50% of occupational pension?

[JigJog]

Hello,

I'm trying to get my head around finances so that I get things right should OH need to go into care in the future. He will be self funding so I have no intention of involving LA.

I would need to split the joint account and transfer all bills to my name.

He would keep his state pension, his PIP and the rent from a property which he owns and rents out?

He wanted to move here 4 years ago when he was diagnosed with prostate cancer and we were told it had spread. It was tough to sell houses at the time, so having already sold my house (second marriage) in the hope of buying a house together, I decided to use my cash to buy this small house in my name, so that he could live in an area he wanted. He responded well to treatment for cancer only to be diagnosed with Dementia 6 months later. He wouldn't sell his house then, but just wanted to keep it for the rental income. So we are living in my house and he keeps the rental income from his house.

He also has two occupational pensions. One is paid monthly and the other has been taken as a lump sum. I'm sure I have read that I am allowed to keep 50% of his occupational pension. Is this just the one paid monthly or both?

All of my money went into this house and I gave up work at 60 to care for him, when I don't get any state pension until I'm 66.

I don't want to be accused of deprivation of assets but I don't want to leave myself in a financially precarious situation because of my ignorance.

Can anyone offer me any advice please?

JigJog x

 

[pamann]

Hello jigjog, if you are self funding, you will keep all of your pensions, also l think you will still get the attendance allowance, Scarlett knows all about this, PM her she can help you.

 

[nitram]

Agreed that you need not worry about the 50% occupation rule if self funding.

Unless you are proposing to use joint finances to pay for any residential care he may need and if his income from all sources is insufficient to meet the cost you should consider a Deferred Payment Agreement (DPA) if his house is not sold
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rt-whats-changing#deferred-payment-agreements

Has he made a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA)?

 

[JigJog]

Agreed that you need not worry about the 50% occupation rule if self funding.

Unless you are proposing to use joint finances to pay for any residential care he may need and if his income from all sources is insufficient to meet the cost you should consider a Deferred Payment Agreement (DPA) if his house is not sold
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rt-whats-changing#deferred-payment-agreements

Has he made a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA)?

Thanks both. Yes, LPA is in place.

 

[Scarlett123]

Happy to help. If you are self funding, and paying the fees yourself, or hubby is, then you don't have to forgo anything. You still get your State Pension, Private Pensions, Attendance Allowance or Disability Living Allowance, and then the fee is paid from that.

The 50% private pension contribution occurs if you are not self funding. I'll explain it here, though it doesn't apply to your situation, cos it might help others who are considering Care, but won't be completely self funding.

In John's case, he had less than £23,500, which is the bench mark figure, below which Social Services assist. You also forgo Attendance Allowance, but if you have Disability Living Allowance, you lose the care component, but keep the mobility element.

So, the Care Home, charged Social Services, who then charged John. He paid all his State Pension, plus half of his net private pension towards the cost, less about £25 a week "pocket money".

Because Social Services had deemed it necessary for him to have permanent care, the Home could only charge the Social Services figure, and couldn't impose a top up fee. My LA first tried to use the gross private pension figure, but fortunately I had spent several riveting evenings reading the 116 page CRAG report, and knew they were wrong.

xxx

 

[Shedrech]

Hi JigJog
just to say, remember to factor in annual increases in the fees - this year's for dad's home the increase was 10%

 

[Saffie]

As it is still strictly speaking your husband's income and not your's, do be careful regarding expenditure of you have any inkling at all that the LA just might be involved at some time in the future.
I was reprimanded for continuing to use our joint account, which mainly consisted of my husband's income as I have very little pension-wise, to pay the household utility bills and the LA didn't contribute until his capital fell to £18,000 rather than the usual £23,250. Despite him being a joint owner and self-funding at the time, they said he shouldn't have been contributing as he was no longer resident here.
As your husband has a house which could be sold if his capital is depleted, then you should hopefully not find yourself in this position.
Best wishes. It's a minefield isn't it!

 

[lemonjuice]

Hi JigJog
just to say, remember to factor in annual increases in the fees - this year's for dad's home the increase was 10%

Yes remember to factor in much bigger increases than normal cost of living. i was originally assuming increases would be in the region of 3-5% but they've never been that low.
Plus when they reach a certain point and have greater needs, the increase can be even greater -one year our increase was a whopping 27%! By next year the increase will be 50% since her entry currently 4 and a half years ago.

 

[Pete R]

He also has two occupational pensions. One is paid monthly and the other has been taken as a lump sum. I'm sure I have read that I am allowed to keep 50% of his occupational pension. Is this just the one paid monthly or both?

No you are not allowed to keep 50% of the occupational as a norm. It has to be in the best interest of your OH and at the discretion of both the LA and him/his PoA, so a conflict of interest for you and I do not mean that it any way suggesting you would withhold a good standard of care.

As Saffie says the money is your OH's, not yours. If his care is good and well funded then fine but if it his affecting his living standards you can be challenged. There is another view that the LA think you should get the 50% to maintain your lifestyle but it is not your decision alone to make.

 

[Spamar]

Jig jog, maybe confusing the fact that you will probably get 50% of occupational pension after his death?

 

[LYN T]

When my late Husband went into care he was self funding BUT I was left in no doubt by our LA that I was still only entitled to 50% of his occupational pension. I involved the LA because Pete had bonds which were not included in the financial assessment and I wanted that clarified. I transferred 50% of his pension income to my account but kept his state pension and the other half of his OP in his OWN bank account. I was left in no doubt by the LA that using ALL of his state pension and OP would involve investigations into deprivation of assets.

I'm not sure if this action was because Pete would have only been self funding for 6 months or so, or if that was specific to our own LA. By keeping his state pension and OP it allowed his contribution to last longer. I continued doing that even when Pete was awarded CHC Funding. Not sure if I've made myself clear with this post.

XX

 

[JigJog]

Hi JigJog
just to say, remember to factor in annual increases in the fees - this year's for dad's home the increase was 10%

Thanks Shedrech for this. 10% increase! I'll certainly need to factor annual increases in, for sure.

Thank you
JigJog x

 

[JigJog]

As it is still strictly speaking your husband's income and not your's, do be careful regarding expenditure of you have any inkling at all that the LA just might be involved at some time in the future.
I was reprimanded for continuing to use our joint account, which mainly consisted of my husband's income as I have very little pension-wise, to pay the household utility bills and the LA didn't contribute until his capital fell to £18,000 rather than the usual £23,250. Despite him being a joint owner and self-funding at the time, they said he shouldn't have been contributing as he was no longer resident here.
As your husband has a house which could be sold if his capital is depleted, then you should hopefully not find yourself in this position.
Best wishes. It's a minefield isn't it!

Saffie, thank you so much for reminding me of this. I remember reading your posts about this now. It is a minefield and it's for this reason that I'm trying to find answers to my questions well in advance. Thank you.
JigJog x

 

[JigJog]

Yes remember to factor in much bigger increases than normal cost of living. i was originally assuming increases would be in the region of 3-5% but they've never been that low.
Plus when they reach a certain point and have greater needs, the increase can be even greater -one year our increase was a whopping 27%! By next year the increase will be 50% since her entry currently 4 and a half years ago.

Oh wow lemonjuice. 50% increase over 4 and a half years. Lots to factor in there.
Many thanks
JigJog x

 

[JigJog]

No you are not allowed to keep 50% of the occupational as a norm. It has to be in the best interest of your OH and at the discretion of both the LA and him/his PoA, so a conflict of interest for you and I do not mean that it any way suggesting you would withhold a good standard of care.

As Saffie says the money is your OH's, not yours. If his care is good and well funded then fine but if it his affecting his living standards you can be challenged. There is another view that the LA think you should get the 50% to maintain your lifestyle but it is not your decision alone to make.

Thanks Pete for taking the time to reply. OH began giving me 50% of his occupational pension when I had to give up work to look after him. I had no other income at the time. This is why I was wondering if it could continue in the future.

He will always get a great standard of care. I would never have put all my money into buying a house for us in a village I knew he wanted to live in otherwise. Nor would I have given up a good job and contributions to my own pension to care for him, if I hadn't had the purest of motives.

I often read posts like Saffie's where lessons have been learned the hard way and folks are kind enough to pass on their experiences.

I am just trying to find answers to my questions and learn more, in the hope that I can get things right and as with most folks at this stage, it all comes at a time of little sleep and most stress. It's hard to even think clearly when you're going through it, but I'll get there.

JigJog x

 

[JigJog]

When my late Husband went into care he was self funding BUT I was left in no doubt by our LA that I was still only entitled to 50% of his occupational pension. I involved the LA because Pete had bonds which were not included in the financial assessment and I wanted that clarified. I transferred 50% of his pension income to my account but kept his state pension and the other half of his OP in his OWN bank account. I was left in no doubt by the LA that using ALL of his state pension and OP would involve investigations into deprivation of assets.

I'm not sure if this action was because Pete would have only been self funding for 6 months or so, or if that was specific to our own LA. By keeping his state pension and OP it allowed his contribution to last longer. I continued doing that even when Pete was awarded CHC Funding. Not sure if I've made myself clear with this post.

XX

You have Lyn, thank you. This was exactly what I was looking for. Perhaps you have posted on this topic before or someone else with very similar experiences. I knew I'd read things along these lines and just needed some clarity. Really grateful for your help.
Thank you!
JigJog x