Possibility of my mum moving in with my daughter & her young family.

[Beenie]

I have been a carer for my great uncle for 5 years now the last 18 months he has lived with me as he wasn't safe on his own. The first year was as I had expected, hard work but worth the effort he flourished and actually improved! But my children are 19 and 23, I could never have coped if they had been younger. To keep him well, Happy, safe and healthy our house has had to revolve around him. The last 6 months have become even harder, and today I feel so down and miserable. Due to his decline in the last few months, we have a whole bank holiday weekend ahead of us with good weather on the way, and it will be spent indoors with all windows and doors closed, the fire will be on he feels so cold all the time and hates drafts, we can't go out as he has to be close to a toilet and is having trouble with his feet so can't walk far. I can't have a lie in as he gets up early and can't be left.
We can't have friends around as he can't cope with to much noise or to much talking!
I understand exactly how your daughter feels, and understand that your mum will most probably not be anything like my uncle as everyone is different, but please get her to rethink her decision, for the first time today I felt real resentment towards my uncle because of the weekend ahead, he accused me of taking his comb, and for the first time I snapped and argued, something I know I mustn't do.
I now feel guilt for snapping and sadness that I now know it's time to put him into a care home, as I don't want my great memories of him to be marred by resentment.
Sorry to be such a grump, I hope you come to the right decision for your mum and yourselves xx

 

[Pickle20]

As a 27 year old with a grandfather with mixed dementia (vascular and Alzheimer's) I can truly understand we're your daughter is coming from - she truly has her Nans best interest at heart - but she really needs to think about herself and her own family. I have daughter also 4 years old, she gets very sensitive and easily picks up the vibes that go on especially when things are not well with my nan and grandad! If they have a good relationship now this may change if she is living with them! Also it would be hard for her nan to relax with young children around which may cause more anxiety and agitation!

 

[jaymor]

I too am thinking it is not a good idea. There are so many parts of dementia that are not for young children to see. Your daughter has two small children, exhausting and time consuming, they need their Mammy. How will she cope when Nan starts to not sleep at night, will she be up to getting up many times a night, maybe cleaning up after Nan because she has soiled herself and the carpet, walls etc.

As dementia progresses in many cases the sufferer becomes more demanding and still want to go out on their own. Aggression is another part of dementia and young children should not see this. Not all of these 'nasties' might occur but some surely will. It is hard to be a carer for someone with dementia when there is just the carer and cared for but having a young family too will be extremely difficult.

Family time will be difficult too. Your daughter is wonderful to suggest she does the care but having cared for my husband for 7 years it is certainly not something I would contemplate taking on with a young family.

Take care,

Jay

 

[Mother goose]

Thank you all so much for your kind replies, to my post.
We only live up the road from our daughter & her family, so we see them almost every day. My daughter & her husband are still discussing if, they will go ahead. I had a long chat with her today & told her all the negatives.

My mum can go to day centre, mon, tues & wed, from 10.30 to 3.30. That could give my daughter a break, on those days & time with her 2 children. I could take my mum out shopping on the thursday, to give her another break. On the friday, I could sit in with my mum, so my daughter can go out with her 2 children.

My husband said we could have my mum stay at our house at weekends, to give them time together as a family. As I'm just up the road, my daughter only has to ring me & I'd go to her straight away, if she needed a break.
I really don't know if that would work, it's such a huge decision & commitment.
My daughter was wondering if they decided against having my mum move in with them, could she be a carer & go in to my mum's home.

 

[marsaday]

I'm in a bit of a hurry but I have to agree with what the others have said-it's not a good idea. I also wanted to add that having her to yours at the weekend may not be a goer as it is very confusing for a sufferer to have a change in environment.

 

[southlucia]

My daughter was wondering if they decided against having my mum move in with them, could she be a carer & go in to my mum's home.

There isn't anything stopping your daughter from doing that. I did notice that you initially mentioned about your daughter becoming a 'paid carer'. In that situation she wouldn't be paid for caring for her grandmother in her own home.

 

[Witzend]

Quite apart from anything else, babies and dementia can be a worrying mix. We were living in the Middle East when I had my first and since the local hospital was dire I came home to have her and stayed with my folks for six weeks afterwards.

My granny, who had ( as we thought) not-too-bad dementia, was also staying there at the time. We did not foresee any problems, but she started to think the baby was hers and what was 'that girl!' (me) doing with her. At the same time she started wandering at night, knocking on neighbours' doors at 2 am and asking them to drive her to Scotland. My poor mother was on constant tenterhooks and we had to jam a chair under my bedroom door in case her nightly wanderings included taking 'her' baby and dropping her, or worse. But before all this none of us had imagined that there would really be any problem. I had always had a fantastic relationship with my granny, but suddenly I was just 'that girl' who was also stealing her nightdresses as well as muscling in on 'her' baby.

 

[Linbrusco]

Mum is 73, has AD and my parents live behind us.
Even that can be exhausting, let alone Mum (& Dad) living with us.

I think all the practicalities have been thought of, but it's the middle of the night scenarios.
Children take sick and need your daughter & SIL, meanwhile Nan has woken wanting the loo, or worse... or has decided its time to get up and have breakfast.
Could they cope with broken sleep with children and getting up to Nan?

 

[Delphie]

My mum never lived with us, but even then the unpredictable nature of dementia was mentally utterly exhausting for me. Forget plans and routines, with dementia things can and do turn on a sixpence. I once arrived to find her armed with a massive bread knife because she was convinced my husband was on his way to kill her, she often became verbally aggressive towards me and my sons (who she adored pre dementia), things seen on tv became real to her, she thought there were strangers in her kitchen and wardrobes, the list is long and it was impossible to predict her moods and what was coming next. There is absolutely no way we could've coped with all that under our own roof. Unthinkable, and that's before I factor small children into the scenario.

Not every dementia sufferer is like my mum if course, but the unpredictable nature of the disease is a common factor, and that and young families are not a good mix.

 

[Nebiroth]

Thank you all so much for your kind replies, to my post.
We only live up the road from our daughter & her family, so we see them almost every day. My daughter & her husband are still discussing if, they will go ahead. I had a long chat with her today & told her all the negatives.

My mum can go to day centre, mon, tues & wed, from 10.30 to 3.30. That could give my daughter a break, on those days & time with her 2 children. I could take my mum out shopping on the thursday, to give her another break. On the friday, I could sit in with my mum, so my daughter can go out with her 2 children.

My husband said we could have my mum stay at our house at weekends, to give them time together as a family. As I'm just up the road, my daughter only has to ring me & I'd go to her straight away, if she needed a break.
I really don't know if that would work, it's such a huge decision & commitment.
My daughter was wondering if they decided against having my mum move in with them, could she be a carer & go in to my mum's home.

This sounds fine in theory but in practise it could and probably would be very difficult. Your mum might well refuse to go to day care - many do, for a variety of reasons - they think there is nothing wrong and see no reason to go, they don;t like being around old people or the activities or in many cases become very insecure and cannot cope with the change in place and routine, or being away from the primary carer (this is called separation anxiety and it works in exactly the same way that toddlers 'cling' to mum) and are only able to cope if they are at home..being looked after.

The same applies to your mum coming to you, most people with dementia eventually cope very poorly with changes in their routines or going to different places and I forsee a huge amount of stress involved in this.

Sadly, your mum can only get worse, this is the nature of dementia.

I don't wish to sound rude but I honestly think this is a very bad idea that is just not practical on so many levels.

If nothing else there is the very real possibility of your mum developing behavior changes and becoming verbally or physically agressive or violent and this could all happen in a household with very young children present with the next few years if not sooner. This is totally unpredictable, no one can say if it will happen or when but it is a distinct possibility.

 

[Nebiroth]

There isn't anything stopping your daughter from doing that. I did notice that you initially mentioned about your daughter becoming a 'paid carer'. In that situation she wouldn't be paid for caring for her grandmother in her own home.

A good point. IIRC, a family member cannot act as a paid carer if they live with the person they care for.

Outisd eof that there are legal considerations - essentially if your daughter is a paid carer then she in essence becomes an employee which involves all sorts of tax and health & safety issues.

It is certainly not as simple as your mum just giving your daughter money each week. Any such arrangement would attract the eventually attentions of the tax office, because it is plainly not gifts.

 

[Boredhousewife]

I'm sorry but I think your daughter and her husband have thought of this solely from the money angle. And they will fail with serious consequences. You having your mum at weekends will mean they can't get the full allowance from the government anyway, and if she thinks she can be a paid carer she will need to be trained, registered, be monirored and audited, including financically. She can't just accept a few pounds a week to have your mum stay over, or to go to your mum's house and do the washing. It has to be done all above board and legal. It's a lot of work for very little money even when you take into account the council tax reduction etc. Even if they keep all your Mum's penison money for expenses and charge her rent and board.
From experience with my own Mum over Christmas, trying to mix demanding kids with housework, cooking, shopping etc and a mum with dementia just does not work. My Mum couldn't understand the amount of time and attention I had to spend on my kids, the pets, the house, my partner, my job. (2 hours an evening, cleaning) She kept asking when they were all going home! After 3 days she threw a right wobbler and was admitted to the A&E where we spent Christmas day. If it had been a school day or something I wold have had to chose between my kids welfare and my Mothers. Please don't let your daughter do this to her family, those kids and her husband are her priority, sad as it is.

It was horrible for my Mum, too. She couldn't stand the noise, disruption, chaos. Night times were terrible as she insisted on staying up late and it was a fight to get her to bed before 1am, when my partner had to be up for work at 6. You might be able to take your mum out shopping for a couple of hours, but what is your daughter goign to do with her for the other 22 hours of the day? I thought I could just treat Mum like child number 3. But that was absolutely not what she wanted and she coped with it as badly as I did. Christmas mornign she pretended my kids had poisoned her. Possibly to get them taken away so she coudl have me to herself, possibly just to punish me for not paying her enough atention. People with dementia are often able to stay lucid for an hour or so for a visit in their own familiar home where they feel safe or perk up with a half hour trip to the park but pretty soon they can't maintain that and become confused, angry, and sometimes violent. I implore you to put your vote in as a NO. Why do you not play a more active role in your mother's care?

 

[dottyd]

Have you and your daughter read keeper. It's an excellent book.

This is not a good idea for all the above reasons.

My DIL offered to be my mums paid carer . Going to her house every day and I turned her down flat.

The first time ger little boy was I'll mum would have been left high and dry
As much as DIL loves my. Mum she was doing it as a way to get an income around her per school child.

I'm not saying this is the case with your daughter. Not at all, but your mums needsmust come first and if your mum has a poorly day she will not be happy having young children crying, laughing, shrieking, jumping, running round the house etc.

The thing about being a grandparent or g- grandparent is that we can give them back . Not live with them!

 

[Boldredrosie]

My son and I have lived with my parents since he was 3. He and my mum are very much alike and when he was little before Ma's dementia gathered a real head of speed they were best of friends and would often gang up against me, in quite a sweet sort of pincer movement.

He's now 15 and notwithstanding the usual teenage vileness today he told his grandmother to drop dead, told me I was a moron and hoped I'd die while driving to the shops. In his less florid moments he looks at me and says, "I wouldn't mind her being mad if she thought there were leprechauns in the house." He has not had a friend over to our house in the last seven years.

 

[Mother goose]

Thank you for your reply, Boredhousewife.
I do play an active role in my mother's care. I ring her several times a day, go into her every day, provide her dinners & take them in with her medication. I take her to day centre, once or twice a week. I take her shopping every week & arrange her hair apps. I need to constantly ring her, to get her out of bed, or go into her, so she attends her app.

I arrange her GP & memory clinic apps & take her every time. Her GP is half an hours drive & the memory clinic is a 2 hours round trip. I do some of her cleaning, as home help goes in an hour & a half, once a week. I collect her on a sunday, every wk & she comes to us for dinner from 6pm to 10pm, then take her home. We take her out to restaurants for dinner, to theatres & she is included in family get togethers, on my husbands side, as we live close by to them all.

My husband is a great help to me, my mum asked him a long time ago to look after her bank acc etc. He pays all her bills, does any jobs that are needed in her home, looks after her bungalow which is now rented out. When she was driving & had a serious accident, we obviously went straight to where it happened. Her car was a write off, thankfully she was ok & not injured & no one else involved. Following day, he sorted out her insurance, found her another car, took her to different garages to test drive cars. Even went in the cars, as she didnt want to go on her own. At the time she was ok to drive, or so we thought. When her GP said, she had to stop driving, he organised everything for her, sold her 2nd car & sorted out the insurance etc.
So as you can see we both do a lot for my mum & my daughter also wanted to help her.












I

I'm sorry but I think your daughter and her husband have thought of this solely from the money angle. And they will fail with serious consequences. You having your mum at weekends will mean they can't get the full allowance from the government anyway, and if she thinks she can be a paid carer she will need to be trained, registered, be monirored and audited, including financically. She can't just accept a few pounds a week to have your mum stay over, or to go to your mum's house and do the washing. It has to be done all above board and legal. It's a lot of work for very little money even when you take into account the council tax reduction etc. Even if they keep all your Mum's penison money for expenses and charge her rent and board.
From experience with my own Mum over Christmas, trying to mix demanding kids with housework, cooking, shopping etc and a mum with dementia just does not work. My Mum couldn't understand the amount of time and attention I had to spend on my kids, the pets, the house, my partner, my job. (2 hours an evening, cleaning) She kept asking when they were all going home! After 3 days she threw a right wobbler and was admitted to the A&E where we spent Christmas day. If it had been a school day or something I wold have had to chose between my kids welfare and my Mothers. Please don't let your daughter do this to her family, those kids and her husband are her priority, sad as it is.

It was horrible for my Mum, too. She couldn't stand the noise, disruption, chaos. Night times were terrible as she insisted on staying up late and it was a fight to get her to bed before 1am, when my partner had to be up for work at 6. You might be able to take your mum out shopping for a couple of hours, but what is your daughter goign to do with her for the other 22 hours of the day? I thought I could just treat Mum like child number 3. But that was absolutely not what she wanted and she coped with it as badly as I did. Christmas mornign she pretended my kids had poisoned her. Possibly to get them taken away so she coudl have me to herself, possibly just to punish me for not paying her enough atention. People with dementia are often able to stay lucid for an hour or so for a visit in their own familiar home where they feel safe or perk up with a half hour trip to the park but pretty soon they can't maintain that and become confused, angry, and sometimes violent. I implore you to put your vote in as a NO. Why do you not play a more active role in your mother's care?

 

[Mother goose]

I also work one day a week, looking after a families 3 young children. I collect my 4 yr old granddaughter from playschool, look after my daughter's baby if she has a DRs app or needs to go anywhere. I have several health problems, one being an immune condition, where stress can make it worse. I have hospital apps for myself, as well as my Mum's. I have our home & of course my husband to be there for too.

 

[marsaday]

Oh Boldrosie-you made me laugh;-) I have a 15 yr old boy (the youngest and used to be my baby) but he's monsyllabic atm and been in spots of bother too but what your son said to you... Well, not exactly funny but so typical of a teenager. They can be so cruel!
To boot, I've fallen out with my grown up daughter (late 20's) over money- so it never ends-and I'm feeling a bit down but it's great to know I'm not the only one being squeezed into the sandwich that is our parents and kids.

 

[Mother goose]

Thank you, Dottyd, for your message. I haven't heard of that book, but I will look for it. It's good to get all these replies & advice, you learn more as you go on.

Have you and your daughter read keeper. It's an excellent book.

This is not a good idea for all the above reasons.

My DIL offered to be my mums paid carer . Going to her house every day and I turned her down flat.

The first time ger little boy was I'll mum would have been left high and dry
As much as DIL loves my. Mum she was doing it as a way to get an income around her per school child.

I'm not saying this is the case with your daughter. Not at all, but your mums needsmust come first and if your mum has a poorly day she will not be happy having young children crying, laughing, shrieking, jumping, running round the house etc.

The thing about being a grandparent or g- grandparent is that we can give them back . Not live with them!

 

[Mother goose]

Thank you, Nebiroth, Boldrosie & Marsaday for all your comments & helpful advice. This
is certainly a good website for families who have parents or other family members, with Alzheimers.

 

[CollegeGirl]

Mother Goose, I don't know how you do it, I take my hat off to you. Your lovely daughter obviously takes after you and has the same hard-working ethics you do.

I'm sorry we have all seemed to pour cold water on your daughter's plans, and hope that you can see that it's only because of our concern at the thought of a young mother taking on this huge commitment, with the impact that it will have not only on her but her very young children.

Whatever you all decide to do, I would like to wish you the very best of luck and hope that everything works out for you all. Your mum is a very lucky lady to have such a loving and determined family surrounding her!

xxx