Concerns About Mum’s Death

[Firecatcher]

Some of the regular poster’s on here know my Mum died unexpectedly in March. Although Mum was in the end stages of dementia she was still eating and drinking so her death was a complete shock. According to the care home she deteriorated around 36 hours before she died. They called an ambulance the day after she deteriorated and the paramedics felt she was close to dying and wouldn’t benefit from being taken to hospital. I’ve been unable to get anymore information from the home despite asking for a more detailed report. They insist they made numerous attempts to contact my step father on his landline and mobile. The mobile number they thought was his was actually mine and I certainly didn’t receive any calls. My step father always answers the phone and I’d spoken to
him a few hours before my Mum died. I’ve posted before that I had a difficult relationship with my Mum but I tried my best to ensure she got the care she needed and certainly wouldn’t have let her die alone.
I really am wondering what exactly happened. To make matters worse I’ve discovered two of the homes in the same group as Mum’s were placed in special measures by the CQC last year due to neglect of residents and a whole catalogue of errors.
The manager at the home described Mum as frail and immobile when she was admitted in a November last year. Mum wasn’t immobile and the CHC assessment undertaken at the home clearly states she could walk and transfer with a zimmer. Mum was also on 1-1s due to being a fall risk which the care home tried to stop. The manager also told me in an email that her GP had said in January that if Mum died her death wouldn’t be unexpected. Does this mean she was regarded as EOL?. This wasn’t communicated to my step father or me and I feel it should have been.
Although I’m relieved Mum is no longer suffering I feel really uneasy particularly when I’ve read about people being near death for weeks/months on here.
Mum’s death certificate states dementia as the sole cause as she didn’t have any other medical problems. I actually wish I’d insisted her death was referred to the coroner but was so shocked at the time I went along with what the GP said.
I’ve already raised my concerns with the CQC. Should I do anything else or just leave it.
Thanks to anyone who reads this far and responds.

 

[Kevinl]

Nothing will bring her back, if you believe there is a serious case of negligence then I personally 100% support you, however, revenge...well, won't bring her back.
That said if you have specific issues then the CQC would bey first option. K

 

[SAP]

Oh gosh, @Firecatcher ,I have no pearls of wisdom here but what a thing to have to face. I think you need to consider why you would want to follow this up and what you would want to happen. Sometime knowledge is unbearable. I suppose first things first is what does your step father think. Find out what the process would be , i.e what would the CQC actually do and would they get any further information to what you already know? All the best.

 

[sdmhred]

I guess I would recommend you sit on this for a week or so and discuss with your stepdad. I’m guessing you or your stepdad can request a copy of both the care home notes for the last 36 hours of her life plus the records the paramedics took. Think through whether this knowledge would help your grief process or not.

in terms of unexpected death it is on mum’s records that the GP wouldn’t be surprised. My understanding is that this isn’t a declaration of EOL but probably means the death doesn’t have to be automatically registered with the coroner and an autopsy performed. I wouldn’t want that for mum here at this stage of life unless I suddenly had concerns of abuse or maliciousness which I don’t at present.

 

[Firecatcher]

Nothing will bring her back, if you believe there is a serious case of negligence then I personally 100% support you, however, revenge...well, won't bring her back.
That said if you have specific issues then the CQC would bey first option. K

Thanks for your reply. It’s not about bringing my Mum back or any kind of revenge but making sure what happened doesn’t happen to others. I think communication was really poor and I strongly believe Mum’s death was due to neglect.

 

[Firecatcher]

Oh gosh, @Firecatcher ,I have no pearls of wisdom here but what a thing to have to face. I think you need to consider why you would want to follow this up and what you would want to happen. Sometime knowledge is unbearable. I suppose first things first is what does your step father think. Find out what the process would be , i.e what would the CQC actually do and would they get any further information to what you already know? All the best.

My step father has questioned why Mum died and I wouldn’t want to worry him unduly. He’d be more likely to think something really untoward had happened. It worries me that two homes in the group of five are in special measures and another requires improvement. I do think Mum was neglected judging from the omissions so far and I don’t think enough effort was made to contact my step father when she started to deteriorate. I believe the CQC could carry out an unannounced inspection if they wished.

 

[maggie6445]

As some of the regular posters on here know my Mum died unexpectedly in March. Although Mum was in the end stages of dementia she was still eating and drinking so her death was a complete shock. According to the care home she deteriorated around 36 hours before she died. They called an ambulance the day after she deteriorated and the paramedics felt she was close to dying and wouldn’t benefit from being taken to hospital. I’ve been unable to get anymore information from the home despite asking for a more detailed report. They insist they made numerous attempts to contact my step father on his landline and mobile. The mobile number they thought was his was actually mine and I certainly didn’t receive any calls. My step father always answers the phone and I’d spoken to
him a few hours before my Mum died. I’ve posted before that I had a difficult relationship with my Mum but I tried my best to ensure she got the care she needed and certainly wouldn’t have let her die alone.
I really am wondering what exactly happened. To make matters worse I’ve discovered two of the homes in the same group as Mum’s were placed in special measures by the CQC last year due to neglect of residents and a whole catalogue of errors.
The manager at the home described Mum as frail and immobile when she was admitted in a November last year. Mum wasn’t immobile and the CHC assessment undertaken at the home clearly states she could walk and transfer with a zimmer. Mum was also on 1-1s due to being a fall risk which the care home tried to stop. The manager also told me in an email that her GP had said in January that if Mum died her death wouldn’t be unexpected. Does this mean she was regarded as EOL?. This wasn’t communicated to my step father or me and I feel it should have been.
Although I’m relieved Mum is no longer suffering I feel really uneasy particularly when I’ve read about people being near death for weeks/months on here.
Mum’s death certificate states dementia as the sole cause as she didn’t have any other medical problems. I actually wish I’d insisted her death was referred to the coroner but was so shocked at the time I went along with what the GP said.
I’ve already raised my concerns with the CQC. Should I do anything else or just leave it.
Thanks to anyone who reads this far and responds.

Hello @Firecatcher, I'm sorry to hear about your mum and the concerns you have .
If you complained to cqc have you had a response?
I was in a similar position when my dad died. He was in hospital ,during lockdown,and we couldn't visit. My siblings and I were given different information when we rang the ward. Had scans, hadn't had scan , pneumonia, nothing about that here etc , etc..He was discharged to a care home for rehab with a view to going home and he died within 5 days!.
I complained to PALs and requested his hospital notes as my siblings and I felt there was possible neglect on the part of the hospital. I seriously would have sought a no win ,no fee solicitor as we were very unhappy about the misinformation we were given.

After reading his hospital notes I made the decision not to pursue legal action.
Yes, we were given the wrong information / misled but his notes were clearly those of a very unwell man. The outcome wouldn't have been different.

I registered my dissatisfaction with the hospital and the cqc and left it at that.

No one can make the decision for you about whether to take things further but for me it really was about whether dad had poor care and the records suggested he didn't. I think as relatives maybe we did but then it wasn't about us.

I hope you can feel at peace whatever you decide to do.

 

[Kevinl]

Then as I said I personally support you 100% to help others but if there issues then right behind you, bad homes do exist, bad carers in them too. Systems rubbish isn't it, but it's all we've got apart from each other. K

 

[Firecatcher]

Hello @Firecatcher, I'm sorry to hear about your mum and the concerns you have .
If you complained to cqc have you had a response?
I was in a similar position when my dad died. He was in hospital ,during lockdown,and we couldn't visit. My siblings and I were given different information when we rang the ward. Had scans, hadn't had scan , pneumonia, nothing about that here etc , etc..He was discharged to a care home for rehab with a view to going home and he died within 5 days!.
I complained to PALs and requested his hospital notes as my siblings and I felt there was possible neglect on the part of the hospital. I seriously would have sought a no win ,no fee solicitor as we were very unhappy about the misinformation we were given.

After reading his hospital notes I made the decision not to pursue legal action.
Yes, we were given the wrong information / misled but his notes were clearly those of a very unwell man. The outcome wouldn't have been different.

I registered my dissatisfaction with the hospital and the cqc and left it at that.

No one can make the decision for you about whether to take things further but for me it really was about whether dad had poor care and the records suggested he didn't. I think as relatives maybe we did but then it wasn't about us.

I hope you can feel at peace whatever you decide to do.

Many thanks @maggie6445 and I’m pleased you complained about your Dad’s care. I don’t think I’d take legal action as it would be far too stressful.
I’ve only recently complained to the CQC and I don’t think they you ever get any feedback from them.

 

[maggie6445]

Many thanks @maggie6445 and I’m pleased you complained about your Dad’s care. I don’t think I’d take legal action as it would be far too stressful.
I’ve only recently complained to the CQC and I don’t think they you ever get any feedback from them.

You're right ,you don't get feedback from the cqc . The hospital was under notice to improve and was having regular inspections so by complaining I hope the issues we raised were monitored.

Actually the hospital sent him to the care home telling them he was going to have physio. Said he was walking with a Zimmer . He actually arrived at the home in a wheelchair and a sling on his arm by way of explaining why he wasn't walking. Transpired he wasn't capable of walking even with a Zimmer. Lied to the home as well as us. The home said they wouldn't have taken him if they had known but he stayed until he died five days later.
Home was lovely with dad but was very annoyed with the hospital!

But ...as I say the outcome would have been the same.

 

[Firecatcher]

You're right ,you don't get feedback from the cqc . The hospital was under notice to improve and was having regular inspections so by complaining I hope the issues we raised were monitored.

Actually the hospital sent him to the care home telling them he was going to have physio. Said he was walking with a Zimmer . He actually arrived at the home in a wheelchair and a sling on his arm by way of explaining why he wasn't walking. Transpired he wasn't capable of walking even with a Zimmer. Lied to the home as well as us. The home said they wouldn't have taken him if they had known but he stayed until he died five days later.
Home was lovely with dad but was very annoyed with the hospital!

But ...as I say the outcome would have been the same.

It’s really appalling how hospitals downplay things just to get someone into a care home. This happened with my Mum and she had two failed care home placements before this last one.
I think I wouldn’t feel as I do if the manager hadn’t become so defensive when I asked questions and if more effort had been made to get in touch when she became unwell.

 

[maggie6445]

It’s really appalling how hospitals downplay things just to get someone into a care home. This happened with my Mum and she had two failed care home placements before this last one.
I think I wouldn’t feel as I do if the manager hadn’t become so defensive when I asked questions and if more effort had been made to get in touch when she became unwell.

Becoming defensive suggests an awareness of their shortcomings. It's not going to change your situation but hopefully will for others in the future. .
I hope you can find peace .

 

[Firecatcher]

Becoming defensive suggests an awareness of their shortcomings. It's not going to change your situation but hopefully will for others in the future. .
I hope you can find peace .

Yes I agree about the defensiveness. How did you go about obtaining your Dad’s notes from the hospital? I’m not NOK as my step dad is although I had POA up until my Mum died.

 

[maggie6445]

Yes I agree about the defensiveness. How did you go about obtaining your Dad’s notes from the hospital? I’m not NOK as my step dad is although I had POA up until my Mum died.

My siblings and I were executors of dad's will. I contacted PALs and asked for the records as executor. PALs were poor at responding so I contacted the hospital direct who were quicker and quite helpful.. I received a huge photo copied pack of notes from his admission to discharge. It was comprehensive, ,record of meds, physio ,SALT , scans , cardiology reports. He was in around 7 weeks and all daily checks etc were included. POA ceases on death and only executor can act after death.

 

[Firecatcher]

My siblings and I were executors of dad's will. I contacted PALs and asked for the records as executor. PALs were poor at responding so I contacted the hospital direct who were quicker and quite helpful.. I received a huge photo copied pack of notes from his admission to discharge. It was comprehensive, ,record of meds, physio ,SALT , scans , cardiology reports. He was in around 7 weeks and all daily checks etc were included. POA ceases on death and only executor can act after death.

Many thanks for your reply. My step father is the named executor of my Mum’s will so it would be up to him if he wanted to request Mum’s notes. I’ll discuss this with him when I next visit.

 

[maggie6445]

Many thanks for your reply. My step father is the named executor of my Mum’s will so it would be up to him if he wanted to request Mum’s notes. I’ll discuss this with him when I next visit.

I hope whatever the decision it will give you peace.

 

[mhw]

You won't achieve much sadly, at worst delay the grieving process for yourself and best a half heart default ' lessons have been learnt' statement.
The gp statement is the wording from the goldstandards frame work used in all homes to put a person o the palliative care register with the gp. But palliative care is not end of life. It just means getting prepared basically and decisions for a better death which is deemed imminent.
As for some people's relatives living months. Would you actually prefer that to a sudden death for a loved one? I know I'd welcome a call informing me of a sudden huge stroke and a swift painless end.
Try to focus on dealing with the loss not the how and why. Finger pointing sometimes just looks like the part of grief that is guilt and however many answers you do or don't get at the end of the day if its yourself who thinks they have failed only you can address that.