a will question

[malengwa]

Hope someone can help.
Mum is at end of life now and we are discussing planning her funeral. Mum made a will which we have a copy of and I know she wants to be buried. But I felt pretty certain mum updated her will a few years back because she told me about things she wanted eg music at her funeral. We have looked and looked and finally found a letter from the will company from 2009, saying here is your will blah blah. This will we cannot find. Now mum pays so much per year to the company for storage so is it possible do you think to get another copy? I know who she leaves what to, my interest in purely in knowing what she has requested for her funeral such as did she name the music, the church, the type of service? It may not be recorded but it woukd be really helpful if it were and we knew in advance.
I do have POA but don't know if that makes any difference.
Any thoughts?

 

[Beate]

Contact the company and explain, it's always worth trying.

 

[canary]

When I was clearing out mums bungalow when she went into a care home I tried to find out what was in her will so that I didnt accidently get rid of something that she wanted to bequeath to someone. The solicitors who sorted out her will would not give me a copy or let me see it until she had died. I think that they wernt actually allowed to tell me what was in it either, but they did helpfully (and rather cryptically) let me know what she wanted to bequeath.

 

[nitram]

The solicitors who sorted out her will would not give me a copy or let me see it until she had died. I think that they wernt actually allowed to tell me what was in it either, but they did helpfully (and rather cryptically) let me know what she wanted to bequeath.

They were acting correctly.

"The Court of Protection has made it clear that property and financial affairs attorneys and deputies owe a duty when making financial decisions, so far as is reasonably possible, not to interfere with the succession plans made by the person for whom they act 3>. Having knowledge of the contents of the will and/or codicils(s), means that the attorney or deputy is in a position to act in the best interests of the person for whom them act and in particular may:...."

Two examples follow.

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/c...closure-of-an-incapacitated-persons-will.page

 

[malengwa]

I thought this might be the case. Since I only woukd like to find out funeral arrangements that may be written in the will, do you think there is any chance they might tell me if there is or isn't, which would not need me to be aware of any other content?

 

[Beate]

We're not experts on what those solicitors might or might not tell you - you'll simply have to ask. I have to say though that I find it unusual to put funeral wishes into a will, seeing that sometimes a will is only read when funeral preparations are already underway. Might it be a separate document she lodged with them? But if it cannot be found or disclosed to you yet, I am sure you know your Mum well enough to be able to organise a fitting funeral. I did not have much to go on with my OH yet I think I did him proud.

 

[malengwa]

You are right, beate, it is odd, but mums original will did indicate her wish to be buried, but then my dad's will clearly says he doesn't want to be resuscitated which seems even odder.
I suppose as it's the last thing i/we can do for her, I'd like to ensure that if she did have any other wishes, then I'd like to think we have provided them.

I can ask, just wondered if anyone had expertise. Thankyou for your replies.

 

[jimbo 111]

Your post is a good warning to us all to make sure as far as possible what our wishes are when we die
I have what they call a' Living Will' and a statement outlining what my wishes are when I die
so my sons will know before the will is read

 

[nitram]

You are right, beate, it is odd, but mums original will did indicate her wish to be buried, but then my dad's will clearly says he doesn't want to be resuscitated which seems even odder.
I suppose as it's the last thing i/we can do for her, I'd like to ensure that if she did have any other wishes, then I'd like to think we have provided them.

I can ask, just wondered if anyone had expertise. Thankyou for your replies.

A financial LPA has a duty to act in the donor's best financial interests.
Guidance, and court judgements, say that this extends to ensuring, as far as possible, that any bequests are carried out as the donor intended.
If the donor has to assets and one of them has to be sold to pay for care and the attorney sells the one that had been bequeathed in a will they would not be acting in the donors best financial assets.

It can also be beneficial to the attorney to know the contents of a will, this is illustrated in the example in the link I earlier posted:

June has made a will in which she gives her friend, Margaret her premium bonds. At the time of making the will these are worth £500. June’s son, David is the sole residuary beneficiary. David is unaware of the contents of the will.

June has dementia and lacks mental capacity to manage her finances. David is appointed as June’s deputy. He decides he should invest £49,500 of June’s money in premium bonds.

June dies. David discovers that Margaret will now get £50,000 premium bonds (much more than his mother ever intended) and he gets less than intended.

Had David been aware of the will, he would have invested his mother’s money differently, so as not to frustrate June’s succession plans.

All of the above relates to finances, I've posted it to indicate what I consider to be the legal position.

I've looked and cannot find any similar information about health and welfare attorneys.
It would be simple to argue that carrying out your Mum's after death wishes must be acting in her best interests and therefore you need to know them. However the LPA lapses on death of the donor and the duty of carrying out any wishes falls on the executor(s).

Try writing (emailing) the company holding the will and asking that as your Mum is now at end of life could you have details of any funeral requests so that you can prepare yourself for the difficult times .
Explain that you have LPA (both or only one?) and think you are an executor - there may be a second will which you have not seen.

 

[Kevinl]

I asked a solicitor if my mother (as a poa) could be told the contents of her brother's will, I was told not as it had written on the envelope that it was only "to be opened after his death".
From what he said I got the impression that this was a common thing so years later I never asked about the contents of my mother's will expecting the same answer. I closed certain bank accounts and consolidated them into just two and in doing that disinherited all her grandchildren and a couple of charities and benefitted myself and my brothers, totally accidentally.
When this all came to light after my mother passed away we did a "deed of variation" to the will which put everything back to how it was intended, we all agreed this was the right thing but legally didn't have to do it that way.
A lot of people these days specify using a percentage of their estate rather than a specific asset or bank account which makes a lot more sense to me, a £1,000 bequest now to someone may be OK at today's prices but in 10 years time it'll probably be the cost of filling up your car with petrol.
Far more sensible to (say for example) leave 75% of your estate to your children and 15% to the grandchildren and 10% to the charities X Y & Z or however you wan to split it, that way everyone gets the proportion you want. You can still leave specific item as you wish,
K

 

[mab]

Far more sensible to (say for example) leave 75% of your estate to your children and 15% to the grandchildren and 10% to the charities X Y & Z or however you wan to split it, that way everyone gets the proportion you want. You can still leave specific item as you wish,
K

This is common practice in Islamic and Middle Eastern countries.

 

[lemonjuice]

Can't help with special knowledge, but certainly after my mother's recent death, when I went to see the solicitor , he had on his desk an unopened envelope, obviously with the will and asked me if I was aware of the contents, so it may well be that the solicitors cannot open the will yet.

Which doesn't help you at all. However the best thing you could then do is follow your instncts. As I said to someone only today, the person who has ies won't be there at the funeral to mind. Funerals are for thise left behind, so just do the very best you can.

 

[theunknown]

As far as I'm aware the only person outside of the drafter and draftee (do these terms even exist?) of a will entitled to have full sight of it is the executor. I'm named as my mum's executor and I have her copy of her will. As it happens I'm also my mum's deputy (she's in a care home). If my mum didn't have dementia she presumably could show her copy of the will to whom ever she wanted; after all who would know who knew what was in it? But as her executor it's my responsibility to retain her privacy over the arrangements. When my mum made her will she may have chosen to share it with my twin sister, I don't know, but in my circumstances (as executor) I now have to keep it private. So I don't think it matters whether someone's a PoA or a deputy via the OPG, only the executor will see the original will when the person dies.

 

[DeMartin]

When I applied for deputyship for my mother the CoP asked if I had a copy of her will. I had found what I believe is a copy and this was forwarded to them. Of course I can only guess this is a current copy as her solicitor has the original.

 

[Kevinl]

The executor has no legal right to see a will before someone dies other than with the will makers consent.
If a solicitors shows you the will (without consent) they are breaking the law and their own code of practice and could be prosecuted and/or struck off for doing so. The testator can give anyone a copy of the will and is allowed to discuss it with who they want but no one has the legal right to see it without their consent.
K

 

[malengwa]

Mum passed now so I've tasked my brother, who we are pretty sure is executor, with making contact. One less thing for me to do.

 

[2jays]

My condolences. Hopefully your brother is in contact soon xxx

 

[Pete R]

If a solicitors shows you the will (without consent) they are breaking the law.........

What law are they breaking and who would prosecute?

 

[nitram]

If a solicitors shows you the will (without consent) they are breaking the law and their own code of practice and could be prosecuted and/or struck off for doing so.

As I earlier posted as far guidance is concerned it's the other way round.

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/c...closure-of-an-incapacitated-persons-will.page

Solicitors should act in the best interests of their clients.
An attorney acts as an agent for the incapacitated person and therefore can have access in order to ensure that the donor's wishes are carried out as far as possible. .
For instance if there are two assets and only one is a direct bequest this one should be the last to be sold to pay for care, the attorney needs this information so that they can follow the donor's financial wishes.