Advice on sectioning & care costs

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Trog, May 5, 2007.

  1. Trog

    Trog Registered User

    Apr 21, 2007

    This is my first message since registering - mainly because things have been so hectic that I have barely had chance to sit down at my computer!

    My father was diagnosed with Alzheimers last December and has very quickly deteriorated. Two weeks ago, after a particularly bad day, including wandering, refusing to keep on his clothes and then becoming aggressive, my mother phoned her doctor in despair - just hoping for a change in Dad's medication. The doctor came out to see them, swiftly following by a social worker and psychiatrist and the end result is that he was sectioned. Very upsetting!

    Now things are a little calmer. The unit Dad is in is brilliant - very kind and supportive. They are assessing him, trying out new medication etc. At the moment we don't know if he will be coming back home to Mum or not.

    I have a query that I hope someone may be able to help me with.

    As far as I understand it, if Dad stays in the unit for longer that 28 days, he would have to be resectioned (under section 3). Then section 117 would apply relating to aftercare arrangements - which would mean that the local authority would be responsible for providing and funding care.

    Does anyone know if this is the case, or have I misread things?

    I am trying to find out likely possibilities for the different situations that could occur as my Mum is obviously very stressed and upset, and struggling to take in all the information she is given. (Ordinarily she is very well organised and mentally more alert than I am most days! but at the moment it's just too much for her.)

    Also does anyone have any experience of council grants for home improvements. My father wouldn't let Mum get much work done to their house and consequentially it is very, um, run down - wiring problems, no heating etc. We were wondering if there are any grants available for people looking after Alzheimers relatives - I suspect the answer to this is a no!

    Many thanks, & warm good wishes to you all.
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    #2 jenniferpa, May 5, 2007
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
    I believe you are correct on all the points you've raised. However, you might want to look at this which describes the law regarding to accommodation as "still unsettled".

    Regarding the grants issue. i have no personal experience but I believe there are some poeple who do. Depending on the age of your parents, and their location, they may be eligible for grants for heating, plus other grants for "disability access". Some councils also offer a service whereby they can direct you to reasonably priced tradesmen to provide low cost repairs.

    Edited to add
    Warm Front: if you father is in receipt of attendance allowance or other benefits see here
    Repairs: take a look here
  3. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    #3 Margarita, May 5, 2007
    Last edited: May 5, 2007
    Please to tell thats a YES

    even if you won your own home the
    Occupational therapy from your local authority can do an assessment on your father needs , then on they home and put in all the adoption your father needs. And they don’t have to pay

    Phone you local Social services the hospital your father in can tell you where they are or they may have one in the unit ward your father in

    I know they also do grants up to £30 00 for home improvement
    for the elderly ( local authority)
    it is mean tested
    I think , so long ago that I got it for my mother father , that I can't remember .
    and you can’t sell your home for 3 years or other wise you have to pay it all back .
  4. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    Unfortunately Margarita I think you will find that those grants are for adapting the home in various ways for the needs of the "disabled" person; things like extra safety rails, shower seats, hoists for lifting people in and out of bed, etc.

    I don't think that they are available for general repairs and upkeep of the house.

    However I believe there are grants available for things like installing central heating if there is none, particularly if the occupant is getting good old Pension Credit.

    It would be worth contacting your Social Services office, or a Citizen Advice.
  5. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    Hi Trog

    Sorry to hear you're all going through such a difficult time. It's good that the phone call to the GP got such positive and helpful action though.

    Sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp of the Mental Health Act. I'm not quite sure though about the bit about if dad stays there longer than 28 days he would have to be Section 3'd. It's true that he can only be there 28 days under Section 2. But I'm not sure that he would necessarily be sectioned again when the section 2 runs out. It's at least theoretically possible that he could be regarded as a voluntary patient. Probably depends on how compliant dad is with treatment and staying there.

    It might not hurt to check some of this out, possibly with MIND to make sure your dad doesn't lose out on aftercare by being regarded as voluntary patient.

    best wishes with it

  6. Nels

    Nels Registered User

    Jul 25, 2006
    Romford Essex
    You can get heating installed, about 3/4 years ago MIL had central heating put in and did not have to pay anything, she owns her own home, but only has the state pension etc coming in with AA and pension credit. Age Concern will help, but the link a previous poster put should put you in the picture. Good luck.
  7. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    The Pension Credit is the important bit. Pension Credit is the key to unlocking many benefits, without it, you find that you don't qualify for lots of things.

    This can be very annoying if, as with my parents, they just fall out of the Credit criteria because Dad has a small private pension that he often did without in order to pay into it.

    He could have had a better quality of life by spending the money whilst working, and qualified for a lot of things under Credit that he would at th emoment have to pay for. :eek:
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Actually the warm front grant (the heating installation) will payout even if attendance allowance is the only benefit you receive. That may not be true of the other schemes, but it is true of that one.
  9. Trog

    Trog Registered User

    Apr 21, 2007
    Many thanks to all of you for your kind advice and thoughts.

    Jenniferpa - Thanks for the info about 'warmfront' - I've clicked on the link and it could be very helpful if Dad comes home.

    Margarita - Thanks for all your advice - Mum is trying to get in contact with the social services but they are proving a little hard to speak to!

    Nebiroth - I hadn't thought about contacting the Citizen Advice - brilliant idea!

    Aine - Looks like your words have proved prophetic - Mum got a letter at the end of this week to say that they have removed the sectioning - although Dad has agreed to stay on as a voluntary patient until the assessment process is completed. So Mum & Dad will now have to pay full costs! We were more than half expecting this, though. I had visited the MIND site, as you'd advised, but haven't been able to find much out about being a voluntary patient.

    Nels - Thanks for the info about pension credit/central heating. I sympathise with your comments as my parents are in exactly the same position. Just above the threshold - but not enough to live a particularly comfortable lifestyle.

    Mum has been told there is to be a meeting in two weeks time to discuss Dad. At present we don't know if they think he is well enough to come home or not. They are still adjusting his medication and assessing him - he has good days and not-so-good days - like many others I am sure.

    Meanwhile we're just in a 'limbo' situation which Mum finds a bit hard to deal with, but the care he is getting is good and he seems quietly content - which is all we can ask for at present, I think.

    Best wishes to you all.
  10. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    #10 Margarita, May 13, 2007
    Last edited: May 13, 2007
    Click on the link I left in my last post

    that come from
    Social services, when they refer you to OT she or he come to your home ,does an assessment on the person needs look at what adoption need to be done to the home
  11. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    #11 kayleigh999, May 13, 2007
    Last edited: May 14, 2007

    Just wanted to add my view of recent information I was given. I spoke recently to a psychiatrist via my boyfriend who is a close, personal friend of his. The Doctor did mention this going onto section 117 of the sectioning then getting care paid for ( out of general conversation because I cant bear to think that far down the line yet regarding my Mom)

    Apparently, its a rarity. After sectioning usually the aim is to get the patients fast-tracked onto the best medicine,sort out any blood tests for underlying conditions and send them home ASAP with a care package in place. Home being the main choice because of funding. He added its very rare for them to be kept from 28 days, onto the second part and then onto sectioning rule 117 (again costs)

    As I say, a psychiatrist, very experienced, on an evening out and talking "off the records" to a friend.

    I am imagining that when that care package is no longer enough and a home is the only choice then its down to voluntarily and then if applicable the fees will come into place.

    Anyway hope it is some use although I would imagine areas, treatments and fundings vary massively.

    K xxx
  12. Trog

    Trog Registered User

    Apr 21, 2007
    Hi Kayleigh999,

    Thanks for the 'inside info' (well, kind of!) From the feedback we are getting you seem to be right. I think whether Dad comes home or not largely depends on whether Mum can cope with looking after him. Physically he is quite demanding and it is almost like looking after a 6 foot toddler! When he was admitted three weeks ago, Mum was totally at the end of her 'tether' - she is over 70 herself. We shall have to see what happens when we at last get to discuss everything with the professionals in a couple of weeks time.

    Thanks again.

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