Alzheimers and violence

[KarenC]

I'm sure these are very difficult decisions for your mother, but it seems like it is really necessary for her to do something at this point. Where will she live when she sells the house? Do you have "reverse mortgages" there for older people, as we have in the U.S.?

Karen

 

[Jude]

Hi Paul and Karen,

Yes we do - well at least a couple of the major banks have this system although it isn't widely advertised. Might be worthwhile investigating this first of all, Paul.

Jude

 

[Poppetweb]

Hi Paul and Karen,

Yes we do - well at least a couple of the major banks have this system although it isn't widely advertised. Might be worthwhile investigating this first of all, Paul.

Jude

"Reverse Mortgages" - never heard of that ??

She'll just rent a flat I suppose.

 

[Sandy]

Hi Paul,

Have you read the Alzheimer's Society's fact sheet on paying for care homes? You can find it here:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring...idential_and_nursing_care/info_payingfees.htm

I'm not sure why your mother thinks she needs to sell the house to pay for care, as the value of the house (when still occupied by a spouse) is not taken into account when determining the local authority's contribution to care home costs. However, if she converts the home to cash, then half of that cash will be counted when looking at your father's savings levels and his eligibilty for funding!

Does your father have a social worker (SW)? If not, and your mother is considering care options, it will be important to get a SW involved. A SW can advise about the full range of support options from home helpers to care homes in your area.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Jude]

Reverse Mortgage

Dear Paul,

It is possible to apply to some of the major banks here [not sure which ones] to apply for a Reverse Mortgage. This system only operates for properties that have no existing mortgages.

The bank assesses the potential resale value of the property and nominates a monthly sum of money that it would have to lend to a new borrower if the house was placed on the open market. That monthly amount can then be used to pay care fees and the sum is deducted from the current market price of the property. This system provides care fees without actually having to sell the house.

Hope this makes sense.

Jude

 

[Poppetweb]

Hi Paul,

Have you read the Alzheimer's Society's fact sheet on paying for care homes? You can find it here:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring...idential_and_nursing_care/info_payingfees.htm

I'm not sure why your mother thinks she needs to sell the house to pay for care, as the value of the house (when still occupied by a spouse) is not taken into account when determining the local authority's contribution to care home costs. However, if she converts the home to cash, then half of that cash will be counted when looking at your father's savings levels and his eligibilty for funding!

Does your father have a social worker (SW)? If not, and your mother is considering care options, it will be important to get a SW involved. A SW can advise about the full range of support options from home helpers to care homes in your area.

Take care,

Sandy

My mother has found Social Workers to be less than efficient in our area and now makes decisions on her own common sense I guess.

Re saving being taken into account after the sale. there are care homes and there are care homes... she would want the best she could afford.

 

[Poppetweb]

Dear Paul,

It is possible to apply to some of the major banks here [not sure which ones] to apply for a Reverse Mortgage. This system only operates for properties that have no existing mortgages.

The bank assesses the potential resale value of the property and nominates a monthly sum of money that it would have to lend to a new borrower if the house was placed on the open market. That monthly amount can then be used to pay care fees and the sum is deducted from the current market price of the property. This system provides care fees without actually having to sell the house.

Hope this makes sense.

Jude

mmm, thanks anyway but I know she would just sell up and pay on a monthly basis for care from the proceeds.

 

[Jude]

Dear Paul,

The one major bonus of reverse mortgages is that your mother wouldn't have to endure the upheaval and stress of a major move on top of everything else. Might be worth investigating.........

Jude

 

[Sandy]

Re saving being taken into account after the sale. there are care homes and there are care homes... she would want the best she could afford.

Just to put all the facts on the table: even if the local authority contributes to the care home fees, you still have complete freedom of choice regarding which home your father would go to.

However, if your mother chose a home with a fee that was more than the local authority's normal rate, for example £550 per week when the normal rate was £375, the local authority might expect the family to "top up" the difference.

I have read some articles that state that this practice is not entirely in keeping with the current legislation. Also, if the case can be made that a particular home is really the best choice for the person, the local authoriy might not require the top up. This whole area seems to be a bit murky, but the Alzheimer's Society's helpline could offer some advice.

Also, someone can enter a care home as self-finanacing if they have savings above the threshold for local authority contributions. When their savings fall below that threshold then the local authority can start contributing. Having a SW involved early on would probably make this process faster and smoother.

Finally, if your father has complex medical needs, he might be eligible for full funding under the "continuing NHS care" heading.

Given care home fees can run to over £25,000 per year it really is worth investigating all the options.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Poppetweb]

Yes, we can see that the best option is to keep him at home. He has lost all interest in everything - food, TV, newspaper, company, sleep, etc. So, would it really be worth £100's a week?

Change of heart - my mother has decided to keep him at home... for better or worse... in sickness and in health... if she becomes ill though this extra stress at least she will have given her best and know in herself that she has. More importantly - not let my dad down by "putting him away".

 

[Jude]

Dear Paul,

Up until 3 weeks' ago I would have agreed with you 100%. I've battled for 6 years to keep my parents in a family environment. Since this became untenable, I've changed my view somewhat.

My parents are in a very comfortable NH with wonderful staff in a superb and caring environment. They are extremely happy and well looked after 24/7.

Do investigate some options before you make a final decision here.

Best wishes,

jude

 

[daughter]

Hi Paul,

Are you really happy with the prospect of your Mum becoming ill through the stress or being harmed by the violence? If your Mum does become ill through it, then who will look after your Dad then?

When my Dad became violent last year, my sister and I just couldn't stand by seeing both our parents struggling to cope and do nothing. We made an appointment to look round a home with my Mum saying it was 'just in case' - she was, after all, not relishing the prospect of (as you describe) "putting him away". The thing that convinced her to select a home, in the end, was when someone else said to her that if she became ill, then Dad would be put just anywhere.

Since Dad has been in the home, he has been properly assessed, given medication for the violence, is settled, very well looked after and as well as can be expected. Mum visits him every afternoon and (as has been mentioned by others on TP already) is able to make some of those times special for both of them. Mum naturally still wishes she could bring Dad home some days but at other times she is very sure that she did the right thing. She is still very much his wife "for better or worse... in sickness and in health.."

I hope you can resolve the money issue and find a solution that is fair and supportive for all of you.

Best wishes,

 

[Sheila]

Dear Paul, whilst I can totally understand your Mum's sentiments, I have to, in all honesty say that daughter has, in my book, hit the nail on the head. Love She. XX

 

[Sandy]

Hi Paul,

Please understand, my previous post wasn't making the case for or against a care home. I was merely pointing out that if your mother was seriously considering that option, she ought to know what she and your father are entitled to in terms of the state's contribution to costs. It was primarily important to understand how the sale of the house would convert a valuable asset into cash that would be counted against them.

I have to say that I also agree with everything that daughter(Hazel) has said.

The difficulty with this disease is that you constantly have to keep assessing what the person with AD and his/her family's needs are. There are no black and white solutions, only darkening shades of grey.

So, at the moment your dad goes to day care twice a week and the rest of the time your mother manages on her own (with some support from local family like yourself?).

The trick is to map out a continum of care options, ranging from the current situation to a permanent place in a care home. One possible point along the way is the help of care assistants in your parents own home - even someone coming in two or three afternoons a week can make a big difference. Another is the use of respite in a care home - which could be a productive spur to at least start to look at what care homes are on offer.

Even if your mother was less-than-impressed with SS in the past, they are essential in organising and advising on these services. Common sense isn't enough in this confusing and potentially overwhelming situation.

I was looking at quite a few care homes a few months ago. Seeing the type of compasionate, thorough, person-centred care that was provided at the best homes was quite reassuring. In no way did the money spent to provide that environment for those people and their families seem like a waste. I have always told my mother-in-law that as long as they are happy and well-cared for, we don't care if we have zero inheritance.

You should also consider what would happen if, heaven forbid, your mother should fall ill or even die. The worst case scenario would be that your father would have to go into a care facility in emergency mode. If all their joint assets then went to your father, the state could count them all in their assessment for paying care home costs.

I'm not trying to scare you, but it really is important to think about all the possible outcomes.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Jude]

Dear Paul,

There's some incredibly sound advice in these posts.

I also totally understand completely how both you and your mother are feeling. Trouble is that one cannot make objective decisions from a subjective standpoint. Outside advice is essential to keep you on track here. At the very least, it will give you some alternatives.

Best wishes,

Jude

 

[Poppetweb]

Thanks to everyone

I take my leave here. I will not be signing on again.

From the bottom of my heart I thank everyone who has contributed to the points I have raised, mainly Alzheimers and violence, agression - call it what you will I hope others will be helped too from what various people have contributed to this thread and the thread may even continue...

No doubt everyone's advice is sound. Tried and tested, even.

I am not in a position to intervene. My mum must decide what is best and get the information herself. I don't have contact with anyone (agencies, Social Services etc) but you good people in the Alzheimer's forum.

She's just getting round to completing a form to get a council tax rebate because there is a disabled person in the household (my dad).

I hope the forum goes from strength to strength with those strong enough to come here and discuss problems. I'm not one of them, sorry. I can't go on here.

Take care,

Paul.

 

[Poppetweb]

I'm back again

Hello, some readers may remember me in this thread.

Three months ago I left the forum, at that time I thought for good, not because anyone upset me, their advice was good - it was perhaps commonsence but not that easy to put into practice.

Just to update - mum is still at home with dad who has dementia. She cannot get a home for him because they have been together 40 plus years. It's very hard for her - both the thoughts of him going into a home 13 miles away and the difficulties of keeping him at home.

Perhaps those of us who have not been in a relationship that long (and I include myself) cannot begin to understand the turmoil?

 

[Sheila]

Hi Poppetweb, nice to hear from you. I think what you say is quite true. My husband and I have been married that long too. We are like two halves of the same whole if you like. This is most likely how your Mum and Dad are too. Just because your Dad is ill, it won't change this. It will of course make things harder for your Mum though, as she no longer has that other half in all she does to agree, bash things out with or whatever, which she is so used to. Does that make any sense or am I rambling?? The thought of him not being there physically even though they can no longer share the things they used to will fill her with dread. OK some days it will get on top of her, especially when your Dad is being difficult as you have mentioned in previous posts, but she will still be reluctant to change anything unless she really has to. All you can do is give her as much support as you can in loving and caring for your Dad if that is how she wants to do things. They are still a team, she still needs to feel that and dementia is not going to stop her, good luck to her I say. The road is long and hard, but there are places to rest at if she wants. Respite and day care for a start. These will make sure she gets some time to recharge a bit. Thinking of you, sending love and hugs to you all, love She. XX

 

[Poppetweb]

Thank you

Many thanks for your (re)welcome Sheila and Nada.

What you have said, Sheila, makes 110% and I thank you for putting your thoughts together.

I will come back regularly when I can share some views.

Paul.