Joint bank account

[Blackcat66]

Hi Everyone,
I'm hoping someone can share their experience when you have no LPA.

My father in law has no LPA,but two joint accounts with my mother in law who is just going into a care home, can he use her 50% in both accounts to pay for her care until it reaches the magic 23k or will he need Deputyship. She has a sole account with a small amount in and we realise this is now not accessible and will go towards the 23k

 

[nitram]

can he use her 50% in both accounts to pay for her care until it reaches the magic 23k

If the bank gets wind that one of the joint holders has lost capacity it may close or put restrictions on the account
If one joint account holder loses mental capacity, banks
and building societies can decide whether or not to
temporarily restrict the use of the account to essential
transactions only (for example, living expenses and
medical or residential-care bills) until a deputy has been
appointed or a power of attorney registered.
If a person has a joint account with someone who is losing
mental capacity, they should talk to their bank or building
society.

P9

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80e24c40f0b623026960a9/Guidance-for-people-wanting-to-manage-a-bank-account-for-someone-else.pdf

The bank may accept payment of care fees.

Best move half the balance to a sole account in your name so that her asset is correct when it comes to financial assessment.

I would apply for deputyship to avoid future problems.

 

[Blackcat66]

Thanks fro your reply

 

[Blackcat66]

I'm still confused whether to waste 4k to access less than 10k in the sole account

 

[nitram]

The <10k will be included in the LA financial assessment.
Have you asked what the LA what the reaction would be if you told the assessors you were not prepared to obtain deputyship to access it for care?

 

[thistlejak]

@Blackcat66 - you say about wasting£4K to get access to the money - is that a price you have been quoted by a solicitor? I/we did Deputyship applications ourselves for MIL & FIL - It cost us circa £750 each to did it including getting an independent social worker to do the COP3 ( capacity) form. The forms are a bit long but doable - my take on it was we would have to give all the information to a solicitor for them to get paid for filling in a form. I did one form a day until I had completed them all - admittedly the second one was easier than the first as some information applied to both of them.

As @nitram has mentioned the LA may decide to apply themselves if family choose not to.

 

[Blackcat66]

I know that the MIL can keep £14,250, so why would the FIL declare to the LA the sole account £10,000 but he would not need to access it as it would part of the £14,250. Is this not correct?
My FIL has access to the rest of her funds in the joint account and would pay the fees until her joint account money (50% of current balance) reaches £4,250 plus the sole account of £10,000

 

[Blackcat66]

@Blackcat66 - you say about wasting£4K to get access to the money - is that a price you have been quoted by a solicitor? I/we did Deputyship applications ourselves for MIL & FIL - It cost us circa £750 each to did it including getting an independent social worker to do the COP3 ( capacity) form. The forms are a bit long but doable - my take on it was we would have to give all the information to a solicitor for them to get paid for filling in a form. I did one form a day until I had completed them all - admittedly the second one was easier than the first as some information applied to both of them.

As @nitram has mentioned the LA may decide to apply themselves if family choose not to.

Thanks fro your reply, I still think my FIL does not need to access the sole account has only has 10k in it

 

[nitram]

Thanks fro your reply, I still think my FIL does not need to access the sole account has only has 10k in it

It may come down to LA's thoughts not yours.
Ask them.

 

[Andy54]

Whether or not he needs access to it, the funds still need to be included in any financial assessment. To not declare it would be misrepresenting her finances to the local authority and may be seen as deprivation of assets.

 

[Blackcat66]

Whether or not he needs access to it, the funds still need to be included in any financial assessment. To not declare it would be misrepresenting her finances to the local authority and may be seen as deprivation of assets.

My FIL has already declared it to the LA and they are aware we have no LPA, so only access to my MIL joint account funds

 

[Blackcat66]

It may come down to LA's thoughts not yours.
Ask them.

Many Thanks!

Good call, the LA are trying to sort out a home atm, and are aware of no LPA, but we have not yet asked them about the sole account funds and whether we will need access to them. I will prompt that question with the FIL

 

[nitram]

Good call, the LA are trying to sort out a home atm, and are aware of no LPA, but we have not yet asked them about the sole account funds and whether we will need access to them. I will prompt that question with the FIL

And you are proposing to pay the fees out of the joint account using FIL's access?
Who's going to sign any contract on behalf of MIL?

 

[Blackcat66]

And you are proposing to pay the fees out of the joint account using FIL's access?
Who's going to sign any contract on behalf of MIL?

Yes, using FIL access, not sure what you mean about contract, Deputyship solicitor said he could pay her care home from her 50 % of the joint account

 

[nitram]

Yes, using FIL access, not sure what you mean about contract, Deputyship solicitor said he could pay her care home from her 50 % of the joint account

Acting as deputy, which he isn't. he can sign contracts on her behalf, signing in his own right makes him liable for all costs, not a good idea when the future is unknown.