angrily waved the social services papers at me saying we already know what she needs and then gave short one word answers to my other questions. As this is respite, I need them on my side in terms of saying she does need full time care so I can't afford to go in hard just yet. The wider family are part of the issue as there are plenty of busy bodies who complain about everything but actually do nothing so they are not happy with the home despite mum seeming really happy.
 

amIinthewrong?

Registered User
Jan 24, 2024
110
0
Thanks everyone. I think from the above that a care home is our only option. We would love to keep her at home but it just isn't possible with no night time support. She reacts really badly to medication so I would be reluctant to put her on sleeping pills. The manager of the home is currently on holiday and the staff member at the home who I spoke to was extremely hostile and downright rude. I said no one had asked about her care needs and she angrily waved the social services papers at me saying we already know what she needs and then gave short one word answers to my other questions. As this is respite, I need them on my side in terms of saying she does need full time care so I can't afford to go in hard just yet. The wider family are part of the issue as there are plenty of busy bodies who complain about everything but actually do nothing so they are not happy with the home despite mum seeming really happy.
Regarding you're wider family you could say to them "look if you don't like my suggestion you are quiet welcome to have mum move in with you and keep an eye on her 24/7 but you will have to give up you're social life and work life does that sound reasonable to you?😃"

I really sympathise with you it's hard enough with what's going on already nobody needs to make it worse💐💐
 

Violet Jane

Registered User
Aug 23, 2021
2,034
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Yes, let the people who don't do anything except find fault with your decisions find a solution that doesn't involve you.

With dementia, you are often having to go with the least worst option and accept the less than ideal.

For what it's worth, I think that social workers' and society's view that people are always better off staying in their own homes until things become dangerous or grossly unsatisfactory is misguided. People who live alone are often scared, lonely and bored. Even three or four carer visits a day leaves them on their own for probably at least 20 hours out of 24. It's different if there is close family with plenty of time on their hands nearby but often that's not the case. In many cases there is no close family nearby or, if there is, they have to work and / or look after children or grandchildren. As people live into their nineties many family carers may have health problems of their own or may be caring for other relatives who are ill or disabled. The changes to the state pension age for women will increasingly have an impact as well, as will the increased cost of living. There just won't be lots of fit and healthy 60 year old women with time on their hands.