Think it may be time for a care home but what about mums savings?

[Gill40]

Good evening, I have not posted for a long time, but mum has deteriorated so much in the last few weeks we are no longer sure she can live alone. She no longer feeds herself, fruit and biscuits seem the norm, however, we give her dinner more often than through the week, her hallucinations have reached the point that the house load of people that always seem to be present do not go away anymore when we tell mum they aren't there, she has stated getting angry about it, yelling us to shut up and so on. Her hallucinations were upsetting her and so the doctor at the memory clinic put her on mild tranquillisers. They seem to ave taken the edge off. She in a little incontinent so ave bought her pants to wear and she seems ok most of the time. I fear that me and my sister can no longer cope alone and maybe need to look for a home, she also wanders some, but she lives on a park home site and tends to stay along her road, but just lately tries o get in next door instead of her place. We are worried, probably selfishly, about mums savings, she has told us many times she does not want the money my dad worked so hard or "wasted" on care. She has substantial savings, is there anyway we can squirrel some away as she wants o leave it to the grand kids, and a little for us! Sorry to have rambled on, there is so much more going on, but I can't seem to get t all down, feeling so tired this week as been over to mum everyday this week cos she won't answer the phone when we call her o take her meds! Sorry again, but any comments, gratefully received x

 

[angecmc]

Hi, sorry to hear you have got to this point, it is so hard isnt it, my Mum has been in permanent care now for 8 weeks, still feel guilty but know she is now safe and well cared for. We still havent had the financial assessment, but it will happen, mum and dad have joint account and are under the £14000 threshold, but I know we are not to try and squirrel anything away, they will check bank statements etc and if anything looks suspect, you would be in trouble, so sorry it seems so unfair. Good luck with everything x

Ange

 

[Noorza]

Sorry I suspect now it is too late to protect your mum's assets the time to do it is before they get ill. It is unfair when people who haven't saved get the same care but I fear you could get into trouble, Might be worth getting some legal advise first.

 

[kingmidas1962]

I found myself in the same position - my dad went into care and mum moved out of the family home into assisted housing. The family home has been sold and they are now both self funding for their care.

I try not to be too bitter about it but it does seem so unfair ... I dont know what mum and dad thought would happen when they got old ... I guess in a perfect world we all think we'll live healthily into our old age and die peacefully in our sleep ... but its made me aware of the plans and preparations I need to make for myself.

I would seek some legal advice I'd definitely seek advice though - if there is a way round it though I've yet to hear of it sadly ....

 

[nicoise]

Dear Gill40,

Sorry to hear about your Mum, and her decline.

Unfortunately those who have been fortunate or prudent enough to have savings above the LA funding threshold of £23,500 do have to pay for their own care.

If your Mum's savings are given away when it is known she might need to pay for care, such as after a diagnosis of dementia, then it could be looked upon as "deprivation of assets" - a deliberate avoidance of having to use those funds to pay for care.

If she has previously made gifts for birthdays or Christmas then that level of gift is acceptable - but giving away a lot or all of her money will not be.

If you do a search for deprivation of assets here on TP, or on a search engine, you will find more information.

 

[Gill40]

Yes, I realise we can't protect all of mums assets, but all we want is for her to be looked after and comfortable, so will go on the self funded route, her assets are over the £23500 threshold so I understand her finances won't be looked into so will leave them as is as don't want to get into trouble! Next step, find a home and try not o feel too guilty about it! Thank you xxx

 

[Noorza]

Yes, I realise we can't protect all of mums assets, but all we want is for her to be looked after and comfortable, so will go on the self funded route, her assets are over the £23500 threshold so I understand her finances won't be looked into so will leave them as is as don't want to get into trouble! Next step, find a home and try not o feel too guilty about it! Thank you xxx

Guilt is the carers curse. Just ask yourself if what you are doing is in mum's best interest and ditch the guilt.

Best wishes.

 

[mrjelly]

My Dad's so-called "financial advisors" tried to sell him a scheme to put his house into a trust, which would avoid the need to wait for probate when he died and they also claimed "may also avoid the value of your home being included in a local authority means assessment for care home fees".

Later on in the brochure they admitted that "if an agency or local authority can prove that one of the reasons for your gift was to obtain assistance with fees [...], the value of the home can be recovered". (i.e. it could be regarded as "deprivation of asssets". ) I'm not sure who has to prove what to whom here - it might just be the LA drawing their own conclusions!

It looked like we would be gambling on a degree of negligence by the LA in recovering their fees, in order to see any benefit. The only people who could be sure of their money would be the financial advisors and solicitors when they took their fees for setting the trust up.

 

[Varandas]

Sorry I can not add anything practical, but seek professional advise.
Here we have to account for anything and everything. Perfect accounts to the Justice Civile.
It is not fair - and I agree about the plans and preparations we have to make for ourselves too.

 

[Aquamanda]

I am also in the same position; I don't think there is any legal way of squirrelling away money. All my mother's savings and house sale money are going into her care - so far about £75,0000, and the fees just keep increasing so it's a nightmare.
The only thing I could suggest is if your mother has a very large amount of money, you could think about buying one of those insurance policies that covers care fees if you pay out a large lump sum.
I did not choose to do this. It is a gamble - for example someone in my mothers CH bought a policy at great expense and then passed away a couple of months later so the family lost all that money. On the other hand, if he had carried on living and needed care, they would have had the fees covered by the policy.
I guess it depends how much money she has - if it really is a very big amount, then it may be worth putting something like £200,000 or whatever into an insurance policy to offset the fees and then you would know the rest of the money would not be used up on care fees.

 

[Gill40]

Had a long chat with family members today, and know thus is the best thing for mum, so she is safe and cared for properly. So we will now start the process of looking around, I have one recommendation already but will chat with her nurse from the mental health clinic too, mum is 82 and has over £100k plus her property, do will look to use the property money first for self funding and go from there. I am so grateful for this forum, as can talk to people who are going through the same things and understand, thank you all xxx

 

[Rooley]

Hi Gill

Is there anyway you can rent the property out to get an income from it to support the care, and make up the balance from Mum's savings?

My Mum was the same, horrified that we would have to use the savings she and my Dad built up to give her the care she needed when she needed it most. It does seem so unfair, and now Mum has gone (she lived with us, and never made it into a care home, she deteriorated so quickly after a stint in hospital) and we are in the middle of sorting her estate out I wish she'd have just blown the lot on living a fun filled life while she could.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful for what she's left to us as a family, but her dementia robbed her... in so many ways.

Use the money to give her what she needs, she may not agree with it but the pressure on you and your family is great enough without money adding to it.

xx

 

[FifiMo]

Gill,

As your mum is self funding then there may be more options available to you than just a care home. There are good private sheltered housing schemes around for example. My aunt lives in one of these in her own little apartment which gives her the sense of independence but everything is done for her. They don't have 'carers' (they don't like the word as it infers they are being looked after). What she has is cleaners that come in every morning and spend some time with her. Her meals are all provided for her in a central dining are/social gathering area. My aunt has lunch then lingers down there with the other people where there are activities going on, until dinner time where she has her evening meal then retreats back to someone's apartment to watch some tv before going to bed. Their laundry is done for them and delivered and put away for them too. The interesting thing about the place is that the apartments were originally sold but because of the slump in the housing market, many of them are available to rent so it makes it an affordable half way step to a care home. I have to say that it is one happy bunch of people there, with all sorts of medical conditions, including dementia. The power of the group is quite evident especially when someone needs help. One example was an old man who's wife had terminal cancer. Everyone agreed when they moved in that he could bring his little dog with him. The group looked after that dog for him whilst he sat with his wife. They took it out for a walk, played with it, kidnapped it so they could have it to themselves for a while! LOL. After his wife died, the man could have returned to his own home, but the folks persuaded him to stay, little dog as well!

If that is not for your mum, then you have the option to buy in some care for her perhaps.

I'm not saying a home isn't right for your mum, just that there are alternatives that might, over time, let her have her wish of leaving some money to her relatives as well.

Fiona

 

[Witzend]

I am also in the same position; I don't think there is any legal way of squirrelling away money. All my mother's savings and house sale money are going into her care - so far about £75,0000, and the fees just keep increasing so it's a nightmare.
The only thing I could suggest is if your mother has a very large amount of money, you could think about buying one of those insurance policies that covers care fees if you pay out a large lump sum.
I did not choose to do this. It is a gamble - for example someone in my mothers CH bought a policy at great expense and then passed away a couple of months later so the family lost all that money. On the other hand, if he had carried on living and needed care, they would have had the fees covered by the policy.
I guess it depends how much money she has - if it really is a very big amount, then it may be worth putting something like £200,000 or whatever into an insurance policy to offset the fees and then you would know the rest of the money would not be used up on care fees.

We went down the annuity route, or rather my sister who had p of a with my brother did. My mother was already 89 when she went into the CH, but since she comes from a very long lived family my sister thought it prudent. And just as well, since she's still here over 6 years later.

It did seem a huge chunk of cash at the time, and I couldn't help feeling grieved, not really for us but for my mother, who would have been so appalled. She had always looked after her savings so carefully, and said over and over, 'I'm only saving it for all of you.'
We had urged her over and over to spend more on herself, but I honestly think that in the later years there was nothing she really wanted. But I am so glad we took her on holiday with us a few times while she was still able to enjoy it.. I well remember saying to OH before a rather special holiday we took her on, 'if we don't do it now...' And it was less than a year later that she really started showing signs of dementia.