Am I the problem? Is it me? Dementia and Narcissism.

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
I am in my late forties. It has taken me decades to understand that there is a problem with my mother. When I was a kid I had a lot of friends who had an alcoholic parent. My mother isn’t alcoholic, but I related to how these kids were, we were similar somehow but I didn’t know how. In my twenties and thirties I read and read about the experiences of children of alcoholic parents, I read about the experiences of children of deaf adults, I worked with clients with mental health challenges, with personality disorders, with behavioural disorders. And one day I came across information about daughters of narcissistic mothers, and everything began to come into focus.



My narcissistic mother now has a diagnosis of dementia. My brother has always been her Golden Child. Dad, who was neuro-typical, passed away more than ten years ago. I could not wait to leave home and did so when I was seventeen. My brother, a professional on £60K+ a year has remained in my mother’s home and pays nothing, doesn’t pay council tax, doesn’t pay electricity, doesn’t buy groceries. I always suspected so but since having to help out with my mother’s affairs, I know this is all true.



A few years ago my brother met a woman, after some time they became engaged. Two weeks ago they got married. Last week they returned, to my mother’s home, despite my brother owning a home of his own. And here is the problem, my mother expects me to continue travelling back and forth to ferry her to the local supermarket to buy groceries for all three of them. Mum has difficulty with planning and organisation, so I end up having to write a shopping list for her. My brother is incredibly fussy and critical about food so I have to figure out meals that he might want to eat. If he has objected to whatever my mother was making for dinner that day, my mother would phone me in the full expectation that I will jump in my car, travel to the local supermarket to buy something else that he’d prefer more and drop it off at her house.



I live 30 minutes away from my mother. A journey to and from her house takes an hour at the very, very minimum. One day last year, on a Saturday, I was cooking a meal as my partner and I had a house guest. My mother phoned complaining that she had no food. I dropped what I was doing, went to the local butcher and the supermarket. When I arrived at her house, my brother’s fiancée was washing the dishes after lunch, and my brother was relaxing in a recliner in the living room.



I am not in employment, my partner supports me. For a while my mother gave me petrol money to cover running back and forth to the supermarket for her until my brother objected to this and accused me of taking money from my mother which I shouldn’t have been. My partner was utterly incensed by this and from then on he has filled up my car with fuel every week.



Both my brother and his wife have a car each. My mother insists that she wants to continue to ‘feed them’. I’ve told her that if she wishes to do that, then she should arrange with my brother and his wife to take her to the local supermarket. This conversation escalated with my mother telling me that she didn’t like how my mind worked and she was disappointed in me. I lost the plot. Told her that she was obsessed with my brother. That she took care of her own needs and took care of my brother’s needs but didn’t give a toss about my needs. I asked her what was so special about my brother and his wife that I have to act as a slave to her relationship with them?



Am I a bad person for refusing to run after my brother for my mother? I am so conflicted. On the one hand I think this is ridiculous. On the other hand I think - ‘but she’s got dementia’. And then on the other hand I have a lifetime of experience of this kind of manipulation and devaluation.



Help!
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
7,412
0
Nottinghamshire
Hi @Rose Lee welcome to the forum.

You are not a bad person!

Your mother may have dementia but your brother hasn’t and neither has his wife. I’m actually shocked that you’ve been running around for them like that at all. It’s definitely time to put your foot down . They’re all adults. Let them organise their own lives. You need to live yours.

Decide on what help you are willing to give to your mum - which shouldn’t include enabling her to look after your brother - and stick to it. If she asks you to run ridiculous errands tell her you’re sorry but your car’s broken and she’ll have to wait…
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
Hi @Rose Lee welcome to the forum.

You are not a bad person!

Your mother may have dementia but your brother hasn’t and neither has his wife. I’m actually shocked that you’ve been running around for them like that at all. It’s definitely time to put your foot down . They’re all adults. Let them organise their own lives. You need to live yours.

Decide on what help you are willing to give to your mum - which shouldn’t include enabling her to look after your brother - and stick to it. If she asks you to run ridiculous errands tell her you’re sorry but your car’s broken and she’ll have to wait…
@Bunpoots thank you so much for your reply, you have no idea how much it helps. I know this journey will just get more difficult but I feel so burnt out already.
 

northumbrian_k

Volunteer Host
Mar 2, 2017
4,736
0
Newcastle
Hi @Rose Lee and welcome to Dementia Talking Point our friendly and supportive community. I would say that you need to step back and let others take up some of the load. There's no need for any guilt.
 

JaxG

Registered User
May 15, 2021
839
0
Hi @Rose Lee I am glad you have found Talking Point, and no, you're not a bad person. I can relate to some of what you say and it's a shock isn't it to realise that your mother has not always behaved as well as she should. In your situation, my opinion is that she has behaved appallingly and there is no way you should be doing her shopping when she has two able adults living with her, dementia or not. They are adults, are living rent free and do not need looking after. Your brother is more than capable. And of course she should be giving you petrol money!! You should not put up with this sort of emotional abuse, from your mother and brother, you may have to accept that nothing you do will be good enough and make your choices accordingly. Just because a parent give birth to us does not give them automatic rights as we become adults to permanent care. Relationships are hard work and command mutual respect and care.
I am a carer for my husband with dementia, but my mother, who is 90, still expects me to make a 100 mile round trip to deliver her a newspaper as and when. She too is reluctant to give me petrol money even though she inherited a large sum of money a few years ago and she know that I am struggling, still paying off my husband's debts. I too have discovered both my mother and husband have narcissistic traits, my brother and I were raised to make my mum happy, she has expected everyone in her life to look after her but nothing has made her happy or appreciative. To add salt to the wound, 30 years ago I asked for her help, as a one off, with my children, she refused telling me she 'had done her time'. I have recently told her that I am not coping and I need time off from visiting her. She has begrudgingly accepted it for now, but I know she will turn at some point. I finally realised that I have rights too.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,450
0
South coast
I was reading your post and got to the bit where you were saying about how your mum expected you to just come running, even though your brother and his wife were there and my thoughts were - no, dont do that, the brother is there so he or his wife can do that. Then I read on and found you were asking whether you would be a bad person for refusing!

So, no, you are not a bad person. If your mum were on her own she could be excused as she has dementia, but shes not - your brother is there and he can sort it out.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
Hi @Rose Lee and welcome to Dementia Talking Point our friendly and supportive community. I would say that you need to step back and let others take up some of the load. There's no need for any guilt.
Hi @northumbrian_k thank you for the welcome. I have been trying to take a step back, I really feel like I need to. On the last two occasions that I told my mother that I wouldn't be available for her on that particular day, she phoned that day and ended the phone call saying 'I might as well be dead', then hung up, and on the other occasion she phoned late in the evening to tell me that she had been out wandering on the main road. She hadn't. I have a lot of anxiety at the moment which is not the norm for me, I swing between thinking that she knows exactly what she's doing and is being deliberately manipulative and then thinking that she believes what she's telling me.
 

northumbrian_k

Volunteer Host
Mar 2, 2017
4,736
0
Newcastle
"she knows exactly what she's doing and is being deliberately manipulative and then thinking that she believes what she's telling me."

The truth may lie somewhere in-between. It is hard to step back and harder when one receives abuse for doing so. But consider your own and your partner's needs first.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,450
0
South coast
I swing between thinking that she knows exactly what she's doing and is being deliberately manipulative and then thinking that she believes what she's telling me.
She has lost empathy and can no longer see what it is like for other people. All she can see are her own wants needs and comforts and she has got used to you doing these things for her. She has no idea what it costs you in time money and emotionally to do them - she wants things and assumes that you will do them, because you always have. It does not occur to her that it might cause you a problem and it certainly doesnt occur to her that someone else (ie your brother) could do it instead. All she can see is that she wants something, you have said no and it feels to her like the end of the world because she cant see any other solution. When you say no to her, remind her that your brother or his wife can do it instead.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
Hi @Rose Lee I am glad you have found Talking Point, and no, you're not a bad person. I can relate to some of what you say and it's a shock isn't it to realise that your mother has not always behaved as well as she should. In your situation, my opinion is that she has behaved appallingly and there is no way you should be doing her shopping when she has two able adults living with her, dementia or not. They are adults, are living rent free and do not need looking after. Your brother is more than capable. And of course she should be giving you petrol money!! You should not put up with this sort of emotional abuse, from your mother and brother, you may have to accept that nothing you do will be good enough and make your choices accordingly. Just because a parent give birth to us does not give them automatic rights as we become adults to permanent care. Relationships are hard work and command mutual respect and care.
I am a carer for my husband with dementia, but my mother, who is 90, still expects me to make a 100 mile round trip to deliver her a newspaper as and when. She too is reluctant to give me petrol money even though she inherited a large sum of money a few years ago and she know that I am struggling, still paying off my husband's debts. I too have discovered both my mother and husband have narcissistic traits, my brother and I were raised to make my mum happy, she has expected everyone in her life to look after her but nothing has made her happy or appreciative. To add salt to the wound, 30 years ago I asked for her help, as a one off, with my children, she refused telling me she 'had done her time'. I have recently told her that I am not coping and I need time off from visiting her. She has begrudgingly accepted it for now, but I know she will turn at some point. I finally realised that I have rights too.
Hi @JaxG thank you for your reply. Wow! I laughed out loud in recognition and exasperation when I read
I am a carer for my husband with dementia, but my mother, who is 90, still expects me to make a 100 mile round trip to deliver her a newspaper as and when.
Nothing is ever enough and no need is ever insignificant. What a job description, eh, somehow we're brought up to believe that we have to meet this parent's needs, but they are never satisfied. I have such a huge sense of sadness and self doubt because of these kinds of issues in my relationship with my mother. I've described to my partner having a sense of 'toxic hope' in relation to mum, that somehow this time she would respond like a normal, loving parent, but recently the penny has dropped that 'toxic hope' is just another way to describe denial. I'm in denial about who she really is.
Just because a parent give birth to us does not give them automatic rights as we become adults to permanent care.
I loved my father and I keep asking myself what my father would want for my mother, that keeps me going back and helping out. But I realise that I never ask myself what my father would want for me. I'm sure it wouldn't be this. But I think there's part of me that wants to prove to the world that I'm not a bad person.

My own mother is very manipulative when it comes to money. I swore years ago that I would never ever ever ask her for anything (if I could help it), or rely on her for any kind of support. She would just find some kind of way to use that against me.
I finally realised that I have rights too.
THIS. YES. I think in any caring situation there is a time where boundaries have to be explored and set, but it is so much more difficult when narcissism is in the brew. I want to be saying this truthfully for myself in the very near future, with a tight lid on any guilt, anxiety or self-doubt.

Thanks for your reply.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
"she knows exactly what she's doing and is being deliberately manipulative and then thinking that she believes what she's telling me."

The truth may lie somewhere in-between. It is hard to step back and harder when one receives abuse for doing so. But consider your own and your partner's needs first.
Thanks @northumbrian_k you're spot on, all of this is taking a toll on our relationship, I need to anchor myself back there in our life together.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
She has lost empathy and can no longer see what it is like for other people. All she can see are her own wants needs and comforts and she has got used to you doing these things for her. She has no idea what it costs you in time money and emotionally to do them - she wants things and assumes that you will do them, because you always have. It does not occur to her that it might cause you a problem and it certainly doesnt occur to her that someone else (ie your brother) could do it instead. All she can see is that she wants something, you have said no and it feels to her like the end of the world because she cant see any other solution. When you say no to her, remind her that your brother or his wife can do it instead.
Hi @canary thanks for your replies. This post really resonates with me. Even pre-dementia my mother was very determined and skilled in getting her own way. Recently when I've said that I can't be with her on certain days, she demands to know why. My house is a midden, so I tell her truthfully that I need to clean up, get the house in order, it makes me feel better to have a clean environment. She then DEMANDS to know exactly what housework needs done. If I wasn't so anxious and burnt out her response would be quite darkly funny, I could respond, 'you're not going to bully me out of housework no matter how mad you get at me, mother.'. But the reality is that I shouldn't have to feel that I need to justify why I can't be with her, time to myself is important. Thanks for your replies @canary
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply to my post. Thanks for all the kind words, perspective and wisdom through experience. I've been having a decompression cry reading your replies. I realise that I need some help and support for myself. Thanks <3
 

CAL Y

Registered User
Jul 17, 2021
648
0
@Rose Lee . I too left home young because of a narcissistic mother so I have some idea of what you are going through.
This might sound shocking to you and others but it took me to the age of 68 to finally tell her that I hated her and I cut all ties. Didn’t even go to her funeral.
and do you know I have never regretted it and have felt so free since in spite of being The sole carer for my late husband who had dementia.

You are not only being manipulated by your mother, who probably has an excuse although if she has behaved liked this all her life, dementia will make it worse, but you are being treated like an unpaid servant by your brother and his wife.
It’s time to stop. Take a step back and let them get on with it.
If you carry on like this you will have a breakdown.
Stay away from them , what’s the worse that can happen. And don’t feel guilty, they don’t.
Take care.
 

JaxG

Registered User
May 15, 2021
839
0
@Rose Lee . I too left home young because of a narcissistic mother so I have some idea of what you are going through.
This might sound shocking to you and others but it took me to the age of 68 to finally tell her that I hated her and I cut all ties. Didn’t even go to her funeral.
and do you know I have never regretted it and have felt so free since in spite of being The sole carer for my late husband who had dementia.

You are not only being manipulated by your mother, who probably has an excuse although if she has behaved liked this all her life, dementia will make it worse, but you are being treated like an unpaid servant by your brother and his wife.
It’s time to stop. Take a step back and let them get on with it.
If you carry on like this you will have a breakdown.
Stay away from them , what’s the worse that can happen. And don’t feel guilty, they don’t.
Take care.
You are right @CAL Y . It has taken me to 65 and reaching breaking point, looking after a husband with dementia, to understand that I have been manipulated by a narcissistic mother throughout my life!! It's hard to admit, hard to deal with when you want to behave with care and decency, but some relationships are not worth saving.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
@Rose Lee . I too left home young because of a narcissistic mother so I have some idea of what you are going through.
This might sound shocking to you and others but it took me to the age of 68 to finally tell her that I hated her and I cut all ties. Didn’t even go to her funeral.
and do you know I have never regretted it and have felt so free since in spite of being The sole carer for my late husband who had dementia.

You are not only being manipulated by your mother, who probably has an excuse although if she has behaved liked this all her life, dementia will make it worse, but you are being treated like an unpaid servant by your brother and his wife.
It’s time to stop. Take a step back and let them get on with it.
If you carry on like this you will have a breakdown.
Stay away from them , what’s the worse that can happen. And don’t feel guilty, they don’t.
Take care.
Hi @CAL Y thanks for your reply.
I'm not shocked. Unless you've experienced it yourself, it might be hard to understand. It's such a relief to be able to communicate with people who do understand. I've often wished that I made a decision years ago to draw a line, but I know that I personally would have been burdened by that decision, I wish I wasn't made that way but I am. One 'benefit' for me over the last few years has been that dementia has made my mother less guarded. I see her more clearly. I am less doubtful (at times) of my own perception. It's been hard won, and I often wonder if it's been worth it.
Thanks for sharing your experience @CAL Y I really appreciate it.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
608
0
You really need to take a step back and as another poster has said your family are taking advantage of you and treating you like a slave. I had a dysfunctional childhood and suffered physical and emotional abuse which was ignored by others and because I was fed, clothed and had a roof over my head social services didn’t want to know. I’m still emotionally scarred by my past. I left home as soon as I was legally old enough and have always put a physical and emotional distance between me and my parents as it was the only way of coping. Now Mum has Alzheimer’s it feels a huge burden but apart from trying to ensure she gets the care she needs I’m not prepared to wreck the life I’ve worked hard to create.
 

Rose Lee

Registered User
Jun 1, 2023
28
0
Hi @Firecatcher thanks for your reply. I've been wondering lately whether if I'd had a very loving, close relationship with my mother, if the process of dementia would have been more traumatic for me. Somehow the distance between us has protected me in a way. Maybe I've been spared something.

I can still summon up that intense feeling I had as a kid of wanting to escape, wanting to be free and to breath. I've kept coming back though, hoping somehow that this time would be different. It never is different. But each time I see it now, I see it a little more clearly.

I am in awe of your determination to respect and protect the life that you've created. You sound as though you are very grounded in yourself, if that makes sense. I feel like I'm at the stage of trying to retrieve myself from everything that's been going on.

My partner is much more of an old testament temperament than I am. I keep telling him that 'I don't want to be a zombie.'. You know how in zombie movies you fear the zombies, run away from them, then you get bitten, and then you're just like them. I don't want to be just like them. But I don't want to be a mug either.

Thanks for your reply @Firecatcher I really appreciate it.