Dementia, Driving assessment and Insurance.

[Three of Three]

First post, so please go easy.

Mum was diagnosed with vascular dementia earlier this year.

DVLA were advised by us of her condition,as were the insurance company. Some time later, Mums license was revoked.

The consultant who had assessed Mum asked for a re-assessment, and on the strength of that, wrote to DVLA advising, that in his opinion, Mum was fit to drive.

DVLA have re-issued a provisional license and requested a driving assessment be undertaken. Mums insurance has now been cancelled by the insurance company.

I am assuming even if mum does pass the assessment, a vastly increased insurance premium will result due to the new license.

Current thinking is that Mum should have a few driving lessons with an instructor prior to the assessment.

Any advice from anyone who has been through a similar situation?

Thanks for reading.

 

[nitram]

Driving assessments for people with dementia (PWDs) are usually made before the licence is revoked.

They are quite different to the driving test which recently has changed and includes use of satnav.

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Driving and Dementia final.pdf is a dated explaination of the assessment for a PWD

First check what the requirement is, assessment or full driving test.

If it is not the full driving test and you approach an instructor make sure that they know that 'safe driving' is the criterion not 'rehearsed manoeuvres'.
I'm not sure that lessons would be of much use, it's awareness not technical ability that is being tested.

 

[Three of Three]

Driving assessments for people with dementia (PWDs) are usually made before the licence is revoked.

They are quite different to the driving test which recently has changed and includes use of satnav.
is a dated explaination of the assessment for a PWD

First check what the requirement is assessment or full driving test.

If it is not the full driving test and you approach an instructor make sure that they know that 'safe driving' is the criterion not 'rehearsed manoeuvres'.
I'm not sure that lessons would be of much use, it's awareness not technical ability that is being tested.

Thanks for the reply.

In this case, the license has been revoked,and a provisional re-issued before the assessment. If an assessment had taken place first, the insurance premium probably would have remained the same.

The test,as I understand it,requires a driving element (as well as other criteria).As mum hasn't driven for a number of months now,I thought it would be prudent to get her in a car before the test.Although she has her own car, she no longer has insurance.

I take your point that a driving instructor won't necessarily be the best solution.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Countryboy]

Hi not sure if you will find this helpful hopefully you will, Like you I joined Talking Point in March 2005 to answer a similar question as yours regarding Driving after diagnoses of Dementia and got into a lot of arguments on this forum , however I will tell my story in 1999 I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s my Consultant or my GP did not mention “Driving” however my Consultant moved abroad and I was assigned to a new Consultant Psychiatrist in 2001 who informed me I had to Notify DVLA obviously I did and the DVLA granted me a Driving Licence for one year regards Insurance all the wanted to know if I had informed the DVLA and if I was granted a Medical Driving licence and if it was for I, 2, or 3 years by the way my Insurance did Not go up in price, The DVLA continued granting me a licence every year for twelve years albeit every year I asked for the reinstatement of my Full licence after twelve years I decided to challenge the DVLA in Court so I gathered as much information I could in letters from my GP, Consultant Psychiatrist, Insurance Agent, who I been looked after my insurance for over thirty years, a Car Hire firm I used for many years I Majorca, took a Driving Assessment and paid for written report and got a friend to Video me driving in Majorca obviously on the opposite side of road from UK and wrote to DVLA they asked to see what I intended to take to court and I sent it to them after a few day I received a Letter from DVLA which said the granted me a full driving licence and No further medical inquiries was necessary Obviously because by then I was over 70 and every one only get the licence for 3 years then to finish I have been driving for 18 years after my diagnoses No problems at and no accidents either here in UK of Spain where I drive six weeks every year , obviously this only about me and my driving but I have always got 100% support from family and close friends sorry for and mistakes put it down to dementia

 

[Countryboy]

Hi not sure if you will find this helpful hopefully you will, Like you I joined Talking Point in March 2005 to answer a similar question as yours regarding Driving after diagnoses of Dementia and got into a lot of arguments on this forum , however I will tell my story in 1999 I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s my Consultant or my GP did not mention “Driving” however my Consultant moved abroad and I was assigned to a new Consultant Psychiatrist in 2001 who informed me I had to Notify DVLA obviously I did and the DVLA granted me a Driving Licence for one year regards Insurance all the wanted to know if I had informed the DVLA and if I was granted a Medical Driving licence and if it was for I, 2, or 3 years by the way my Insurance did Not go up in price, The DVLA continued granting me a licence every year for twelve years albeit every year I asked for the reinstatement of my Full licence after twelve years I decided to challenge the DVLA in Court so I gathered as much information I could in letters from my GP, Consultant Psychiatrist, Insurance Agent, who I been looked after my insurance for over thirty years, a Car Hire firm I unused for many years I Majorca, took a Driving Assessment and paid for written report and got a friend to Video me driving in Majorca obviously on the opposite side of road from UK and wrote to DVLA they asked to see what I intended to take to court and I sent it to them after a few day I received a Letter from DVLA which said the granted me a full driving licence and No further medical inquiries was necessary Obviously because by then I was over 70 and every one only get the licence for 3 years then to finish I have been driving for 18 years after my diagnoses No problems at and no accidents either here in UK of Spain where I drive six weeks every year , obviously this only about me and my driving but I have always got 100% support from family and close friends sorry for and mistakes put it down to dementia

 

[nitram]

Re insurance.
The insurance will have been revoked because she no longer has a valid driving licence.
If she drives using L plates and her provisional licence she is covered by A N Other's insurance.
If her licence is reinstated first approach the insurer she was using and, if necessary, start a search for other insurers.
There are TP members with experience of PWD drivers and insurance who may be able to comment.

 

[Three of Three]

my Consultant moved abroad and I was assigned to a new Consultant Psychiatrist in 2001 who informed me I had to Notify DVLA obviously I did and the DVLA granted me a Driving Licence for one year regards Insurance all the wanted to know if I had informed the DVLA and if I was granted a Medical Driving licence and if it was for I, 2, or 3 years by the way my Insurance did Not go up in price,

Thanks for your story Tony.

I too informed the insurance company who weren't interested unless DVLA revoked the license, which they did later.

However, recent quotes based on the fact (if Mum passes the test) that the license will not be her original, held for fifty plus years, but a new one, held for days will increase the premium significantly.

I suppose what I am asking is , if anyone is in a similar position, were they subsequently able to secure insurance at a reasonable premium, or did it put you off having an assessment at all?

 

[Spamar]

People with vascular dementia are usually stopped driving because of the risk of having Tia’s ( transient ischaemic attacks, or mini strokes).

 

[nitram]

,I thought it would be prudent to get her in a car before the test.Although she has her own car, she no longer has insurance.

Depending on your insurance, and at your risk (third party only?) you could take her out in your car at quiet time and make your own judgement.

As mum hasn't driven for a number of months now,

Does she really need the car?

 

[Three of Three]

Re insurance.
The insurance will have been revoked because she no longer has a valid driving licence.
If she drives using L plates and her provisional licence she is covered by A N Other's insurance.
If her licence is reinstated first approach the insurer she was using and, if necessary, start a search for other insurers.
There are TP members with experience of PWD drivers and insurance who may be able to comment.

The insurance was revoked because of her age and the fact the license had become provisional.

I called the insurer she was with today. They advised,as the license would be a new one, the premium would likely be significantly higher that the original,but couldn't offer quote until the test had been passed

People with vascular dementia are usually stopped driving because of the risk of having Tia’s ( transient ischaemic attacks, or mini strokes).

Thanks. How do they assess for that

Depending on your insurance, and at your risk (third party only?) you could take her out in your car at quiet time and make your own judgement.


Does she really need the car?

Yes, I suppose that is the other option.

No, she probably doesn't really need the car imo, but doesn't like the idea of not being able to drive.

 

[Countryboy]

Thanks for your story Tony.

I too informed the insurance company who weren't interested unless DVLA revoked the license, which they did later.

However, recent quotes based on the fact (if Mum passes the test) that the license will not be her original, held for fifty plus years, but a new one, held for days will increase the premium significantly.

I suppose what I am asking is , if anyone is in a similar position, were they subsequently able to secure insurance at a reasonable premium, or did it put you off having an assessment at all?

Hi unfortunately to retain your Driving Licence after a diagnoses of Dementia is going to be a battle because your battling bureaucrats and you possibly need to strong willed to fight and need a lot of support of family obviously for a lot of people Driving isn’t important but I took being told I couldn’t or shouldn’t Drive as an Insult when I hadn’t done anything wrong I understand that now your Mums licence has been revoked it difficult but unless your Mums GP asked the to revoke it they the DVLA had no right to revoke the licence check with your GP like I said big battle and I wear the T shirt

Hope it gets resolved
Tony

 

[nitram]

No, she probably doesn't really need the car imo, but doesn't like the idea of not being able to drive.

MOT time, taken for test, massive repair bill, maybe not bother, can do without.

You get the drift?

It's called love lies.

 

[Three of Three]

There are TP members with experience of PWD drivers and insurance who may be able to comment.

Thanks.

Would be grateful to hear from them.

 

[Peachez]

My OH had his licence revoked after diagnosis of MCI and Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. After a year of being stable on meds and not having any more 'absences', he got his license back via a lot of long forms which he kept filling in inconsistently, and visits to the GP.
He was the passenger from hell for that year, and it affected my confidence a lot. So when we had his provisional back we got in touch with the local Institute of Advanced Drivers (IAM), who will come out and assess your driving for a fee (they send a written report). This a) helped him prove to the GP, and me, that his driving was safe. And b) boost my dented confidence... I scored better than him!

The license is only for a year, and the letter arrived today from the DVLA to start the process again...

 

[Slugsta]

MOT time, taken for test, massive repair bill, maybe not bother, can do without.

You get the drift?

It's called love lies.

Nitram has made a good point. It is likely that your mum will have to stop driving eventually and you will go through this again. Might it be better to continue what has been started and get mum used to the idea, rather than fighting to get her licence back now and upsetting her all over again when the time comes that she is not safe to drive?

It seems, from my reading here, that many PWDs (maybe those without too!) continue driving long after they are actually considered safe to do so. That leaves a huge potential for accidents, possibly with injury to the PWD +/- others.

 

[Three of Three]

Nitram has made a good point. It is likely that your mum will have to stop driving eventually and you will go through this again. Might it be better to continue what has been started and get mum used to the idea, rather than fighting to get her licence back now and upsetting her all over again when the time comes that she is not safe to drive?

It seems, from my reading here, that many PWDs (maybe those without too!) continue driving long after they are actually considered safe to do so. That leaves a huge potential for accidents, possibly with injury to the PWD +/- others.

Thanks. Yes, that is probably the best course of action.We can all see that, except obviously mum. The trouble is, she keeps bringing the subject up. Perhaps it would be kinder (and easier) if an official told her she was not safe to drive (assuming she fails).Or is that taking the easy way out?

 

[Countryboy]

Hi I did tell you in my first reply this wouldn’t be easy and basically this effects your mothers right to continue to drive if she herself wants to providing she has the confidence and ability of course a driving assessment would be a good idea, I went through a similar process in 2001 and had the bureaucrats succeeded I would has been like a prisoner without my car for 17years, it maybe ok to surrender the licence if you live in a City were transport is easy but were in the outback we only get a stagecoach a few times a day and the nearest Town is 7 miles away I understand were all different with different abilities but I did say !! this was rather a personal subject and believe me you need to be the person with the dementia to understand the effects it has on you.
would love to hear you mum's views
take care and keep safe

 

[Magic57]

Hi not sure if you will find this helpful hopefully you will, Like you I joined Talking Point in March 2005 to answer a similar question as yours regarding Driving after diagnoses of Dementia and got into a lot of arguments on this forum , however I will tell my story in 1999 I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s my Consultant or my GP did not mention “Driving” however my Consultant moved abroad and I was assigned to a new Consultant Psychiatrist in 2001 who informed me I had to Notify DVLA obviously I did and the DVLA granted me a Driving Licence for one year regards Insurance all the wanted to know if I had informed the DVLA and if I was granted a Medical Driving licence and if it was for I, 2, or 3 years by the way my Insurance did Not go up in price, The DVLA continued granting me a licence every year for twelve years albeit every year I asked for the reinstatement of my Full licence after twelve years I decided to challenge the DVLA in Court so I gathered as much information I could in letters from my GP, Consultant Psychiatrist, Insurance Agent, who I been looked after my insurance for over thirty years, a Car Hire firm I used for many years I Majorca, took a Driving Assessment and paid for written report and got a friend to Video me driving in Majorca obviously on the opposite side of road from UK and wrote to DVLA they asked to see what I intended to take to court and I sent it to them after a few day I received a Letter from DVLA which said the granted me a full driving licence and No further medical inquiries was necessary Obviously because by then I was over 70 and every one only get the licence for 3 years then to finish I have been driving for 18 years after my diagnoses No problems at and no accidents either here in UK of Spain where I drive six weeks every year , obviously this only about me and my driving but I have always got 100% support from family and close friends sorry for and mistakes put it down to dementia

Hi my husband has recently been diagnosed with FTD and advised to notify DVLA which we are about to do. What is the process like? He would like to continue driving as this is the only way he can get to work. What happens after DVLA notified and would he have difficulty getting insurance. Also can insurance be taken out for a shorter period than 12 months. Feeling overwhelmed by it all.

 

[Countryboy]

Hi Majic57 sorry your husband is having to go this process but great news that he (a) want's to continue working and (b) wants to retain his driving license and continue driving .
From my own experience I was 57 when first diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 1999 but wasn’t told to inform the DVLA until 2001 after by a new Consultant after notifying DVLA it took a few months before the DVLA finally decided to grant a license for 12 months the Insurance was never a problem because providing you inform them they ask If you have a Medical License from DVLA is it for 1, 2, or 3 years pretty straight forward in my case 1 year it wasn’t until 2003 after a PET brain scan I was diagnosed with FTD the scan was repeated a year later in 2004 nothing change with my driving license every year they gave me another 12 month licence and No problems with Insurance either I was an essential car user at work so it was important I retired in 2008 when I became 65 , the driving licence became such a thorn in my side that in 2012 after having 12 number 12 month licenses I decided to take the DVLA to court to challenge their decision, long story here but all I will say I now hold a Full driving licence albeit is only for 3 years because I’m over 70 my Insurance renewal still has Dementia on it Obviously that cant change, all I can say Majic57 when your dealing bureaucrat’s you need to be prepared to fright for your rights,,
ps I having been responding to Driving issues here on TP since March 2005 nearly 13 years and still driving No problems
Best of luck to your Husband
sorry about the grammar mistakes

 

[Countryboy]

Hi Majic57 I’ve being thinking about your husband and noticed on another thread you stated he is 60 years old still young, so I though he needs support from someone who was in the same situation as him at age of 57. remember I'm the person wearing the “T” shirt and we don’t have to give up normal every day living , as previously stated I was first diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 1999 and later with fronto-temporal-dementia and continued working for 8 years

In general frontal lobe dementias are insidious in onset and progression and It is therefore likely that any changes will occur only very gradually over a number of years however it still falls in the Dementia definition when dealing with bureaucrat’s ( they haven’t got any information on FTD) and believe me driving can bring about a lot of debate this can be very upsetting and frustrating to the person with the actual diagnoses however we must bear in mind we are all individuals with individual skills and abilities driving could be one of those abilities , for myself personally I have driven almost every day for almost 59 years and bearing in mind I am in the twentieth (20th) year since my first diagnoses and still going strong , I’m so glad I decide to fight to retain my driving license, I was fortunate that all my close family and friends the GP’S Consultants were very positive about my ability to drive not one of them made a negative comment