Agency Carers falsifying hours

[117katie]

In my humble opinion, I agree with your two reasons, CraigC, for seeing more ethnic minorities working in elderly care in the UK.

The respect that we, as a nation, show the elderly of our world has diminished in recent years, and that is one of the reasons, I feel, that we all have to work so hard, just to achieve a standard that we would be proud to provide to our own family members. It is true that the culture in the countries of origin of many of those working here enables that respect to grow, whereas in our country it is not very evident today.

In my own experience - very often it is the very cultural differences that create a barrier for some of our elderly people. I know we all have our own experiences, some good, and some less good. If only we could all experience the good!

Like you, I feel that the agencies themselves must bear the responsibility for attracting people who really care into the profession, and if a decent rate of pay is the prime mover in attracting the right people, then so be it. Pay a decent wage, Agencies, please. A couple of the homes we visited recently recruit from one country and one country only. When we asked why it was so, we were told “it’s so much easier for us, because we only have to contact one agency”.

My final thought is just that – regardless of where you happened to be born – if you decide to work in any sphere, then the standard of work you personally provide has to be up to the required standard for the job. I was a junior once, a trainee, on probation, learning on the job, and if I had not met the required standard, then I would have been despatched elsewhere. That is something I often don’t see: the supervision and training being carried through.

Cheerio for now
KATIE

 

[Margarita]

A lot of people come from countries were the elderly are still held in respect and great regard. Often in their culture the elderly are cared for and respected and it is seen as a privalage and not just a duty.

yes good point , as my daughter been going on about something she read in the papers about circle of life how people from black community abroad , care for they elderly people more because they perceive life as a circle that your a baby then you became elderly go back to being a baby , so when they elderly need caring it come natural for them to just care for them , because of they belief in the circle of life .

I tried to argue the point that not all elderly people, became mental incapably of caring from themselves just because they elderly , she came back with statistics, also how now the the body living longer then the brain .

Her point , which I call a theory

was is if I could perceive it like the circle of life, in what is happing to my mother , it be more easy for me to except what is happening with my mother , so making my caring role more easy for me, also it would come natural to us all the in west to care for are elderly .

 

[jenniferpa]

While I appreciate the points that people are making, I don't think you can attribute all the failings of the western care system to cultural bias. We have enough guilt to go around, without thinking "oh well, I'd be better at this if I'd been raised with different cultural norms". There are several cultures out there where respect for human life is not what it might be, and at least one I can think of where the tradition was to abandon the halt and the lame. Let's not also forget - when people talk about respect for their elders in most countries "elders" have been people in their 60s,70s and 80s. Improved health care means that people live longer, but not necessarily in better health.

 

[Margarita]

We have enough guilt to go around,

what guilt got to do with it ? we just sharing .

I don't think you can attribute all the failings of the western care system to cultural bias.

we not , well I am not nor my daughter her friend was only doing an essay for her degree in sociology she just told me , read it some where Just Theory , so she shared it with me .

also have been openly talking about putting mum in care home next year, No one can make anyone feel guilt unless they feel it themselves .


she going to photo cope it for me , as I find it interesting , we can think and share and ask why !

 

[117katie]

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly was not attributing the failings of the western care system to cultural bias. Nor was I for one moment wishing to suggest that anyone should think "oh well, I'd be better at this if I'd been raised with different cultural norms".

However, there are enormous cultural differences between some of the people we are caring about, called our Loved Ones as far as I'm concerned, and some of the people caring for them. Each of us has our own cultural norms, and they change only with learning, living, and experience. And even more so, if we are lucky enough, to have experienced living in other cultures, as you and I have done. That only comes with age and experience.

Elder means "older than" especially within the family structure - so that may be someone in their 30s, if you are in your 20s, or in their 40s if you are in your 20s or 30s. All I was meaning was that we no longer have what we in the UK used to call respect and care for our older persons, or Golden Oldies as I don't mind calling myself and my Golden Oldies.

Let me give you an example, a personal one, but nevertheless a very important example to me of how the word "old" or "older" means different things to different people: my brother was born disabled and remained disabled until the day he died at the age of 57. One day, aged about 30-ish, he had a fall when out in the street, and some of our younger persons came and shouted at him "what are you doing down there OLD MAN". He replied "I'm just trying to get up". Did they help him to get up? No. They didn't.

I have never forgotten that to this day, many years later.

Yes, it is true that we are mostly living longer, because of improved diets, and ways of life, and also the medical care that - if we are lucky - we may have access to. I am happy that is the case. There are those who accuse us of being a burden on society - not my view! There are those who forget that most of us Golden Oldies worked each and every day required of us, paid our national insurance contributions and our taxes. Which we were given to understand would be just that "insurance" for the day when we might need to call for support. But it doesn't always work out like that ...

Today in the journal of the company I used to work for, there was an article entitled "Live Longer and Get More For The Money You Paid into Your Pension Scheme" - slightly tongue in cheek, but very very to the point.

KATIE

 

[jenniferpa]

I appreciate that you were sharing - this is just my take on it. And as for guilt - well that can be caused by everything and anything.

 

[117katie]

Jennifer

You say "... And as for guilt - well that can be caused by everything and anything."

That is being a bit hard, isn't it, Jennifer?

Margarita: I understood that you were sharing; and I understood what you meant about guilt. And I think that Jennifer's remark was a bit hard on you.

Just the way it came over to me.

KATIE

 

[jenniferpa]

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly was not attributing the failings of the western care system to cultural bias. Nor was I for one moment wishing to suggest that anyone should think "oh well, I'd be better at this if I'd been raised with different cultural norms".

However, there are enormous cultural differences between some of the people we are caring about, called our Loved Ones as far as I'm concerned, and some of the people caring for them. Each of us has our own cultural norms, and they change only with learning, living, and experience. And even more so, if we are lucky enough, to have experienced living in other cultures, as you and I have done. That only comes with age and experience.

Elder means "older than" especially within the family structure - so that may be someone in their 30s, if you are in your 20s, or in their 40s if you are in your 20s or 30s. All I was meaning was that we no longer have what we in the UK used to call respect and care for our older persons, or Golden Oldies as I don't mind calling myself and my Golden Oldies.

Let me give you an example, a personal one, but nevertheless a very important example to me of how the word "old" or "older" means different things to different people: my brother was born disabled and remained disabled until the day he died at the age of 57. One day, aged about 30-ish, he had a fall when out in the street, and some of our younger persons came and shouted at him "what are you doing down there OLD MAN". He replied "I'm just trying to get up". Did they help him to get up? No. They didn't.

I have never forgotten that to this day, many years later.

Yes, it is true that we are mostly living longer, because of improved diets, and ways of life, and also the medical care that - if we are lucky - we may have access to. I am happy that is the case. There are those who accuse us of being a burden on society - not my view! There are those who forget that most of us Golden Oldies worked each and every day required of us, paid our national insurance contributions and our taxes. Which we were given to understand would be just that "insurance" for the day when we might need to call for support. But it doesn't always work out like that ...

Today in the journal of the company I used to work for, there was an article entitled "Live Longer and Get More For The Money You Paid into Your Pension Scheme" - slightly tongue in cheek, but very very to the point.

KATIE

I'm sorry - I must be being particularly obtuse... and your point is?

 

[Sunlight]

I had a sitting service whereby someone was supposed to come in 3 times a week for 2 hours to sit with my mother. This woman would turn up late and leave early - sometimes she didn't bother to turn up at all! I complained to my cpn about her and she in turn passed the complaint on to this woman's manager. After the manager spoke to her she came for another week and then left - but before she left she told a barefaced lie about my mother which distracted attention away from my original complaint about her timekeeping and also made it very hard for us to get another sitter. To me this was a woman who knew she was dealing with an elderly person with dementia and used this to her own advantage. I'm sure there are good carers out there but this woman has knocked my faith in them.

 

[117katie]

My point is that I certainly was not attributing the failings of the western care system to cultural bias. Nor was I for one moment wishing to suggest that anyone should think "oh well, I'd be better at this if I'd been raised with different cultural norms", to quote your own post. Read on for the rest of my point, which I felt was not obtuse but clearly stated.

KATIE

 

[jenniferpa]

Maggie I'm sure knew that my comment about guilt was not directed towards her (or, in fact, anyone). Just we all know that guilt can hit for no rhyme or reason, and if you don't know that yet, you will do.

I'm still not sure what you're talking about, Katie, but if you know then that's fine

 

[117katie]

THAT IS WHAT I DO NOT DESCRIBE AS SUPPORT, JENNIFER!

Perhaps too early in your day, or too late in mine.

 

[jenniferpa]

I beg your pardon? I thought we were having a philosophical discussion here. As Maggie put it - sharing. I've obviously offended you in some way, although I have no idea how.

 

[117katie]

Then go back and re-read your posts. In particular the one where you chastise Margarita and the use of the word guilt; then the way you feel the need to quote the whole of my post - as if nobody else could see it, above - and then claim not to understand it.

If this is a philosophical discussion, then comment on the content of my post, not just say I don't understand where you are coming from.

 

[jenniferpa]

Then go back and re-read your posts. In particular the one where you chastise Margarita and the use of the word guilt; then the way you feel the need to quote the whole of my post - as if nobody else could see it, above - and then claim not to understand it.

If this is a philosophical discussion, then comment on the content of my post, not just say I don't understand where you are coming from.

Chastise Maggie? Where? When?

As to commenting on your post - personally I think you just want to have an argument although I'm not sure why. Note I am posting not as a moderator but as a member.

 

[Margarita]

Just we all know that guilt can hit for no rhyme or reason, and if you don't know that yet, you will do.

Oh I do no that feeling of guilt use to feel it every time mum went into respite, I learn to control that irrational feeling, its normal we all feel it

Then go back and re-read your posts. In particular the one where you chastise Margarita and the use of the word guilt; then the way you feel the need to quote the whole of my post - as if nobody else could see it, above - and then claim not to understand it.

totally agree with you Kate , you understand . Thank- you

 

[117katie]

I have no wish to have an argument with you, Jennifer, believe me.

But I was taken aback by the abrupt dismissal of Margarita and her comments. She is giving her much-considered opinion, and I value each and every opinion. So I do not dismiss it until such time as I have read it, thought about it, considered it.

But it appeared to me, that you were somewhat cruel to Margarita. If I was wrong, then so be it ... others will judge both me and you.

I have no wish to have an argument with anyone other than those who do not give our loved ones the support and care they deserve and that they have worked hard to ensure. Is that not the whole point of this forum, that we can all meet together to give each other suport, and the benefit of our own experience.

But you dismissed my post by saying "don't understand your point". If that is the case, then why bother to make a comment on it? Beats me.

So, I will have to disagree with you there. I have no wish to have an argument with you, Jennifer. As a moderator or as a member and contributor to TP.

 

[Margarita]

I am Just thinking that maybe Jennifer did not do it intentionally do it , as it did come across as cruel , when she said...... Quote and if you don't know that yet, you will do .Quote


anyway I know your in grief about your mother passing away and grief does bring up negative, irrational , feeling like Guilt , that I would not wish on anyone that feeling of guilt as I have had my over flow cup of it .

 

[jenniferpa]

I just want to clarify.

When I referred to guilt in my post I was referring to cultural guilt rather than an individual's guilt.

We live in a society where the received wisdom is that we do not value our elders as much as other societies do. Does that colour our care services? Perhaps. Should we feel guilt that we live in such a society? Perhaps that as well - a society being made up of us as individuals. However, my point was that spending a great deal of time bemoaning that fact is pointless, since we live in the society in which we live.

I absolutely was not saying that any individual felt guilt or that any individual should feel guilt: my comment that "Just we all know that guilt can hit for no rhyme or reason, and if you don't know that yet, you will do" was simply that - a comment. Is there anyone who can argue that guilt is always a rational response to a situation? I suppose if one always feels that guilt is indicative of failure, of some lack in oneself, then any suggestion that one might feel guilty is not going to be pleasant. I, on the other hand, think of guilt as potentially negative and positive. Negative if it consumes you, positive if it provides an impetus for change.

 

[Margarita]

Just we all know that guilt can hit for no rhyme or reason, and if you don't know that yet, you will do" was simply that - a comment. Is there anyone who can argue that guilt is always a rational response to a situation?

Yes murder!


So seeing this thread not about feeling guilty as we are not plotting to kill anyone . I rest my case