Too early for care home....what now?

[Sweetsheep]

Although I have not posted in a while, there has been a lot going on. My FIL has been placed in a lovely residential home and is isntrying to settle in. However, it has not been without its challenges. We were really disappointed with SS making promises to FIL and then never delivering and he feels forced into living in a care home and has not quite accepted this as his permanent living arrangement. However we are now in the throws of having to move him out of his rented accommodation as its been sold and they can no longer store his possessions. Being somewhat of a hoarder, especially with old business paperwork etc. The task has been very time consuming. He also downgraded a few times in terms of accommodations. And has now been left with a garage full of rotting and smelly furniture and boxes and boxes of things ruined by the damp, etc. (Which he believee has value) We have managed to get someone who has taken a fair bit of it and luckily actually paid some money for things we thought we would have to pay to have cleared. So winning there! However....he is really angry that we are doing this. Every box we try to go through, he keeps saying "just leave it" and then doesn't want to deal with it..when we have made decisions without him, he gets very angry. He has to be out of the property by next week and we are still left with so much stuff he has asked us to leave and not do anything with. His room at the carehome is already so full of stuff. So things are really tense between my husband and my FIL. However, in the next week we are going to have to also remove all his credit cards off of him as he is continually using them, even drawing cash from them, as he will no longer have any income to pay them. All his pension will be used to pay for the care. He has little money in the bank. He refuses to declare bankrupcy or to stop paying them and cannot understand why we keep telling him to stop. This conversation is going to be explosive. Its already a really touchy subject and he has refused in the past to listen to us and not spend on them. He has racked up 16k in credit card debt in under 3 years. We are tired and exhausted from the last few months, and I am really worried about this part of the journey. I don't think my husband and his dad's relationship will survive this next stage. My FIL has become so aggressive towards my H and doesn't trust him anymore. He is blamed for putting dad in care home and now clearing the house. We have brought his aunt down (dad's sister) to help us, but last night on the phone she is feeling the same way we are, and she has only been here a few days trying to smooth things and reason with him. The lovely man I used to think of as a dad, is becoming a bully who is intimidating us all and making life so hard. I get this is his life and there have been some big changes, but he will not accept any of it. Even the mess he has made of his finances! SS have washed their hands of his case now and "closed" his file. They have been no help at all, especially with the finances. We are completely at our whits end with him. I am dreading the next few days and feel sick to my stomach of the discussion around his money. Even my husband ans his aunt are so anxious. We have called the council and they have just referred us to 2 organisations, but my FIL is having none of it, and does not want to make any arrangements with anyone. Its up to my husband to deal with it

Hi @swwetsheep, I think your husband and maybe you are still thinking you can reason with your FiL and are still trying to involve him in decisions. I’d just do what needs to be done and not tell him. Either make up plausible reasons about not having cards for instance or why he can’t hang on to old paperwork if he asks or just step right back and let the care home and SS deal with the fall out.
I’m glad you’ve found him a care home so that is a step in the right direction. I’m sure others will be along soon with their tips and suggestions,

Thank you for responding so quickly. We have all tried to do things without him but this is causing so much fuss. He is livid at the moment. He even managed (a major shock to us) to walk from the carehome to his house yesterday when we had arranged not to fetch him to get stuff done, and then got very angry as things has been removed or sold without his "permission", SS will no longer assist us either. They have washed their hands of him and say they have done everything they could and feel he has capacity to deal with it??. His case is closed now. Its up to the family to deal with it. As its not a Dementia home and my FIL is found to have capacity through SS assessment, they will not do it

I agree with @Sarasa - you are not going to be able to reason with him about all the arrangements because he is unable to understand the reality of his situation. Dont try and involve him in the decisions because he can no longer make these decisions. You will have to make arrangements and do what you have to do without even telling him. I know it will feel like going behind his back, but Im afraid that it is the only way.

He is unlikely to allow you to sort out his possessions while he is in the house. Do you have any time to sort out his possessions after he has moved? If not, perhaps you could hire storage for a week or two and simply move everything there on the move date, so that you can sort it all out once he has moved.

Hi Canary, thank you for your reply. Yesterday he walked from the carehome to the house and gave us all a massive shock. (Its in the same village) and will continue to do this if we dont go and fetch him. He will not be left out of any of the arrangements and is extremely paranoid, hence him "surprising us". So now he trusts us even less. He was infuriated when he saw some of his possessions already gone, even when we tried to tell him we were storing it. He doesn't believe anything we say and cannot be reasoned with. He either wants it moved to his room or left at the house or else he becomes a raging angry man who is upsetting everyone. We have no funds to pay for any storage and we do not have the space or financial means to move it to our home (we live quite far away from him) This has now strained relationships even more. We have tried to do a lot without him but he will not give up control and has got to the point where he will not accept that we make any decisions for him. It doesn't help that SS have deemed him to have capacity and now closed ehe file, and the GP has yet to send him to the memory clinic for assessment as he is presenting socially really well! After reading @Sarasa's comments I have just spoken to my husband and said that in terms of his CC we can show him his budget (he has asked us to show him in black and white why he cannot afford his CC) and leave it with him to deal with, if this is what he wants. No doubt by the end of April when all his payments are missed, and he is getting contacted by the CC companies, he will hopefully turn back to us to help him. Even removing them from him is impossible as he has already tried to hide keys from us etc. Which we are now unable to find.

 

[Sarasa]

Is it possible to walk away and let things fail?
It sounds to me, that despite what SS think, your FiL no longer has the capacity to make informed decisions about major matters, though he could probably make them about more minor things.
Tell SS what you have done and let them pick up the pieces. At the moment it sounds like a battle that you aren't going to win.

 

[Violet Jane]

I’m puzzled. I thought that your FIL was already living in a care home. How is it that he is so closely involved in clearing his flat? Are you taking him out of the care home every time you go to the flat? If so, I would stop doing that as it’s just fuelling his anxiety and anger. The rotting / mouldy furniture and possessions just have to be got rid of. Do what you need without referring to him. He’s beyond understanding and you can’t reason with him.

 

[Sweetsheep]

I’m puzzled. I thought that your FIL was already living in a care home. How is it that he is so closely involved in clearing his flat? Are you taking him out of the care home every time you go to the flat? If so, I would stop doing that as it’s just fuelling his anxiety and anger. The rotting / mouldy furniture and possessions just have to be got rid of. Do what you need without referring to him. He’s beyond understanding and you can’t reason with him.

He is in a residential home that he can leave so he is walking to the bungelow when we don't fetch him. We have his sister staying in the house this week to clear it and so he is now taking it apon himself to get there.

 

[Sweetsheep]

Is it possible to walk away and let things fail?
It sounds to me, that despite what SS think, your FiL no longer has the capacity to make informed decisions about major matters, though he could probably make them about more minor things.
Tell SS what you have done and let them pick up the pieces. At the moment it sounds like a battle that you aren't going to win.

Yes I think after seeing your message we have discussed it and think we may just finish what we can this week and then with his finances, walk away from it and see what happens. His concept on money and how it works seems to be gone. The issue we have is that as he has access to leave the residential home he is in, he is racking up more debt and we were trying to stop it, but it's not working. So we will just leave it now and see what happens.

 

[Violet Jane]

My post crossed with your later post.

I think that you may need to step away and allow everything to fail. That means leaving him to get into a total mess and stoppng giving him any support. Leave the flat and wait for it to be repossessed, boarded and presumably cleared (but make sure that you take away anything important or of sentimental value). Let him run into debt until the bank stops giving him access to his CC.

SS have found that he has capacity and you appear to have no POA. It’s only when there is a crisis that SS / the health service will act.

I assume that your FIL can leave the home whenever he wants because there is no DOLS.

But to allow things to fail you must step away completely. If you prop him up the whole situation will continue. Don’t go running every time he rings.

 

[Sweetsheep]

My post crossed with your later post.

I think that you may need to step away and allow everything to fail. That means leaving him to get into a total mess and stoppng giving him any support. Leave the flat and wait for it to be repossessed, boarded and presumably cleared (but make sure that you take away anything important or of sentimental value). Let him run into debt until the bank stops giving him access to his CC.

SS have found that he has capacity and you appear to have no POA. It’s only when there is a crisis that SS / the health service will act.

I assume that your FIL can leave the home whenever he wants because there is no DOLS.

But to allow things to fail you must step away completely. If you prop him up the whole situation will continue. Don’t go running every time he rings.

Thank you for your message. Yes I think after speaking with my hubby this morning, we will go and finish the last bits we can today and then leave him with the copy of his budget and the file with all the CC info and let him deal with it for now. We are waiting for the POA to be registered and until theb our hands are tied. The house he was in is rented and so has to be cleared as its been sold. He didn't pay a deposit and was meant to buy the property and so we cannot leave anything for the owner to deal with as this is not fair on them. We will persevere this weekend and then once the house is done, step away and let things unfold on their own. It's been the most stressful 9 months. SS and the GP have really failed us. We were just trying to help him but his personality has changed so much and he has become so unreasonable that its been a shock to be honest. Thank you for your advice, we needed a different perspective.

 

[Violet Jane]

It will be interesting (sorry if that sounds cold) to see what your FIL will do once he can no longer get into his house. He might settle in the home but it's also possible that he will try to break in or start pestering the neighbours who will probably call the police who in turn will take him to hospital if he looks in a distressed state and / or contact SS. That sounds alarming but might be the only way that he gets a timely diagnosis and SS take appropriate action. In dementia world you often have to wait for a crisis.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

Take control. Remove the cards and phone then remove yourselves from the situation for a while. If he kicks off, call SS safeguarding or 999. Social Services have duty of care, not you and this is way beyond what family can cope with. If he ends up being sectioned, so be it - that might be the best thing for him and they would certainly find a home that really meets his needs.

Re. the credit card debts, write to the companies and explain your father has dementia and ran up these debts when he lacked cognition. Ask for the debts to be cancelled. Others have succeeded with this but at the very least they should suspend interest on the debts.

 

[Violet Jane]

I think that it's a risk removing his cards and phone. There is no diagnosis and no finding of incapacity. They could be accused of theft. It might be better to contact the bank and credit card company explaining the situation and hope that they take some action. At the very least, I would hope that the CC company would deactivate his card given the £16K he owes and which he has no real prospect of repaying as most of his pensions are now being taken to pay for care.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

Sorry @Sweetsheep - I was also a little confused where he is right now! Once you have the PoA registered you can take over his finances.

But the issue is going to be his capacity - or lack of. As he's not under a DoLS at the care home, he's free to come and go as he likes. I really think you're all going to have to step back from the situation completely because his attitude is not going to change and he's getting more and more wound up. I would contact social services and tell them you cannot continue to care for him in any way and warn them he's becoming a danger to himself and others. Remind them of their duty of care.

And stop answering phone calls from him. If you like, just leave a message giving the number of social services. I would also send a letter to his (useless) GP detailing his behaviours, rages and total inability to understand his situation. Say, 'We have asked you to help because you have duty of care and we can no longer cope with his aggression. We are stepping back completely to protect our own mental health and have also notified social services.'

You shouldn't have to do this because people should be listening to you and helping. It seems they are doing the opposite

 

[Violet Jane]

Yes, picking up on what @Jaded'n'faded has said, I would inform SS and the GP that you are stepping back completely and that you won't be able to help in a crisis as you live too far away.

 

[Firecatcher]

I’m a bit late to this but I’d also reinforce what others have said about stepping back completely and allowing the situation to implode. I’m very cynical but I feel the majority of social workers are lazy and useless and will only act if their forced to. I wouldn’t make myself available to their frantic calls when it all goes wrong as they’ll be only too keen to offload everything on to you.