Agency Carers falsifying hours

[Skye]

I don't know if this is general, but one of the carers who came when John was ill told me that travelling time is not factored in. So they could be scheduled to be at one house 8-9, and another one 9-10, with 20 minutes travelling time between the two. Understandable if the agency can only claim for the hours on the worksheet, but it means travelling time has to be shaved off caring time.

I found Crossroads ladies were always punctual, and often stayed long after their scheduled time. One of John's ladies even visits him in the NH, in her own time.

 

[117katie]

Hope you found something nice for dinner, gigi!

Yes, I agree, it is cheap labour .... but WHY? Why on earth should we be expected to accept cheap labour to care for our loved ones?

Did you ever have a choice? As to whether you wished cheap labour to be in charge of the care? No, of course not, and neither did I.

When we go the the hairdresser - how much per hour are we happy to pay? Do we have a choice? No, but we are happy to pay the displayed price. But we then have influence over the hairdresser we choose to frequent, for our 'hair lopping' as I call it.

Why on earth have we not been able to convince those in a position of "decision making" that we would be prepared to pay a decent price for decent care, and decent loyalties and decent responsibilities ...

Dunno the answer to that one, but someone else may know the answer .....

KATIE

 

[ellie 123]

Just an update

Hi everyone

Did manage to call agency today and was a little taken aback as manager said I should speak to carers and state their duties, time keeping. She then said that they had a meeting recently that no 10 mins visits should ever happen but at least 50 mins is acceptable. Now I am not picky but hang on a minute - 50 mins is acceptable - I'm sure if I'd worked like that my job wouldn't have lasted 5 mins.

Anyway she said she would speak to the main culprit as she believed she had lead the other one astray and I would agree with this.

And give credit where credit is due - she was quite sweet tonight and there was absolutely no atmosphere. But it was funny because she kept telling me to go and rest that they were there for an hour (this bit she repeated several times). But there was no attitude when she said it. But......there's always a but, as I was sitting in the next room I couldn't help but here her spend quite a bit of the hour on her mob to friends! But like Clive said there has to be some give and take and the main thing for me is that they do the necessary for mum.

Surprisingly, I haven't lost it with anyone and always speak nicely to them - offering them to help themselves to a hot drink as they do rush between calls, I know.

elain02 - no English through and through, but I'm really not bothered if they come from Mars as long as mum is taken care of well.

Taffy - there are brillian ones, such as today when I was really really ill and had to leave them to it and they were terrific. I happened to mention the situ to these ones (without mentioning person concerned name), I wanted her to be aware that if anything general was said - it had nothing to do with her. She told me some of her regular clients have also complained to her about it, and really it's not fair on the hard workers like her that will practically spring clean the kitchen when she's finished.

I have mentioned the excellent ones to the manager.

Jaws - this used to happen when mum lived alone and I had to pay irregardless as I wasn't around to prove it.

Katie - you get stroppy - never!!!!(lol) Love it, keep sending them our way Katie - that made me laugh out loud.

gigi's right though - there's good and bad everywhere. And I do wonder why they do the job because compared to what the agency charges and the going rates always advertised in the job column!!! Plus they don't get any petrol allowance. I just don't want 10 mins service out of a contracted 1 hour. Anyway, everything should be good now.

Take care everyone, ellie

 

[Tender Face]

Just scuttling back here to the original post (and I am a paid employee of charitable organisation and I see falsifying hours or not giving my job the 'full whack it deserves' as downright theft personally ......and worse - an abuse of the very people who need help the most) Ellie - why not set your alarm clock when they arrive? - if that is time for you to 'rest' ...... go to bed and refuse to get up again until the alarm goes off ...... go for a walk and work off some anxiety and don't get back until the allocated time is up .......

If the staff are bothered about 'clock watcher clients' then their heart isn't in the job - only concern for their pay packets .......

Who arranged the 'care package'? Rather than confront the agency directly - I would be speaking to the people responsible for 'sub-contracting' ....... they need to be urgently aware of the situation - if this is happening to you then it is doubtless happening to many others ........ (and sorry, last thing we need is to take the world on when we have our own personal traumas to face) - but I would cut out the 'middle-man' .........

It is so easy to become so desperate for help we accept anything and everything offered - I understand your reluctance to challenge - only thanks to a prompt here and a subsequent conversation with the charity concerned - am I about to challenge a service provided to my mum for which I have been grateful - until it has been pointed out that it falls well below the mark mum and I should have expected ........ Methinks sometimes we are so grateful for any forthcoming help, we dare not make waves ......

With love, Karen, x

 

[Kayla]

Language and accent issues

When my Mum was in the NH, the staff came from all over the world and they provided an excellent service. Many of the carers were in fact nurses in their own country, but because they were still learning to speak English, they had to take a lower paid job. Once they had acquired the necessary language skills and qualifications to nurse in this country, they could move on to a better position.

My Mum was quite hard of hearing and she found it very hard to understand what was being said to her sometimes. There were also problems when Mum used old-fashioned colloquial expressions, as the carers and nurses didn't understand what she meant.

One of the senior nurses spoke excellent English, but with a very strong accent. She was trying to ask Mum what she wanted for pudding and was saying "lemon meringue pie" just as it is spelt, "lemon mer-ing-goo pie". When I explained how it is usually pronounced, she said that it wasn't surprising Mum had no idea what she was saying!

Perhaps the language barriers between the elderly patients and younger care home staff from different backgrounds, need to be more carefully considered and more opportunities given to help employees, who speak English as an additional language, improve their linguistic skills.

Mum always said how kind everyone was in her NH and being well treated is the most important thing of all.

Kayla

 

[jenniferpa]

Perhaps the language barriers between the elderly patients and younger care home staff from different backgrounds, need to be more carefully considered and more opportunities given to help employees, who speak English as an additional language, improve their linguistic skills.

Mum always said how kind everyone was in her NH and being well treated is the most important thing of all.

Kayla

I think that is a very valid point Kayla. A lot of elderly people are going to be dealing with hearing deficits even if they don't have dementia. My mother at the end of her life had difficulty with even regional accents and I suspect that that's not uncommon. As you also note, though, a kind approach and a smile does go a long way towards dealing with a possible language barrier.

 

[117katie]

Communication Issues

Could not agree more, it is so important that the communication issues are addressed as a priority.

And I do know what LANGUAGE-LEARNING is all about. Believe me.

I will still have to request kindly nicely and politely and politically-correctly that until and unless we ourselves are able to understand the carers who are caring for our people, then we will continue to have problems and 'our people' will continue to have problems. I speak as a trained linguist,and former translator and interpreter, and then as a trained broadcaster-of-information.

If anyone arrived at my front door and asked to be allowed into my home, then unless I could understand that which they were saying to me, then sorry, folks, I would hope to think that I would not grant permission to cross my threshold.

Sorry, if that offends, but why should it?

KATIE

 

[jenniferpa]

Well I think when you're paying for a service you're entitled to make whatever rules are legal and enforceable. However, language skills are only part of the communication equation.

 

[Kayla]

The EMI NH my Mum was in, must have been quite a good one, as they had students from a University on work experience and also there were sometimes training courses at the home.
When the carers and nurses have to work quite long hours, at possibly unsocial times, it is difficult to see how they can have sufficient time, to mix socially with other people, to improve their English.

Perhaps the way forward would be for the Care or Nursing Homes to try and organise social events within the local community, like a coffee morning for instance, so that residents and staff don't feel so cut off from society.

When Mum was still at home, we arranged a home help and a carer for her, using people we knew quite well. Unfortunately, Mum just wanted them to sit and chat with her over a cup of tea, so that when I went round, I often had to do the jobs they had been paid to do!

The carer, who was a trained nurse, didn't keep an eye on the medications as I had wanted her to and I still had to check them every day, which was a nightmare.
When we cleared Mum's house, ready for letting, I found the settee hadn't been vacuumed under its cushions properly and was full of crumbs!
These ladies were friends of the family!

Part of the problem, could be that the person being cared for, doesn't really want somebody outside the family doing housework or personal tasks for them and actively stop the carer or home help from doing their job. I did find it annoying to to hear Mum saying that "It's all right, you don't have to do that, my daughter will do it for me."
Mum would often tell the checkout staff that she didn't need any help, when I had a full shopping trolley and would have appreciated some help with the packing!

I did find that sometimes Mum showed more consideration for other people than she did for me and expected me to be available at any time, day or night. If the carer or home help were ill, they could have a day off, but I had to turn up even if feeling really unwell.
Supervising carers who help vulnerable people in their own home is always going to be really difficult unless there is a good system.

Kayla

 

[117katie]

Agreed, Kayla,

I agree entirely with your last post. But why is it so obvious to you and to me and to many of us out here, but not obvious to those who are in a position of being able to influence the changes that you would like to see?

KATIE

 

[TinaT]

One thing is clear from this thread. The new Goverment initiative in giving 'service users'control over their own budged has many, many pitfalls. I only hope that someone on TP who has power to be able to pass on our experiences - good and bad - can get this kind of first hand information out to the
Policy Makers. When carers come into our homes we are so very vulnerable, emotionally and physically. To have the task of 'policing' the agency carers is just too much on top of all we are going through!! xxTinaT

 

[gigi]

Alarm bells

Kayla-just read your post: Brought my mum to live near us 2 years ago after dad died-she's 80 and I thought pretty sound.
Except that I've noticed when I take her shopping(we share a trolley-so I unpack hers first and then mine)she'll move forward to the checkout and the person will say"would you like any help with your packing?"
And she'll say "No-it's ok thanks-my daughter's here-we're together-she will do it for me"
And there I am getting hotter and hotter unpacking and packing and wishing I was was anywhere else but there.:
Reading your post-going off the thread I know-makes me wonder..
My mum doesn't have AD-(I hope not)-it's my husband who has it.
But I also have my mum to look out for-take shopping, etc.
Am I falling into this role of "doing"
Next time i take her shopping I'm going to be aware of this and accept the offer of help!
thanks for making me see this! love Gigi x

 

[Clive]

Hi Ellie

Gosh, if you deal with the Care Company like you managed to dissect this thread and mention everyone who posted to it, (as you did in your 7 o’clock post), you are not going to go far wrong getting those Carers doing what you want.

Looking back over the Carers who came to look after mum I now realise they all had individual strengths. The lady, who was best at first when mum was docile, was just too weak to deal effectively with mum during the last few weeks, and the lady who appeared too offhand and bossy really became the star of the show when mum began to loose it.

And Kayla, I had exactly the same experience. Mum just did not want anyone cleaning her house. Most of the time she treated the Carers as old friends who had just popped in for a chat and a cup of tea. Nothing I could do changed that.

All the best

Clive

 

[CraigC]

I only hope that someone on TP who has power to be able to pass on our experiences - good and bad - can get this kind of first hand information out to the
Policy Makers.

Hi Tina,

Just to make you aware, this is a support forum and the alzheimers society do not monitor posts. I'm not saying you don't get listened to on talking point, just that there is sometimes a misconception on this forum that post are being monitored by 'the powers that be'.

In fact, this is a misconception on many support forums in my experience.

What I'm trying to say is that if you have a specific issue that you'd like the society to raise or address then you really need to post details directly to the society, not just on the forum. Their contact page is below.

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=200130

As moderators we try our best to inform the society of any issues and highlight certain threads but in reality the best way for people to raise issues is to contact the society directly by email, phone or letter. The more individuals that can contact the society, the more likely they are to respond and action these specific issues.

I'd also like to point out a thread that may interest you.

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=6937

New consultation for carers - make your voice count. This is a chance for cares to post their experiences on issues just like this.

There is also another thread "MPs to examine the prescribing of neuroleptics"
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=8905

Again, this is a subject that many discussed on talking point after the panorama programme but we really need people to contact the society directly (the contact email is in the thread) with their views and experiences. The more people that contact the society, the more likely that we can all make a difference.

Hope this makes sense and apologies to anyone who is already aware of this.
Kindest Regards
Craig

 

[Kayla]

Taking an elderly person out shopping can be a nightmare, especially when they can't walk very fast! I found that pushing the shopping trolley slowly and then having to stop and look for Mum when she got lost, really made my back ache.
It wasn't always possible to make two separate trips to the supermarket each week. I had to take my husband with me so that one of us could push Mum's trolley and the other could collect our own shopping. It did make a lot of hard work!
By the time Mum went into a care home, I was having to look in her cupboards and make her shopping list, as well as push the shopping trolley around for her. She became very unsteady on her feet and I was always terrified that somebody would knock her over. She also used to wander off and get lost, which was rather difficult.
I think sometimes it is necessary to say no, if taking a relative shopping is taking up too much time. It was so much quicker and less worrying to get Mum's shopping for her, but she thought of the supermarket trip as a day out!
It was very hard to combine caring with working and looking after a home, with no break or help from anywhere. Carers should also think of their own needs and health issues so they don't get ill themselves.

Kayla

 

[Margarita]

When carers come into our homes we are so very vulnerable, emotionally and physically

That is so true , it gone really out of hand with my carer , at the beginning she use to shower mum , so that took around an hour . then mum could not get into bath lift , so has been having wash down . so it took half hour and I sigh for 1 hour .

Time go on she doing it in 15 min , me not timing her anyway as she turning up at 6 am or 7 am when she was originally book in for 8 am .

her excuse is she got 6 clients to fit in

I have different carer at weekend , who really rushes mum , so stone face .

when I ask other carer about her , she tell me she from a tribe in Nigeria , they like that .

Then sunday she turn up at 11 am , so mum says she does not want her to wash her , so I send her home . so I wash mum , then find they a funny small coming from mum privet parts , they not washing or drying mum skin between her privet parts , it was red raw .

so on Monday I tell carer, who says its down to mum wearing pads, so give her the benefit of the doubt

Then on Tuesday I open door to stone face carer . Me surprised shock to see her because she only work weekend . she just walk right past me . as nothing wrong so I ask her, is it Saturday ? she says other carer has gone to doctor , so she doing it to day and she in a rush , that was it !

I told her she got an hour to do my mother and that why my mother red raw down below, because of all the rushing , so if she can't do it , shall get someone that can.


well she was not so stone face at me now . she went on to explain why she thinks mum red down below . she says mum needs shower or bed bath as she can't reach that area , from mum just standing up .

Carer from weekend , says she went to doctor because her blood pursuer high , so is taking next week of .

I seem to be bending backwards in accommodating them, because of this --

-- I had a lovely young carer Last year she was 33 years old her Nigerian name in English was Remember, she never turn up one day so got a phone call from agencies asking if she turn up , as she had not turn up for her other jobs

Next day got a phone call saying that they had break down the door of her room , she was found dead , death unexplained .

 

[TinaT]

Thanks for your post Craig, I was not aware of the addresses and am glad that you have put them out. As you say, if enough of us use them to highlight what could be a problem for all of us, then something may be put forward on our behalf. This is a valuable place for us all to express our feelings and of course this is the principle on which we all post, me probably more than anyone.

The shopping thing is soooo true. Especially when mum says, no thanks, my daughter can do it. I'm off to Blackpool on a round trip to pick mum up from her 'tinsel and turkey' 5 day holiday. Not because I voluntered but because mum volunteered my services without asking me. When I tacked her about this she replied 'Well, Betty's daughter is taking us so I said you would bring us back' Help!

I

 

[elaineo2]

What i related to as the ethnic minority wasn't at all a rescist remark.I am purely putting the point forward that i work in care and have encountered the time sheet fiddling before.the generation i care for were brought up in a world of rascism,in my experience they reject them which is their decision and is respected where possible.no offence was intended to any nationallity.elaine

 

[Margarita]

i care for were brought up in a world of rascism,in my experience they reject them which is their decision and is respected where possible

I know what you mean its just so hard to find the right word to be political correct , that you end up in fear of being called a racist when your not , your just bring up an issue that does happen, as you said above .

We undertand that they where brought up in a world of rascism back in they days , so was my mother . That why I ask other carer about stone face carer that was also black, my mother Just hate her face , while other carer is Black mum love her , because she was brought up in England rather then a tribe in Nigeria,

does seem that Black Nigerian , black Caribbean , people do this type of Job more , rather then White
british people Or English people .

Must be because its so low paid , or wondering why

 

[CraigC]

In my humble opinion, I see two reasons for seeing more ethnic minorities working in elderly care.

A lot of people come from countries were the elderly are still held in respect and great regard. Often in their culture the elderly are cared for and respected and it is seen as a privalage and not just a duty. This is a trend which seems to be slipping away in the UK. In fact, I often see the 'duty' slipping away. Just my humble thoughts.

Then there is the low pay. I am sometimes told that that they cannot get the staff from the UK to work in elderly care on the money that the home can afford to pay. I'm sorry, but I find that hard to swallow when I look at the fees we pay for mum and dad. I even know homes that help carers from abroad with accommodation as they find it so hard to get people to work on the low hourly rates. This is one reason why many carer work such long shifts.

Either way, I value anyone who has the patience to care for anyone.

What really bugs me about the agencies, is that they charge the NHS a fat hourly fee for home care (or the client in the case of those not funded), the carer often sees only half the fee. I'm sure they'd agrue about the training they provide and the massive overheads, but I don't see such a fat markup in other industries. Carers are also under pressure when they work for an agency, often providing their own transport and keeping on top of the paperwork in their own time.

Kind Regards
Craig