This programme brought back memories for me especially when I moved my mother - long time ago - 15 yrs - no she didn't lift a finger to help pack things up and I found it very hard as I was the only one helping her. I knew she had and did suffer terribly and I always suffered because of that - but then I still had some capacity and ability. Only now, experiencing that same loss of cognition, initiative, thought processing do I really understand her suffering more. There was no TP then and no real mental health support either so despite my own training I probably didn't handle things in the best way, but I do know I handled them in the only way that I could and knew how to. I did what I felt was best for her well being. What is obvious to me is that Wonderlander loves her Mum and wants the best for her what the rest of us think is immaterial really, the main thing is she IS cared for by people that love her. It is more understanding of the condition and how best to cope with the 'abnormal' behaviours that is needed which is TP at its best.
Tonight BBC2 9.00pm documentary " granny's moving in" about 83 yr old with dementia
- Thread starter tre
- Start date
So glad to see this thread reinstated. I had described the programme as ‘disturbing’ I know. Katherine’s choice of phrase ‘thought-provoking’ is more apt, of course. 
I had intended responding last night to share my reflections on the part of Phil and Sue (one of whom I assume is wonderlander, if not one of their daughters? – names available on the BBC website for anyone to see - not breaking any confidences).
After reflecting sometime and re-watching some of the programme because it had moved me so much I found I was becoming more concerned for Peggy’s family than her ..... but the thread had been temporarily removed.
How much advice had they been given about possible prognosis/potential for steep declines in Peggy’s ability/legal matters which may have affect themselves in the future as well as Peggy? I noted Sue had mentioned the ‘granny annexe’ to the consultant ..... why didn’t he step in and offer OT assessment for their plans? (Sorry, that’s me doing my usual blue-sky thinking about how dementia care should be!) Little things – like – why was there not a ramp to the ... errrm .... ‘summerhouse’ (not quite sure what to call it?) ... any sudden change in mobility catered for without change instead of those steps? .... why was there an en suite in the sleeping area – but not in Peggy’s summerhouse? (Incontinence – or at least use of pads - was mooted at one point in the programme?) Or maybe there was and I missed it (I missed other bits first time round ) so perhaps she did have a loo through the day without having to walk across the garden to get to one?
This is of course, part the problem of such ‘documentaries’ ... we see edited snippets – it leaves more questions than it maybe answers .... my gut feel after my initial discomfort was this raised more awareness (concern) about how much information and support carers are given than anything else .......
The BBC website describes the situation as ‘a task not dissimilar to managing a teenage daughter’. BBC’s words or Phil and Sue’s?
My sympathy to wonderlander and those others affected in the family if the programme did not send out whatever message they had hoped. I have admitted before on TP my own falling foul of the media (non-dementia issue) and feeling grossly misrepresented – not to mention judged by some of the audience it reached for my motives alone. On the other hand, our willingness to allow people into our lives .... to publish and edit the material the media take from us through film or words .... as they see fit does set us up for ‘critique’ and I think that has to be accepted. That in itself is a valuable lesson Phil and Sue have given. I do applaud them for their bravery in that alone.
And of course, every empathy with the daughter – in terms of another one here who has openly admitted my relationship with my mother was difficult before she became so vulnerable through dementia and I felt an overwhelming urge to love and protect her ..... and finally enjoyed that back ten-fold.
I do hope we will get some up-dates ... if not through a ‘follow-up’ on TV – we might get to learn of Peggy through wonderlander posting here? A remarkable lady .... can’t help but smile just thinking of her enjoying her dancing ...... long may it continue ....
Regards, Karen, x
I had intended responding last night to share my reflections on the part of Phil and Sue (one of whom I assume is wonderlander, if not one of their daughters? – names available on the BBC website for anyone to see - not breaking any confidences). After reflecting sometime and re-watching some of the programme because it had moved me so much I found I was becoming more concerned for Peggy’s family than her ..... but the thread had been temporarily removed.
How much advice had they been given about possible prognosis/potential for steep declines in Peggy’s ability/legal matters which may have affect themselves in the future as well as Peggy? I noted Sue had mentioned the ‘granny annexe’ to the consultant ..... why didn’t he step in and offer OT assessment for their plans? (Sorry, that’s me doing my usual blue-sky thinking about how dementia care should be!
) Little things – like – why was there not a ramp to the ... errrm .... ‘summerhouse’ (not quite sure what to call it?) ... any sudden change in mobility catered for without change instead of those steps? .... why was there an en suite in the sleeping area – but not in Peggy’s summerhouse? (Incontinence – or at least use of pads - was mooted at one point in the programme?) Or maybe there was and I missed it (I missed other bits first time round ) so perhaps she did have a loo through the day without having to walk across the garden to get to one? This is of course, part the problem of such ‘documentaries’ ... we see edited snippets – it leaves more questions than it maybe answers .... my gut feel after my initial discomfort was this raised more awareness (concern) about how much information and support carers are given than anything else .......
The BBC website describes the situation as ‘a task not dissimilar to managing a teenage daughter’. BBC’s words or Phil and Sue’s?
My sympathy to wonderlander and those others affected in the family if the programme did not send out whatever message they had hoped. I have admitted before on TP my own falling foul of the media (non-dementia issue) and feeling grossly misrepresented – not to mention judged by some of the audience it reached for my motives alone. On the other hand, our willingness to allow people into our lives .... to publish and edit the material the media take from us through film or words .... as they see fit does set us up for ‘critique’ and I think that has to be accepted. That in itself is a valuable lesson Phil and Sue have given. I do applaud them for their bravery in that alone.
And of course, every empathy with the daughter – in terms of another one here who has openly admitted my relationship with my mother was difficult before she became so vulnerable through dementia and I felt an overwhelming urge to love and protect her ..... and finally enjoyed that back ten-fold.
I do hope we will get some up-dates ... if not through a ‘follow-up’ on TV – we might get to learn of Peggy through wonderlander posting here? A remarkable lady .... can’t help but smile just thinking of her enjoying her dancing ...... long may it continue ....
Regards, Karen, x
I would guess that the garden room wouldn't be able to have a wc in it or it would become a dwelling and as such they wouldn't have got planning permission for it.
I will confess that I seem to have run out of sympathy when it comes to dementia care for my Mum. I have done it all before and now find that I can't cope with another round after what happened last time. I do all the wrong things as I react to Mum pressing my buttons. I tried compassionate communication and got told to **** off. At least Peggy's daughter can still have a laugh and giggle with her mum.
I will confess that I seem to have run out of sympathy when it comes to dementia care for my Mum. I have done it all before and now find that I can't cope with another round after what happened last time. I do all the wrong things as I react to Mum pressing my buttons. I tried compassionate communication and got told to **** off. At least Peggy's daughter can still have a laugh and giggle with her mum.
I plucked up courage to watch it tonight and like other comments about this film I cringed at the behaviour of the daughter, perhaps due to lack of knowledge about the disease. Yes the family where very brave to take part in this documentary. But where was the understanding of dementia, respect, dignity and compassion, putting her mother down, arguing, critising, trying to reason with her. There was no mention of involvement of social workers / alzheimers support. Was the annex separate from her bedroom/bathroom it looked like it. From my experience I feel Peggy would be better off in a semi-secure care home nearby her family or near the town she was familiar with, where she would be cared for by trained staff and still encouraged to be as independent as she could with care coming in when required. Her daughter and son-in-law could relax together as they had planned, knowing she was being looked after. Despite the families good intentions I feel that eventually the Peggy will need to be moved to a better environment suited to her needs. I`m sorry to sound negative. The dementia didn`t upset me at all, but as I said I didn`t find this programme useful or typical and maybe to others watching it who have no experience of dementia puzzling.
No one wants to go into a home nor consider moving their loved ones, but at the end of the day "what`s best for Mum/Dad etc" has to be top of the agenda. Their safety,security and everyday living tasks are drifting away and they need professional support and support from the family. Love hurts. It hurts to let your loved ones go. But you are only handing their care over to someone else, you don`t stop visiting, loving them. You are not a failure if you do move them into the care system.
Heather
No one wants to go into a home nor consider moving their loved ones, but at the end of the day "what`s best for Mum/Dad etc" has to be top of the agenda. Their safety,security and everyday living tasks are drifting away and they need professional support and support from the family. Love hurts. It hurts to let your loved ones go. But you are only handing their care over to someone else, you don`t stop visiting, loving them. You are not a failure if you do move them into the care system.
Heather
I hope wonderlander isn't put off by the criticism of some people and will continue posting. I'd be fascinated to see they get on. Also how they came to be involved in the programme and what they felt about the experience.
So many parts of this programme were familiar to me, the arguing over each little item to be taken when she moved, caring for someone you had a difficult relationship with, trying to reason with them because you still want to treat them as a person or perhaps the person you knew rather than senile. I make these mistakes, I struggle with it, I don't know how to react a lot of the time or the best thing to do. Some of the professionals don't seem much less clueless than me!
My mum also goes out most days, mainly just to shops or visiting people who she thinks need attention more than her (that scene with the old man was also very familiar). That's a good thing isn't it, getting out and about? Although admittedly she's usually in by tea-time.
I brought up the possibility of going into a care home to my mum, it's the closest she's come to hitting me. If an old person doesn't want to go into care and wants to remain "independent" what do you do, force them? Isn't keeping people out of care (if they don't want to go) seen as the optimum these days? I totally sympathise with this stance, although we're not in the later stages and as people ominously or smugly observe, "they'll learn". Most of you seem quite pro-home, my mum used to visit people and also work in homes as a cleaner, she said they were mainly horrid places with the patients sat there like zombies where she'd never want to go. Where are all these great homes?
So many parts of this programme were familiar to me, the arguing over each little item to be taken when she moved, caring for someone you had a difficult relationship with, trying to reason with them because you still want to treat them as a person or perhaps the person you knew rather than senile. I make these mistakes, I struggle with it, I don't know how to react a lot of the time or the best thing to do. Some of the professionals don't seem much less clueless than me!
My mum also goes out most days, mainly just to shops or visiting people who she thinks need attention more than her (that scene with the old man was also very familiar). That's a good thing isn't it, getting out and about? Although admittedly she's usually in by tea-time.
I brought up the possibility of going into a care home to my mum, it's the closest she's come to hitting me. If an old person doesn't want to go into care and wants to remain "independent" what do you do, force them? Isn't keeping people out of care (if they don't want to go) seen as the optimum these days? I totally sympathise with this stance, although we're not in the later stages and as people ominously or smugly observe, "they'll learn". Most of you seem quite pro-home, my mum used to visit people and also work in homes as a cleaner, she said they were mainly horrid places with the patients sat there like zombies where she'd never want to go. Where are all these great homes?
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SO DO I, but
WONDERLANDER
if you are out there and reading this
PLEASE COME BACK with a different IDENTIFICATION on TP
Reason I say that is advertisers KNOW WHAT IS WHAT. Why do adverts work ? I have no idea, but they must work because we still have adverts.
Now you have appeared on TV you will be judged by that.
PLEASE COME BACK as a new ID and laugh, cry, shout, rant and use TP to the very best of your ability...........PLEASE
I agree with what has been said on two points. Wonderlander do come back under a different ID and I too would like to know where all these great homes are. I have actually met someone whose father is in one but we are in Herts and it is in Tamworth.
Tre
Tre
I'm sorry to step in with a heavy hand, (to mix metaphors) but it's actually against TP's terms and conditions to post under two identities.
Wonderlander is very welcome to continue posting on TP, and I hope she does so and feels comfortable on the site.
Wonderlander is very welcome to continue posting on TP, and I hope she does so and feels comfortable on the site.
If Wonderlander does return ( and I can totally understand if she wouldn't want to) I would like apologise for falling for the slant the programme makers wanted to put on the programme.
There is no way I would have coped with my Mum in a similar situation and I would have been organising a search party if Mum had gone AWOL due to me having over reacted. Wonderlander is brave to even try to cope, I certainly wouldn't have.
Long may Peggy enjoy her dancing.
There is no way I would have coped with my Mum in a similar situation and I would have been organising a search party if Mum had gone AWOL due to me having over reacted. Wonderlander is brave to even try to cope, I certainly wouldn't have.
Long may Peggy enjoy her dancing.
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MY SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR SUGGESTING SOMETHING AGAINST THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF TP
Thanks for your input Deborah; really appreciate input of this kind to keep TP safe for us all. My suggestion was done with only the very best intentions, however. MY MISTAKE and again I sincerely apologise to ALL READERS.
I wanted to share my heartfelt thoughts on the documentary but the thread with all the varied and interesting points of view disappeared from the forum and I was angry beyond belief. The thread is back again now and I am glad about this although I feel lost now regarding my own thoughts.
I can only say I hope there are more excellent documentaries like this on TV in the future.
I think this review says it all for me and much more eloquently;
http://tinyurl.com/7rfe7ko
I can only say I hope there are more excellent documentaries like this on TV in the future.
I think this review says it all for me and much more eloquently;
http://tinyurl.com/7rfe7ko
" This whole hideous inverted childhood" . What a good way to describe dementia. When I feel at the end of my patience with my nusband I try to count to ten and think would I be so hard on a little child standing before me. It usually helps but melts my heart a bit.
Tre
Tre
Having seen the programme on Play Again mode and read most of the posts on here that followed its broadcast, some of them even more revealing and thought provoking than the broadcast itself, I must admit that the part that really stood out for me was the role of the professional/consultant.
Before she went in. Peggy was adamant that she was going to have her say. It seemed to me that the consultant was aware the he overawed Peggy and spoke to her accordingly.
It was quite obviouis she had not got a clue what he was talking about and she just gazed into his eyes as if hypnotised.
Until that meeting with the consultant, I was lining up with a lot of the posters on here to give Sue a good slap. The turning point came when, almost as an aside, the consultant asked how Sue was coping. The laugh she gave and the body language that accompanied it showed that she was grateful for the question and then disappointed that her answer was not picked up by the professional as being in need of a long chat on how she actually was coping.
Her worry and concern was highlighted at that time and was not identified.
Before she went in. Peggy was adamant that she was going to have her say. It seemed to me that the consultant was aware the he overawed Peggy and spoke to her accordingly.
It was quite obviouis she had not got a clue what he was talking about and she just gazed into his eyes as if hypnotised.
Until that meeting with the consultant, I was lining up with a lot of the posters on here to give Sue a good slap. The turning point came when, almost as an aside, the consultant asked how Sue was coping. The laugh she gave and the body language that accompanied it showed that she was grateful for the question and then disappointed that her answer was not picked up by the professional as being in need of a long chat on how she actually was coping.
Her worry and concern was highlighted at that time and was not identified.
Gosh, Grommit. I’m glad you’ve brought that up. You may have read my comment that I was concerned there was no offer of input from the consultation (like OT support about the annexe plans).
I have been discussing the programme today with some fellow carers and ex-carers – all of whom have been moved/disturbed by it. (I am going back to the word disturbed, yes – because that’s where I still am). I mentioned I had seen Prof Clive Ballard was first in the credits, followed by AS when one person asked ‘Was that not Prof Clive Ballard in the programme?’ (i.e. Peggy’s consultant). Well, it’s a remarkable likeness if it wasn’t!!!!!
Well, this has left me more perplexed. Another observation I had had (having watched the thing 3 times now because I am obsessing about what it is I can’t put my finger on that IS disturbing me) is that the consultant told Peggy outright she now had Alzheimer’s as well as her ‘other dementia’. Now this has been discussed many times on TP – the should we tell them/not tell them? debate - so if that was Prof Ballard ... hmmmmmm- poor Peggy having said in the taxi on the way to her consultation ‘I just don’t want it to get any worse’ .... was blissful ignorance of her latest diagnosis not better for her? If that was indeed Prof Ballard .... is that AS’s stance on 'telling'?
Oh I dunno. I’m still trying to work out how two separate ‘annexes’ – each with different facilities are really workable and how Peggy will manage in the depths of winter to-ing and fro-ing across the garden and remembering her keys for each .... not my worry, of course ... but somehow, SOMETHING is really disturbing me and if anyone cares to suggest what it is feel free to tell me (by PM if necessary!) Yes, I do get obsessive about some things and dementia care is of course one of them.
I have wondered – not being the greatest TV fan – and as I think Hollycat mentioned previously in the thread – just what was the objective behind making the programme? Perhaps if I understood that things might fall better into place? I gather ‘Wonderland’ is a series of documentaries on different issues? Does it have a general objective? And who suggests the topics to be covered? Anyone can enlighten me there, again grateful for any response.
I can’t see what good or raising awareness has come out of it – just ‘upset’ through those involved being left wide open for criticism and losing anonymity???? I hope if Phil and Sue ever read this they have a sense of the programme having ‘done some good’ and that it has been worth their while – but at the minute, I can’t see it for myself.
Karen, x
I have been discussing the programme today with some fellow carers and ex-carers – all of whom have been moved/disturbed by it. (I am going back to the word disturbed, yes – because that’s where I still am). I mentioned I had seen Prof Clive Ballard was first in the credits, followed by AS when one person asked ‘Was that not Prof Clive Ballard in the programme?’ (i.e. Peggy’s consultant). Well, it’s a remarkable likeness if it wasn’t!!!!!
Well, this has left me more perplexed. Another observation I had had (having watched the thing 3 times now because I am obsessing about what it is I can’t put my finger on that IS disturbing me
) is that the consultant told Peggy outright she now had Alzheimer’s as well as her ‘other dementia’. Now this has been discussed many times on TP – the should we tell them/not tell them? debate - so if that was Prof Ballard ... hmmmmmm- poor Peggy having said in the taxi on the way to her consultation ‘I just don’t want it to get any worse’ .... was blissful ignorance of her latest diagnosis not better for her? If that was indeed Prof Ballard .... is that AS’s stance on 'telling'?Oh I dunno. I’m still trying to work out how two separate ‘annexes’ – each with different facilities are really workable and how Peggy will manage in the depths of winter to-ing and fro-ing across the garden and remembering her keys for each .... not my worry, of course ... but somehow, SOMETHING is really disturbing me and if anyone cares to suggest what it is feel free to tell me (by PM if necessary!) Yes, I do get obsessive about some things
and dementia care is of course one of them.I have wondered – not being the greatest TV fan – and as I think Hollycat mentioned previously in the thread – just what was the objective behind making the programme?
Perhaps if I understood that things might fall better into place? I gather ‘Wonderland’ is a series of documentaries on different issues? Does it have a general objective? And who suggests the topics to be covered? Anyone can enlighten me there, again grateful for any response. I can’t see what good or raising awareness has come out of it – just ‘upset’ through those involved being left wide open for criticism and losing anonymity???? I hope if Phil and Sue ever read this they have a sense of the programme having ‘done some good’ and that it has been worth their while – but at the minute, I can’t see it for myself.
Karen, x
I think it was useful...
As I said earlier, it gave us as a family an opportunity to discuss mums current situation and how we make her residential setting work with us re visiting, outings etc, and it also allowed us to revisit what it was like when she lived with us. Now that we are all calm and sane again it was useful to have the program as a reference point... My kids are 13 and 16 - my son is frightened to visit his gran, as he finds her scary and dosnt like it when she's rude to me. My daughter basically ignores her as she also finds her behaviour bizzarre. I was glad the program showed that other people have dementia, that other carers go through exactly what we did, and get stressed and tired.
My mum has Alzheimers like Peggy and is a handful and rude (like Peggy could be), but she also had psychotic behaviour (seeing people and paranoia) which I think if Peggy had, Sue and her husband couldnt not have coped with.
I think they have done a good thing letting the cameras in, and am glad of it - it helped us. My son is now keen to see his gran, and we are having her out on Mothers Day.
As I said earlier, it gave us as a family an opportunity to discuss mums current situation and how we make her residential setting work with us re visiting, outings etc, and it also allowed us to revisit what it was like when she lived with us. Now that we are all calm and sane again it was useful to have the program as a reference point... My kids are 13 and 16 - my son is frightened to visit his gran, as he finds her scary and dosnt like it when she's rude to me. My daughter basically ignores her as she also finds her behaviour bizzarre. I was glad the program showed that other people have dementia, that other carers go through exactly what we did, and get stressed and tired.
My mum has Alzheimers like Peggy and is a handful and rude (like Peggy could be), but she also had psychotic behaviour (seeing people and paranoia) which I think if Peggy had, Sue and her husband couldnt not have coped with.
I think they have done a good thing letting the cameras in, and am glad of it - it helped us. My son is now keen to see his gran, and we are having her out on Mothers Day.
I have eventually got around to watching the programme and am worried that I wasnt as "disturbed" by it as I thought I would be from this thread.
I guess when we watch these programmes we tend to relate them to our own experiences. My greatest shock was Peggy's freedom to come and go great distances on her own. Shocked that she managed, but what we probably didnt see was the stress is must have caused Sue & Phil worrying about her.
The annexe they built struck me as trying to provide the best they could for Peggy. When we were buying a house for mum to live with us some of the annexes which I thought were great would have been a disaster. Even the purpose-built one we had constructed for her had many design flaws once the reality of her living with us set in.
I am also very loathe to comment on a situation of several months represented by a one hour TV programme, which will obviously have been edited for entertaining TV viewing.
To me Peggie looked well cared for and seemed to be enjoying her life - who could wish for more.
I guess when we watch these programmes we tend to relate them to our own experiences. My greatest shock was Peggy's freedom to come and go great distances on her own. Shocked that she managed, but what we probably didnt see was the stress is must have caused Sue & Phil worrying about her.
The annexe they built struck me as trying to provide the best they could for Peggy. When we were buying a house for mum to live with us some of the annexes which I thought were great would have been a disaster. Even the purpose-built one we had constructed for her had many design flaws once the reality of her living with us set in.
I am also very loathe to comment on a situation of several months represented by a one hour TV programme, which will obviously have been edited for entertaining TV viewing.
To me Peggie looked well cared for and seemed to be enjoying her life - who could wish for more.
