Advice needed on what a SW can do or ask for

[TJT]

I've been looking after mum who's now had altzhimers for about 5 years. Dad passed away last year due to cancer and mum came to live with me and my husband. Mum's still very aware of things and very capable of making her own choices and decisions, also very capable of making drinks food and her own hygiene routine. She has short term memory issues but can remember when prompted or reminded.
My issue is that a completely false allocation from someone has been made about mum's care. Myself and my two brothers spoke to the social worker on the phone and she was happy with the conversations, but obviously still needs to come out to see mum and speak to her about her care, health etc. Before dad passed away he asked me to take care of mum and make sure she is looked after. It was both dad's and mum's wishes that my brothers and myself received our inheritance early, mum wants to be around to see us all enjoy it and be part of it. As I have LPA for finances and health/social and I am the executor of the Will, I did this as it was their wishes. We are aware that these gifts of early inheritance are to be still available should she ever need paid for any care outside the family. Although that won't ever be needed as we have a very strong family bond and support each other with respite between ourselves. What I can't understand is why the social worker has asked for hard paper copies of mum's bank accounts. I agreed over the phone, but after speaking with family members and Internet searches it appears that she/I don't have to do this?? We haven't applied for any financial help at all from anyone and to me it looks like they may be trying to do a financial assessment on her. Can they do that when we didn't ask for it. Mum's very aware of this situation and is rather annoyed at it all to say the least. She says it's none of their business what she does. I am more than happy to meet with the social worker and all of the family to speak to her. But not happy about her asking for her bank statements. I think they are trying it on and getting irrelevant information. Should the time ever come ( it won't) that a financial assessment is needed then I would be more than happy to give this information they asked me for. Until I get to that stage. Can I refuse to give the statements to them? Any money she gave us will still be available should she ever need it. She still has money in her account that will cover any issues....
Sorry for the long post.

 

[Sarasa]

Welcome to Dementia Support Forum @TJT.
I'm afraid that social workers can ask for details of your bank accounts etc if they think you are deliberately trying to 'hide' your mother's money so that you don't need to pay for care in the future. While your mother is alive, any money she has is hers and it should stay in her account, though I totally take on board that it will be available for your mum if needed. The thing is dementia is a progressive disease and though you can manage now there is no guarantee you will be able to long term.
As this is quite a complicated issue I think it might be a good idea to talk to someone at the Support Line about it.

Dementia Support Line

If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[Rayreadynow]

If you haven't asked for a needs assessment from the council I don't think they have any right to ask for financial information. You don't have to give them access. I can imagine if your mum and yourself decided to buy a house jointly together and went to live in it to give yourself more space, that would be a decision that is nothing to do with the LA.

 

[jugglingmum]

It sounds like there might have been a financial safeguarding alert raised in connection with your mum.

When this happens SS are legally obliged to investigate, my daughter has worked with adults with learning disabilities and has found SS to be very quick off the mark to investigate, compared to providing other support.

If your mum has lost capacity, then there is a limit to the amount of gifts which can be made from her assets, and also attorneys aren't allowed to financially benefit from acting as attorney.

If your mum potentially needs care in the future gifting assets could be regarded as deliberate deprivation of assets.

Your mum is in the very early stages of dementia, my mum lived for 12 years from the point your mum is at. In many years time your mum might need care and legally her assets have to stay in her accounts for this reason.

Whatever your intentions I suggest that the SW might not be happy with what you've done, you might need a solicitor and take the Social workers request seriously.

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @TJT I am afraid that what you describe as receiving your "inheritance" early might be seen as using your mum's money for your financial gain rather than in her best interests. As Attorney you do need to be careful about managing your mum's affairs and being aware of the potential to fall foul of rules on deliberate deprivation of assets.

Inheritance does not apply until after a person's death. At that point your role as Attorney will end. Being Executor of a Will after a person's death is entirely separate from and unrelated to management of their financial affairs during their lifetime.

You need to be prepared to answer social services on any points that they raise, in relation to the above or anything else. It may be that all is found to be in order, which indeed I hope will be the case. It is hard enough looking after a person with dementia without having to deal with allegations.

 

[TJT]

Hi @TJT I am afraid that what you describe as receiving your "inheritance" early might be seen as using your mum's money for your financial gain rather than in her best interests. As Attorney you do need to be careful about managing your mum's affairs and being aware of the potential to fall foul of rules on deliberate deprivation of assets.

Inheritance does not apply until after a person's death. At that point your role as Attorney will end. Being Executor of a Will after a person's death is entirely separate from and unrelated to management of their financial affairs during their lifetime.

You need to be prepared to answer social services on any points that they raise, in relation to the above or anything else. It may be that all is found to be in order, which indeed I hope will be the case. It is hard enough looking after a person with dementia without having to deal with allegations.

Although mum has altzhimers, it's only short term memory and this is something she asked me to do . The money won't be touched and as I told them straight away what mum and dad wanted and that should mum need it in the future it will be there for her without a doubt. Mum has all her facilities , but has short term memory problems. She knows what she's saying and doing. If needs be we will just transfer the money back to her. She's not happy at all that they are telling her what to do with her money. I understand that her future care is the priority. We as a family made a promise to our dad to care for her. So no matter how hard it may get in the future we won't let him down. I used to work in a care home with several altzhimers sufferers so I know it won't be easy... but we as kids weren't easy for mum at times ... its our turn now to care for her.

 

[SAP]

This sounds to me like due process following a safeguarding allegation , in this instance regarding financial abuse . This probably has nothing to do with when or how your mum will be cared for or how she will pay for it but about needing to investigate claims that someone has told social services that your mum has been coerced into parting with money against her will. Social services do not have the time or money to do financial assessments where they are not required and indeed it would be the financial department for the local authority who would do this not social services.

 

[TJT]

This sounds to me like due process following a safeguarding allegation , in this instance regarding financial abuse . This probably has nothing to do with when or how your mum will be cared for or how she will pay for it but about needing to investigate claims that someone has told social services that your mum has been coerced into parting with money against her will. Social services do not have the time or money to do financial assessments where they are not required and indeed it would be the financial department for the local authority who would do this not social services.

Thanks for that. I only did what mum
( and dad ) wanted. I never wanted this power of attorney to begin with. The report was I wasn't looking after her. I do absolutely everything for her, regarding medication, appointments, taking her out, up to date with covid and flu jabs, blood tests etc etc. What a carer should be doing..The allegations are ridiculous, very hurtful.... they have spoken to my brothers who have told the SS that this is just another malicious attack on me by another family member. They praised me over her care over the years saying they didn't know what they would have dobe without me.. mum has said the same many many times. I have had Several completely unrelated allocations made against me over several years and they were all thrown out as logged as malicious reports. I'm just so mad that they are allowed to continuously try to make my life hell over the past few years without me being able to do anything at all about it. It's wrong, how can they get away with it. Once they speak to mum and see how well she is and very well looked after she is they will also come to the same conclusion . As for her wishes, we'll we will just transfer it back to her, that's not a problem at all. I'm just sick of them and it's stressing mum out too , which makes me mad at them... it boils down to evil and jealous people .. but I've done nothing wrong, Her care isn't an issue at all and the money can be returned, which mum's annoyed about...

 

[TJT]

Happy mum having a cuppa and bacon butty.... looks pretty happy, content and looked after to me🤷‍♀️

 

[TJT]

Happy as Larry 🥰

 

[Lawson58]

I think the biggest problem you have is that when it comes to money, other people tend to get suspicious as to your intentions. The perception is that you are trying to swindle your mum out of her money.

Whilst that may not have been your intention, money is at the centre of much elder abuse and people are very aware that there are many people out there who are trying to get their sticky little fingers on a parent’s money before they are entitled to.

Though you are fulfilling your mum’s wishes, it may not have been the wisest thing to do, given the circumstances in that as an attorney, you have a duty of care to act in your mum’s best interests and removing her money into other people’s hands would not appear in the eyes of others to be doing the right thing.

If the money is going to remain untouched then it could have just as easily stayed where it was.

 

[nitram]

If the money is going to remain untouched then it could have just as easily stayed where it was.

and been included in any financial assessment.

 

[Lawson58]

and been included in any financial assessment.

And then there would never have been a problem.

 

[northumbrian_k]

There is a discrepancy between saying that mum wanted to share in the enjoyment of passing on her money (which implies spending at least some of it) and insisting that it is all still there, albeit in a different account. It can't be both of these. If the Attorney can satisfy any investigation that money is being used properly for the Donor's benefit (and not for the benefit of themselves or others) all should be well.