Appointee - opening an account in my mum's name?

[cilla89]

Can anyone help with opening a bank or building society account in my mum's name, to be managed by me?

I am in the process of becoming an appointee,to manage her DWP benefits income only. I've contacted the Nationwide as I've banked with them for years, but no-one there seems to have any idea about appointeeship, it seems the only thing they know about is opening an account when you have power of attorney.

Despite citing the British Bankers Association Helpguide, "Banking for People who lack capacity to make decisions" which sets out about appointees, I'm just hitting a brick wall, being advised to open a joint account(!) or get power of attorney (now no longer possible without going through the Court of Protection).

Has anyone who is an appointee managed to open a bank account in their relative's name, managed by them - and if so, with whom? I'm looking for an internet account so I can manage it on line.

Thanks,

Cilla

 

[MissisT]

Hi cilla89
How/where are your Mum's benefits paid at the moment?

I don't think you can do what you are trying to do without a POA but I can't see why you can't open an account in your name + on behalf of your Mum's name (so Mrs C Bloggs on behalf of Mrs M Bloggs). Then I would think, on your instruction as your Mum's appointee, the DWP will pay the benefits into that account.

I could well be wrong but it makes sense to me.

Teresa x

 

[Contrary Mary]

Hello Cilla89 and welcome to TP.

I'm not sure what the BBA mean by "appointee". As far as I am aware, not having done it, it would be straightforward to manage benefits and the DWP would make you "appointee". However, for banks the ideal is a POA (which you say cannot be done now)and without it nothing can be done without, as you say, going through the COP. Hopefully others who have been in this position will be along to help.

Mary

 

[Marianne]

I had to open an account to manage everything for my father but I had to present a sealed copy of the PoA to the bank before the bank would open the account. I also had to send sealed copies to his pension companies and the DWP before they would pay into the new account which was in my name acting on behalf of my father.

 

[Nebiroth]

Why not open a specific account in your name and arrange for your mum's benefits to be paid into that? All you need to do is to keep records of what you spend on your mum's behalf.

If you are unsure, then ask the DWP for further advice.

I think that opening and managing a bank account in someone else's name will be virtually impossible without a full power of attorney.

 

[jenniferpa]

I believe that Nebiroth is correct in the appropriate way to do this, odd as it may seem. You open an account in your own name and use is just for your mother's pension and or benefits.

There should be something on the DWP website about this - let me see if I can find it.

OK: this document (which despite the strange link is coming from the DWP website) http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...39WZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHqe7hpQAkCKBPefAl1r952dUIcjQ

says

"The account into which benefits and pensions are paid should be in the
appointee’s name only."

 

[gigi]

Having just gone through a review of appointeeship for my husband's pension etc..I think that DWP would be more than happy to accept an account in the appointee's name into which mum's pension/benefits are paid.

Just make sure you can account for spending from that account.

DWP just want to ensure that you're not taking the money for yourself.

I have EPA for my husband but it was meaningless with DWP and the matter of appointeeship..2 different areas....

Love xx

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?t=29105..a link to my thread about appointeeship

 

[JPG1]

Nebiroth is absolutely correct. Open a bank account in your own name - the bank does not need to know where money will be coming from.

Once the DWP confirms in writing to you your appointment as Appointee, the DWP will ask you where you want your Mum's benefits to be paid - and you give the DWP the new account details. Or if the DWP doesn't ask you, you just need to tell the DWP that from now on all payments are to be made to .... account details.

And of course you will need to keep the usual bank statements showing what you have done with your Mum's benefits.

Easy! Good luck, and hope it's as easy for you too.

 

[cilla89]

Thank you all for the comments/experiences. It looks like I will need to open an account in my name, to operate on my mum's behalf. I hope I will able to have something on the account like Mrs... on behalf of Mrs..... Anyone know if this is do-able?

The particular problem for me is that we now live in France and our "worldwide income" is taxed here. We are on pensions ourselves and our income is small. But we have to declare all income and details of bank accounts to the french tax authorities. Opening an account in my name to receive my mum's pension would look like I was receiving another regular pension. We (you are taxed as a couple in France) could be seen to be liable to tax, not only on any savings interest that may accumulate in the account opened for my mum, but on the pension income itself.

I had read the BBA leaflet as meaning appointee status would let me open a bank account in my mum's name - but now it seems less clear.

Thanks again for your help - any further suggestions appreciated.

Cilla

 

[MissisT]

Hi again Cilla
I think the fact that you live in France may make things more complicated Can't help at all with that side of things I'm afraid.
Teresa x

 

[Nebiroth]

I don't know about the naming of bank accounts.

As regards income, then I would think that this is actually not your income at all. It is your mother's, but held by yourself.

My only suggestion would be to contact the French tax authorities and ask for a clarification before going ahead with opening the account, etc. Your situation cannot be unique, in that France must have made similar arrangements possible for it's own citizens. There is the added complication that the payments etc are being made by the British authorities. There may beed to be communication between the British DWP and French tax office...(!)

I can appreciate your situation is complex, however, in the modern world of people moving around from country to country, it cannot be unique!

I am guessing that the fact that it is all happening within the EU will help matters.

 

[lyncubin26]

Hi Cilla89,

I don't know if this will help you but I am also in the process of becoming an appointee for my Mum and I have enquired at the HSBC bank.

I currently hold a bank account with them which I manage online and therefore thought that it would be easier for me to open another current account in my name to have Mum's benefits paid into.

The very helpful Customer Services Advisor informed me that I would need to open an appointee bank account which has very strict procedures to follow before this can be opened. The DWP have to provide a form called 'BF57' which verifies you have been deemed as a siutable appointee and then a basic bank account can be opened.

The account must have less than £2000 at all times and if it reaches this amount or above the account has to be closed an an order has to be sought from the court of protection. Also, clear records must be kept to account for all of the money spent.

Hope this helps, it was all new to me aswell; however, feel i understand it a bit better after my trip to the bank!

 

[LilyoftheValley]

My father died 11 months ago. Mum has had to go into a care home. He was Mum's main carer and like many older couples all their finances were dealt with through his bank account. I mean it was in his sole name. There is no LPA or EPA in relation to my mother. I will be applying to the Court of Protection. There is dissension between me and my two sisters over Mum's whole circumstances and decisions on her .

In the months following Dad's death, the Social Services made me Mum's appointee. Even though I told them my sisters would not agree. They determined as I was living the nearest to Mum they could make that decision. They advised me to open an account in my name for the sole purpose of Mum's finances. Into this the DWP pay Mum's pension and pension credit. I have to account for all income and expenditure. As I also manage this account on line, I have "nick named" it Mum's account.

The reasons I was given is that Social Services and DWP have to deal with someone who has sufficient mental capacity and cannot wait for the full court of protection arrangements to be put in place. I have not had any problems in dealing with DWP or Bedfordshire Social Services - they have all been very helpful.

 

[Mirium]

Social security form B57

How do I get the SS to issue me a B57 form please?

 

[jenniferpa]

Mirium could you perhaps be a bit more specific about what a B57 form is?

 

[nitram]

B57 = BF57 ?

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/app-02.pdf

Application is made on a BF56
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/app-01.pdf

The DWP then issue a BF57

All that can be done is to ask the DWP why there is a delay and take it from there.

 

[weestar]

Mirium could you perhaps be a bit more specific about what a B57 form is?

A bf57 would have been issued at the visit when you where made the appointee. It outlines your responsibly to act and what you have to do. See the dwp website.

 

[topov]

Becoming an Appointee

I have just registered as I did a google to find "opening appointee current account"
This is because the current Appointee (Northamptonshire Council) are going to start charging for Appointee and Deputy services for there "customers", due to a £22m shortfall in gov. funding (we all know why....bank bailouts)

It took me an age to track down the current Appointee, due to change of address which we were not aware of...

I have read with interest all the comments and have downloaded BF56 form to fill in and it does state open account in your own name...

It is all very confusing because banks want the "proof" which I think you get as a result of sending in BF56 (giving bank account details) before the bank will open an account

I went to Halifax on 9th June 2012
The Customer Rep started talking about POA.....

In the meantime, the Council want to know the bank account details to "I will send our letter of relinquishment to The Pension Service."

So basically, I am going to open an account in my name and keep everything separate.

Thanks, for all the help on this site (it is now in my favs)

 

[cantthinkofname]

A very complex problem

This is my first post and, as the title suggests, it may be a little complicated.
Will attempt to make it as succinct as possible but I really am very much in need
of advice and soon....

Sibling was looking after mum (diagnosed with AD). Sibling's care was becoming
increasingly questionable (mum's GP and nurse had "reservations") due to sibling's
drinking and general behaviour (not administering mum's medication etc). Earlier this year I started looking after mum in my flat.

As a result of this I am now in severe financial trouble due to my housing benefit having been stopped (couldn't prove my mother's income so council cancelled) and have a possession order against me next month. I myself am not in the best of health but my mind works, am totally sober and do not have a criminal record (unlike my sibling).

Needless to say me and my sibling are not on the best of terms.

Now, this is where it gets more complicated....

My mother was living overseas and her pensions and savings are abroad as a result.
She is fine with me looking after her and her affairs but, of course, I've had to explain to her that because of her memory problems (I try to keep the full implications of her diagnosis from her due to mood swings), it is not as simple as me just taking control of her affairs. I've explained on more than one occasion that I would have to seek a legal route.

I have virtually no money to go down a legal route (although understanding relatives overseas have chipped in very kindly) and the process could take a long time.

I was offered the option of appointeeship by someone from the council. However the full implications of this were not explained to me at the time. The problem I have with this is that whoever is appointed, they could veto certain things which I believe are absolutely necessary - sorting out the ownership of the house she was living in and repairs being carried out on that house.

Very briefly the house she lived in (abroad) is due to be transferred to the family. Papers are in a solicitor's office, ready to be signed. I do not stand to gain at the expense of other family members because my father died without making a will; mum would get the majority of the house and me and my sibling would get the rest divided and I'm fine with that, other than my sibling is not very responsible or honest. My sibling, as much as I do see eye to eye with them, shouldn't be entitled to less than me.

Reason why house is not owned by my family?
Dad believed he bought a house but actually bought a strip of land - not the *actual* house.

The 'owners' are OK with transferring the property, by the way....

Anyway, point being is that if I had a cast iron guarantee that appointeeship would mean that ownership and repairs to the house would be sorted out, I'd go for it (assuming also that my rent arrears would be paid, of course). My mother is also not happy with the idea of appointeeship.

Simply, I cannot find an affordable legal way of looking after my mother's affairs, mostly which are overseas. And time is running out as regards the flat that we now live in.

 

[jenniferpa]

Hi cantthinkofname (and I totally understand where you are coming from with that) and welcome to Talking Point.

I'm wondering if in fact when the person from the council mentioned appointeeship they were in fact talking about becoming a deputy? Becoming an appointee ONLY allows you deal with a person's state benefits such as pensions: it gives you no power over anything else such as property. And in fact the council is not responsible for giving you appointeeship - that would be down to the DWP.

If this is the case, that you are talking about deputyship, just let me know and we can start a new thread for you. (Or, of course, you can start your own).

I should however point out that even with deputyship, you probably wouldn't be able to manage your mother's overseas affairs - you would have to apply to the courts of the country in question to do this.